Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Why are these things proof of the existence and divinity of the Christian god, specifically? Not everyone who died on a cross is a god, you know. It was a standard punishment at that time in that part of the world.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_...ons_of_Genesis

    Enjoy the slow death of your grey matter.
    I'm not gonna read a whole damn wiki page. Feel free to summarise it for me..

    Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by misslovinggrace)
    But God isn't a superstition.

    If you're so sure that God is not real explain how/ who creates gravity.

    “Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.” - Stephen Hawkin
    That's the worst quote to use for a Theist argument.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by misslovinggrace)
    Tell me where it says that.
    Lmao, are you seriously disputing this when it's common sense? You do know our entire justice system is based on the burden of proof concept.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil...urden_of_proof

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    That's the worst quote to use for a Theist argument.
    Damn it :eek:

    *logs off for the evening*
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PrinceProsperity)
    no. everyone sins, those who believe in God just try not to.
    You're not making any sense. If everyone sins, including theists, then clearly not believing in God does not provide any sort of excuse as by that logic theists wouldn't sin, and by your own admission they do.

    Secondly, any reasonable logic would dictate that's it's actually theists who would desperately try not to sin because of fear of punishment in the afterlife.

    Your very concept of sin is dependent on believing in a moral god. An atheist is therefore extremely unlikely to believe there is such thing as sin.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hydeman)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_...ons_of_Genesis

    Enjoy the slow death of your grey matter.
    You ninja'ed me... :ninja:

    I guess its payback for last time
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    That wasn't a condition. "If" was used to put things into perspective to better explain my point. Alright, what if I said: "God is outside the universe before he created it, before Time and Space existed, hence the law of causation didn't apply due to no laws of physics being evident." Same thing mate.

    Yes, I'm being serious. You're basically saying defeating religion defeats deism. I said nothing about a personal God. God could be thought of as something that just started things. Einstein hated the idea of a personal God but thought the belief on a non-personal deity was needed to explain the universe. Suddenly, according to your logic, Einstein was false simply because religion was false.

    The bible doesn't say the Earth was made 6000 years ago. If you have proof link it.
    Same thing? Not at all. Now you've turned it into a fact - give proof of its unconditional truth (that's what a fact is), and we shall discuss further. Otherwise, it's nothing but a twisted conditional.

    Nice appeal to authority there (which makes little sense). As I said - this is not about the random person randomly believing in a deity (not that it changes anything per se as to the point above). Someone may believe that the Earth was created by a "Dragon God"? Do I need to refer to that when discussing the topic of "God"?

    Read Genesis 5 and 11. As an added bonus, here's the truth that the earth is flat:
    Isaiah 11:12 12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
    Revelation 7:1 1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (I do concede that the Bible is not considered the word of God, though most Christians take it to be as such).
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by PrinceProsperity)
    not really
    Strong argument.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    You're not making any sense. If everyone sins, including theists, then clearly not believing in God does not provide any sort of excuse as by that logic theists wouldn't sin, and by your own admission they do.

    Secondly, any reasonable logic would dictate that's it's actually theists who would desperately try not to sin because of fear of punishment in the afterlife.

    Your very concept of sin is dependent on believing in a moral god. An atheist is therefore extremely unlikely to believe there is such thing as sin.
    The fear of god is the first step to knowing him.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Lmao, are you seriously disputing this when it's common sense? You do know our entire justice system is based on the burden of proof concept.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil...urden_of_proof

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof
    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Why are these things proof of the existence and divinity of the Christian god, specifically? Not everyone who died on a cross is a god, you know. It was a standard punishment at that time in that part of the world.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_...f_GenesisEnjoy the slow death of your grey matter.
    I dont understand why you guys feel I have time to be reading Wiki pages
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    That wasn't a condition. "If" was used to put things into perspective to better explain my point. Alright, what if I said: "God is outside the universe before he created it, before Time and Space existed, hence the law of causation didn't apply due to no laws of physics being evident." Same thing mate.

    Yes, I'm being serious. You're basically saying defeating religion defeats deism. I said nothing about a personal God. God could be thought of as something that just started things. Einstein hated the idea of a personal God but thought the belief on a non-personal deity was needed to explain the universe. Suddenly, according to your logic, Einstein was false simply because religion was false.

    The bible doesn't say the Earth was made 6000 years ago. If you have proof link it.
    Actually, it's not believed that the laws of physics as we know them applied to the singularity either. The origin, if any, of the singularity itself is currently unknown, so trying to invoke God is a futile exercise.

    (Original post by misslovinggrace)
    But God isn't a superstition.

    If you're so sure that God is not real explain how/ who creates gravity.

    “Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.” - Stephen Hawkin
    Why are you assuming there has to be a being that creates gravity?

