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Muslims: Do you believe homosexuality should be illegal/criminalized? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Only Muslims because I want to get an accurate result
    Yes, it should be illegal
    31
    26.50%
    No, I am a tolerant person who believes in "live and let live"
    86
    73.50%

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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    And the Hadith is even more blunt:

    "When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes.....Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to."
    I will start with this Hadith first and I'll address the Quran in another post. So if we look at the "kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to" and first analyse the chain of command:

    Muhammad bin al-Sabah
    'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Malik bin Shayb
    'Abdul 'Aziz bin Muhammad al-Daruradi
    'Amr bin Abi 'Amr (Maysayra)
    'Ikrama
    ibn Abbas


    So the Hadith relates that Ibn Abbas heard the Prophet say this message. However only one single person claims to have heard Ibn Abbas relate this Hadith, namely Ikrima. A Hadith becomes more reliable if you have multiple people attesting to a person saying it, but here we only have one person. As there are so few people (only one) who attest to this, we have to question its reliability. So we could look at the character of Ikrima and see if he is a reliable transmitter of Hadith. Here however we run into problems.

    Taha Jabir Alalwani in his book "Apostasy in Islam: A Historical and Scriptural Analysis" says on Pg. 79:

    Al Bukhari was criticized for narrating hadiths on the authority of Ikrimah, and Ibn al-Salah states that "... al-Bukhari cited [hadiths narrated by] a group of narrators whose reliability has been previously challenged, including Ikrimah, ibn Abbas's slave." Muslims used to avoid narrating hadiths on the authory of Ikrimah alone, while according to Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Malik refrained from narrating any more than a single hadith on his authority. In fact, Malik did not like Ikrimah to be mentioned.
    In The History of al-Tabari, Volume XXXIX, Biographies of the Prophet's Companions and Their Successors we find comments made about Ikrima on Pg. 216:

    According to al-Sarrar b. Muhammad b. Ismail Ibrahim b Said - his father: Said al-Musayyab used to say to his client Burd "O Burd, do not lie about me, as did Ikrimah about Ibn Abbas."
    Ibn Sa'd al-Baghdadi in his Kitab Tabaqat Al-Kubra also provides a number of instances where people have criticised Ikrama for his exaggeration (not a good trait for a hadith authority) and some have called him a liar (certainly not a good attribute)

    If one looks through other early biographies written on the important people within Islam such as in Ibn al-Jazari's "Ghayat al—Nihaya" we find further criticisms of Ikrima's character.

    Now if you are going to use a Hadith narrated by Ikrima, the onus is on you to defend his reliability, as clearly many have raised issue with him.


    It is also worth mentioning that Ikrima was a Kharijite. This Islamic sect was the ISIS of their era, and many Muslims claimed that they were not true Muslims. Can we really be surprised that a person who was a member of a radical Islamic sect then produced such extreme Hadith?
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    (Original post by AhmedMA99)
    infertility can be treated. People who choose not to have children might change their mind one day.
    Most diseases started with infecting small percent of people and then started to spread.
    Science will sooner or later show evidence of how fatal can homosexual intercourses be.
    Sexual relationships between males and females have less STDs than Sexual relationships between males and males.
    That is total BS. Your ignorance is both shocking and hilarious.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    Indeed. They also believe that every violent verse of the Qu'ran and Sunnah is metaphorical and was intended as a "Jihad of the pen." They're a much nicer bunch than the other sects. Hell, they're the only sect that's compatible with the west!
    Actually very very sad that they're viewed as non Muslims and discriminated against.

    But speaks volumes of the ulamas of other Muslim groups who condemn them even though there's a Quran verse indicating that Ahmadis are real Muslims.
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    (Original post by BristolFresher15)
    We get it, you hate Islam.

    Your posts are starting to get annoying. You don't present any intelligent arguments, just points that you think would cause controversy.
    Yeeeeeees big man!!! Well put my son

    (Original post by KaminiZindagi)
    I dont hate Islam. LOL
    I genuinely wanna know what the Muslim Youth thinks.

