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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    Dont know why youre talking about heaven and hell asif its predisposed and something thats never going to change, yes fate is written so many times but a dua is very powerful and if someone wanted to live longer allah could change the time for his death, we all have free will.
    Do you know what freewill means?
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    Dont know why youre talking about heaven and hell asif its predisposed and something thats never going to change, yes fate is written so many times but a dua is very powerful and if someone wanted to live longer allah could change the time for his death, we all have free will.

    In relation to your point about shirk if they were clearly unknowledgeable then allah will judge them accordingly everyone is treated fair, just become someone is born not a non muslim household, and does a non believer doesnt mean they will go to hell. Allah will judge everyone accordingly.
    Do you agree that you have a much higher chance of entering heaven if you live in a certain country or community?

    Some people are born in a position that they will find it easier to practice than others (e.g son of a scholar on Saudi vs a muslim living alone in a non-Muslim country) that alone makes God unjust in my opinion. Life isn't fair but isn't God supposed to be? But I agree everyone has free will to join the deen (eventhough millions will never hear about Islam...ever)

    So, people in North Korea who worship Kim Jong un could go to heaven? (Allah is starting to sound....humane)
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    (Original post by Cobalt_)
    Believing in something without evidence seems pretty idiotic to me.
    Theres evidence all around you, for you to think something like atoms and the universe came from nothing is "idiotic", there had to be an entity and diety which powers outside our comphrension in order for anything to be made.

    The scientific theory in which many of you are found upon states this about casuality, everything needs a cause and this causes an effect, something had to create the atoms protons etc before the big bang. It didnt just pop out of nothing.

    The very air we breath the way our body is so complex, and theres no way we evolved from monkeys, because darwins theory along with evolutionary theory believes we adapt and survive by passing on desired characteristics, this very thinking process of questioning where we came from why were here serves no purpose and in fact leads to many people commting suicide over decisions such as this. Allah has stated each person is born with an innate belief in God and has always been there.
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    (Original post by macsalaama)
    *sigh
    My original comment

    I just gave you authentic Sunni hadith which proves my statement above. I did not say Sunni* Islam today allows it but it was allowed at a point in time. Are you telling me that is incorrect ?

    Well, isn't it odd that a religion calls for the death of people who only utter words that go against it?
    Essentially what you said before is that if those of us who left Islam lived in a "real" Islamic State the punishment for leaving Islam is death. That's pretty messed up no matter how you look at it.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If the conditions are met it doesn't seem messed up to me and you demonstrated clear lack of knowledge on how the sharia works And no Mutah was never allowed ever, nor was it practised by the salaf those shia believes are based on fabrications.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    What happens if someone dies upon shirk and doesn't know about Islam?
    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Tbf, some scholars say that if people don't know about the deen or have a limited understanding of the deen they will be judged "fairly"...
    You've answered your own question.
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    (Original post by boredasf)
    I know a lot of muslims who are now ex-muslims, but i think that the majority of them have left islam because they want to 'fit in'.
    As in thinking for ourselves and not praying to something when there's no concrete evidence for its existence? Yeah, I just want to fit in.

    (Original post by theBranicAc)
    your basically insulting over billions of people who belive in a reiligon
    You shouldn't criticise something because you might offend someone? If we use that logic then we mustn't criticise anything at all.
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    (Original post by boredasf)

    I know a lot of muslims who are now ex-muslims, but i think that the majority of them have left islam because they want to 'fit in'.
    No, most of them have left because they see that it's made up and doesn't make sense. You can ask the ex-Muslims on TSR's Ex-Muslim Society thread and they will confirm this.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Do you agree that you have a much higher chance of entering heaven if you live in a certain country or community?

    Some people are born in a position that they will find it easier to practice than others (e.g son of a scholar on Saudi vs a muslim living alone in a non-Muslim country) that alone makes God unjust in my opinion. Life isn't fair but isn't God supposed to be? But I agree everyone has free will to join the deen (eventhough millions will never hear about Islam...ever)

    So, people in North Korea who worship Kim Jong un could go to heaven? (Allah is starting to sound....humane)
    Yes they can you know why when it comes to the day of judgment thats for Allah to decide, i read somewhere and i dont want to quote whether it was the quran or hadith, but for those who are uneducated on the matter they will be asked to follow a prophet on the day and should they agree that would be enough, but some would still be ignorant enough to decline.
    Point is everyone is treated fair and accordingly the example of the saudi person if i give you a car its upto you to decide whether or not you drive it, islam is all about good attention so even if this person was religions if he didnt have the right intention he wouldnt be rewarded everything should be done for the sake of allah.

    Finally before we born we were all asked yes even those who are non beliefers whether we want to be angels or humans, we chose humans because of the chance of entering jannah, and paradise. And this will be made aware on the day we are resurrected.
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    Theres evidence all around you, for you to think something like atoms and the universe came from nothing is "idiotic", there had to be an entity and diety which powers outside our comphrension in order for anything to be made.