    Also, I have no idea why you quoted Stephen Hawking, you do know he's an atheist, don't you?
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by misslovinggrace)
    I'm not gonna read a whole damn wiki page. Feel free to summarise it for me..Ain't nobody got time for that.
    The Wikipedia article wasn't meant for you -- it was in response to champ_mc99. :facepalm: The first part of the post was the response to your post:

    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Why are these things proof of the existence and divinity of the Christian god, specifically? Not everyone who died on a cross is a god, you know. It was a standard punishment at that time in that part of the world.
    With comprehension fails as monumental as that, can you blame people for thinking that religionists are not the brightest people around? :moon:

    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    http://www.creationtips.com/earthsage.html

    As far as I can see, this is only the case if humans were made immediately after the Earth.
    That does seem to be the contention of Young Earth creationists, yes. But even if it wasn't, the centrepiece of their ideology is that the world (i.e. Earth) is around 6 000 years old, which was my original point about some Christians not believing that the Earth is of that age.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by misslovinggrace)
    I dont understand why you guys feel I have time to be reading Wiki pages
    All you need to do is read the first few paragraphs. I do however find it odd that you ask for evidence and then refuse to read it when it's provided.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by misslovinggrace)
    But God isn't a superstition.

    If you're so sure that God is not real explain how/ who creates gravity.

    “Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.” - Stephen Hawkin
    well in my view God is a superstition someone doesn't need to have created something for it to exist. Gravity exists as a force due to Physics or maybe gravity exists 'not as a force but as a consequence of the curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass/energy; and resulting in gravitational time dilation, where time lapses more slowly in lower (stronger) gravitational potential.' Just because something exists doesn't mean it has to have a creator. If you look at an oak tree you don't think God created it because you know it grew form an acorn, so why can't the universe/world have come to exist in the same way.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Same thing? Not at all. Now you've turned it into a fact - give proof of its unconditional truth (that's what a fact is), and we shall discuss further. Otherwise, it's nothing but a twisted conditional.

    Nice appeal to authority there (which makes little sense). As I said - this is not about the random person randomly believing in a deity (not that it changes anything per se as to the point above). Someone may believe that the Earth was created by a "Dragon God"? Do I need to refer to that when discussing the topic of "God"?

    Read Genesis 5 and 11. As an added bonus, here's the truth that the earth is flat:
    Isaiah 11:12 12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
    Revelation 7:1 1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (I do concede that the Bible is not considered the word of God, though most Christians take it to be as such).
    The physicists agree that before the big bang, the laws of physics stop working. God is before the big bang.

    A God can be a personal or non-personal God.

    These quotes from the bible I won't bother with (not even Christian).
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by acupofgreentea)
    I forsaw this joke. Your reassurance on the matter is appreciated, though.
    Foresaw* or specifically phrased it like that to elicit the reassurance? :pierre:

    Touche. :holmes:
    Ha! :hahaha:

    I take my slight compliment back. This is why you can't have nice things. :noway:

    Spoiler:
    Show
    I can't remember the last time you went this long without repping me. :sigh: The absence of that 'ten' has been very much noted. :sad:
    Women, in a nutshell: getting mad about silence. :giggle: :lol:

    Spoiler:
    Show
    The absence of 10 rep points/day in the grand scheme of things hardly matters, though. Admit it: you only want it because it's from me. :smug:

    I can't tell whether you're joking or you genuinely find it abnormal I don't have a fax machine. :lolwut:
    I'm joking. I'm not that archaic. :erm:

    (Original post by chemting)
    You ninja'ed me... :ninja:

    I guess its payback for last time
    Sweet revenge is very much a staple of my diet, yes. :yep:
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Actually, it's not believed that the laws of physics as we know them applied to the singularity either. The origin, if any, of the singularity itself is currently unknown, so trying to invoke God is a futile exercise.
    That's true. This point was referring to why God doesn't need a creator.
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    The physicists agree that before the big bang, the laws of physics stop working. God is before the big bang.

    A God can be a personal or non-personal God.

    These quotes from the bible I won't bother with (not even Christian).
    Prove that this is true then. I've asked this three times. Give concrete proof that God existed before the Big Bang and that he thereby created earth.

    I agree. How is that relevant to what I said?

    So, you asked for proof for what I said from the Bible and now say you won't bother with it. Sounds legit :rolleyes:

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    That's true. This point was referring to why God doesn't need a creator.
    Well it hasn't really explained anything, it's just special pleading. Space and time were created with the Big Bang, there is no evidence that there is anything outside of that, it is a completely baseless claim that religionists have invented to try and conserve God.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Actually, it's not believed that the laws of physics as we know them applied to the singularity either. The origin, if any, of the singularity itself is currently unknown, so trying to invoke God is a futile exercise.



    Why are you assuming there has to be a being that creates gravity?

    Also, I have no idea why you quoted Stephen Hawking, you do know he's an atheist, don't you?
    Name:  f29.png
Views: 30
Size:  355.0 KB

    You got me. I don't even know what to say.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 24, 2016
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.