    Where do you see me hating Islam. Poking fun does not mean I hate Islam. Grow up

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    You need some lessons from this big boi, he knows what he's doing ^^^
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    Is there? This is a direct quote from the Qu'ran on such acts:

    "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:77-78 [I think]
    One of the issues with the Quran is that it is not a chronological story. So if we look at the story of Lut, we find verses that say:

    And [mention] Lot, when he said to his people, "Indeed, you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds. Indeed, you approach men and obstruct the road and commit in your meetings [every] evil."
    Surah 29:28-29

    What this describes here is essentially the role of a highwayman who would prey on travellers. The role of such travellers and traders would have largely been a job undertaken by men, and therefore the victims of any such crimes here would be men. They are ambushing these men (so whatever is happening, it is not consensual) and performing immoral acts such as theft, rape etc...

    We also see in Surah 15:71, Lut goes as far as even offering his own daughters. This is because these men are clearly having extra-marital affairs (adultery) which Islam prohibits. Islam however permits a man to marry more than one woman, and so Lut seems to assume that maybe these individuals may not be satisfied by one woman, and so he offers them his daughters. This is his last resort to try and stop these men from committing such evils as adultery. Lut's line of thought is that maybe if they married another woman they might cease from committing adultery.

    The verse 7:80, the word l-fāḥishata is used to describe the immortality that is being committed. This comes from the root word "Fahisha" which Abdul Majid Daryabadi in his Tafsir ul Quran says:

    "in [its] general significance is ‘an excess; an enormity; anything exceeding the bounds of rectitude.’ but when particularized, signifies ‘adultery or fornication’ "
    It would seem to imply extramarital sex is the issue here. So these are men, who are married and have wives, but are having extramarital sex. Such an interpretation makes sense when one reads the continuous prohibitions against adultery in the Quran. Why is the Quran so vocal on these issues? These teachings that we find about adultery are related to heterosexual relationships. Muhammad, being an orphan himself, knew first hand the problems of being an orphan. Children born out of wedlock or who were the result of adultery, were less likely to have a stable household. Marriage was an institution designed to provide a stable and safe environment for children. Marriage allowed for clear lines of responsibility in the raising of children and ensured that children knew who their parents were and whose duty it was to raise them

    It is also worth mentioning that in Surah 24 verse 31, women are told that they should cover themselves (dress moderately), but it lists a number of individuals whom they need not cover themselves from such as their husband, children and "men who lack physical desire". This passing reference is towards those who have no sexual attraction to women, The Quran is therefore acknowledging that homosexuality is not a choice, and for this reason, women need not cover themselves in front of them.

    Now there are people who will claim that the verse is actually talking about lutiya, that is sodomy or anal sex. But even if we do take this interpretation, the verse you quote is saying perform anal sex on women instead of men. Does that really solve the problem?

    It is also worth mentioning that in Surah An-Nisa verses 22-24, the Quran lists the many individuals who a man may not marry, for example, a man may not marry his mother, his sister, his sister's daughter, among many other individuals. However, among those listed as being prohibited for men to marry, one does not find any mention of those individuals of the same sex being prohibited. These verses don't forbid one from marrying their first cousin. Muslims consider this to be a rather complete list of prohibitions, and thus absence of a prohibition against marrying ones cousin has resulted in first cousin marriage being permitted in Islam.

    So even if we did take the verses regarding Lut to be prohibitions against sodomy, sodomy can be performed by heterosexual couples too. But one is quite able to have a heterosexual marriage where sodomy is not practiced. Equally so, one is able to have a same sex marriage where sodomy does not take place. Which would imply that as long as sodomy is not practiced, the Quran has no prohibition against same sex marriage.
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    But to answer your question since your poll doesn't give the view that Muslims will believe in:

    I personally disagree with homosexuality because I am a Muslim. As such, I do not believe it should be banned or illegal or criminalised (probably in Muslims countries though) because if a Muslim says something like that in a country like Britain, then we are accused of pushing Shariah law in Britain and then a huge **** storm just erupts. I have seen this, witnessed this, and heard this sooooooo many times so anybody who disagrees with that is not going to have a hope in hell of convincing me otherwise.

    Being a Muslim, homosexuality is haram and personally, I don't see the point in it and don't see how it arises and I think personally just being honest that it's disgusting. I actually genuinely feel sick about thinking about homosexuality. But, saying this, I wouldn't go and publicly mock or tell them what they're doing is gross etc. (not just my view, many have the same view) and would just ignore them or move the hell away.

    Seeing your comment about Shariah law earlier...

    Shariah is not the reason Islam is a mess. Islam is a mess because of the media, because of the west and because of the terrorists who hijack Islam and try to alter its meanings for their own purposes. What is shariah law in there?