    The scientific theory in which many of you are found upon states this about casuality, everything needs a cause and this causes an effect, something had to create the atoms protons etc before the big bang. It didnt just pop out of nothing.

    The very air we breath the way our body is so complex, and theres no way we evolved from monkeys, because darwins theory along with evolutionary theory believes we adapt and survive by passing on desired characteristics, this very thinking process of questioning where we came from why were here serves no purpose and in fact leads to many people commting suicide over decisions such as this. Allah has stated each person is born with an innate belief in God and has always been there.
    I was going to take you seriously but then you said we evolved from monkeys...
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    Theres evidence all around you, for you to think something like atoms and the universe came from nothing is "idiotic", there had to be an entity and diety which powers outside our comphrension in order for anything to be made.

    The scientific theory in which many of you are found upon states this about casuality, everything needs a cause and this causes an effect, something had to create the atoms protons etc before the big bang. It didnt just pop out of nothing.

    The very air we breath the way our body is so complex, and theres no way we evolved from monkeys, because darwins theory along with evolutionary theory believes we adapt and survive by passing on desired characteristics, this very thinking process of questioning where we came from why were here serves no purpose and in fact leads to many people commting suicide over decisions such as this. Allah has stated each person is born with an innate belief in God and has always been there.
    Strawman, no one says the Big Bang came from nothing, not even scientists, it came from a singularity and the origin of that is currently unknown although it may have always existed. The bottom line is that you don't have a shred of evidence for God's existence, let alone the one specific to Islam instead of the thousands of gods that humans have believed in.

    Evolution is true whether you like it or not, we didn't evolve from monkeys, we share a common ancestor with them. Please make sure you know the basics of evolution before trying to debunk it.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No, most of them have left because they see that it's made up and doesn't make sense. You can ask the ex-Muslims on TSR's Ex-Muslim Society thread and they will confirm this.
    alright luv.
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    (Original post by Legendary Quest)
    I was going to take you seriously but then you said we evolved from monkeys...
    You obviously knew i was referring to apes, dont why you try and sound pedantic.
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    (Original post by Legendary Quest)
    Do you know what freewill means?
    you do realise that just because something is written doesnt mean you dont have free will.... No one is forcing you to do anything now, you have free will however God knows what you are going to do what you would do will do etc.
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    (Original post by Legendary Quest)
    As in thinking for ourselves and not praying to something when there's no concrete evidence for its existence? Yeah, I just want to fit in.
    haha okay, I understand.
    I have nothing against those who have left Islam. I have friends who are ex-muslims, and it's none of my business what other people believe.
    I myself am hardly a practicing Muslim lol
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Strawman, no one says the Big Bang came from nothing, not even scientists, it came from a singularity and the origin of that is currently unknown although it may have always existed. The bottom line is that you don't have a shred of evidence for God's existence, let alone the one specific to Islam instead of the thousands of gods that humans have believed in.

    Evolution is true whether you like it or not, we didn't evolve from monkeys, we share a common ancestor with them. Please make sure you know the basics of evolution before trying to debunk it.
    That makes no sense and contradicts science itself and the belief about causality, what created the singularity it cant just appear out of nothing... Obviously the point i was making is that you believe we evolved from a common ancestor with apes yet this entire argument goes against the basis of evolution and natural selection, it has no benefit and in fact hinders many people leading to deaths of many.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    You've answered your own question.
    إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَٰلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاءُ وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَىٰ إِثْمًا عَظِيمًاSurely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.
    An-nisa 4:48

    So if some one commits shirk and doesn't seek forgiveness they can still go to heaven?
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    You obviously knew i was referring to apes, dont why you try and sound pedantic.
    We have a common ancestor.

    Evidently, you do not know the science behind evolution. As always, if you don't understand something you give your God all the credit. Go and study some more and you may find that everything can be explained scientifically.
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    (Original post by CAPTAINSHAZAM)
    That makes no sense and contradicts science itself and the belief about causality, what created the singularity it cant just appear out of nothing... Obviously the point i was making is that you believe we evolved from a common ancestor with apes yet this entire argument goes against the basis of evolution and natural selection, it has no benefit and in fact hinders many people leading to deaths of many.
    It does not contradict itself at all. The singularity may be eternal, so always existing instead of appearing out of nothing. If you say God can be eternal then so can matter/energy.

    No it doesn't, all animals evolved from a common ancestor. This is completely in line with Darwinian evolution and is supported by all the evidence. Seriously, don't make yourself look ignorant by getting the basics of Darwin's theory wrong.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No, most of them have left because they see that it's made up and doesn't make sense. You can ask the ex-Muslims on TSR's Ex-Muslim Society thread and they will confirm this.
    By that logic why is islam the fastest growing religion in the world, why are MC working men and women becoming muslims, if they are knowledgeable and educated why would they believe in something "made up".
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَٰلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاءُ وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَىٰ إِثْمًا عَظِيمًاSurely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.
    An-nisa 4:48

    So if some one commits shirk and doesn't seek forgiveness they can still go to heaven?
    If they haven't been exposed to Islam, yes.
 
 
 
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