    Islam is not just about praying and fasting, it's much more. We do let people "live and let live" I don't see how, I, for example am not letting you live? Or another Muslim I can't imagine is preventing you from living...?
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    (Original post by Nickierose21)
    It doesn't say in the quran that homosexuality should be criminalized it talks about what some guess to be homosexuals being punished in the time Lut. That's the only mention of it. And that was punishment from GOD not man. In fact Lot told them to refrain from their actions but it never depicts him trying to punish them himself. I think it's between them and GOD.
    I think its between the person and God
    I'm a muslim youth
    but i don't believe it should be criminalised, and i would never treat a person differently because their gay.
    and in islam, its not allowed to have gay s** but it's not haram to be gay
    just like for someone who's straight, its not allowed to have s** outside of marriage
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    (Original post by Jeff548)
    But to answer your question since your poll doesn't give the view that Muslims will believe in:

    I personally disagree with homosexuality because I am a Muslim. As such, I do not believe it should be banned or illegal or criminalised (probably in Muslims countries though) because if a Muslim says something like that in a country like Britain, then we are accused of pushing Shariah law in Britain and then a huge **** storm just erupts. I have seen this, witnessed this, and heard this sooooooo many times so anybody who disagrees with that is not going to have a hope in hell of convincing me otherwise.

    Being a Muslim, homosexuality is haram and personally, I don't see the point in it and don't see how it arises and I think personally just being honest that it's disgusting. I actually genuinely feel sick about thinking about homosexuality. But, saying this, I wouldn't go and publicly mock or tell them what they're doing is gross etc. (not just my view, many have the same view) and would just ignore them or move the hell away.

    Seeing your comment about Shariah law earlier...

    Shariah is not the reason Islam is a mess. Islam is a mess because of the media, because of the west and because of the terrorists who hijack Islam and try to alter its meanings for their own purposes. What is shariah law in there?

    Islam is not just about praying and fasting, it's much more. We do let people "live and let live" I don't see how, I, for example am not letting you live? Or another Muslim I can't imagine is preventing you from living...?
    exactly, as in the Quran it say's that there is no compulsion in religion... you can't force somebody to follow all aspects of Islam
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    (Original post by reinaadira)
    exactly, as in the Quran it say's that there is no compulsion in religion... you can't force somebody to follow all aspects of Islam
    What on Earth...?
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    (Original post by Jeff548)
    What on Earth...?
    I mean like what you said about Letting People Live etc. like if a non muslim is doing something not allowed in Islam, we don't have the right and shouldn't force them to stop doing it
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    (Original post by KaminiZindagi)
    A recent documentary revealed that 50% of British Muslims believe such a thing
    I think it should be legalized.
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    (Original post by Jeff548)
    But to answer your question since your poll doesn't give the view that Muslims will believe in:

    I personally disagree with homosexuality because I am a Muslim. As such, I do not believe it should be banned or illegal or criminalised (probably in Muslims countries though) because if a Muslim says something like that in a country like Britain, then we are accused of pushing Shariah law in Britain and then a huge **** storm just erupts. I have seen this, witnessed this, and heard this sooooooo many times so anybody who disagrees with that is not going to have a hope in hell of convincing me otherwise.

    Being a Muslim, homosexuality is haram and personally, I don't see the point in it and don't see how it arises and I think personally just being honest that it's disgusting. I actually genuinely feel sick about thinking about homosexuality. But, saying this, I wouldn't go and publicly mock or tell them what they're doing is gross etc. (not just my view, many have the same view) and would just ignore them or move the hell away.

    Seeing your comment about Shariah law earlier...

    Shariah is not the reason Islam is a mess. Islam is a mess because of the media, because of the west and because of the terrorists who hijack Islam and try to alter its meanings for their own purposes. What is shariah law in there?

    Islam is not just about praying and fasting, it's much more. We do let people "live and let live" I don't see how, I, for example am not letting you live? Or another Muslim I can't imagine is preventing you from living...?


    if a Muslim says something like that in a country like Britain, then we are accused of pushing Shariah law in Britain and then a huge **** storm just erupts.

    Too right we dont need opressive ideas over here and we have a right to challenge them. anyone that says this deserves a ****storm


    I wouldn't go and publicly mock or tell them what they're doing is gross etc. (not just my view, many have the same view) and would just ignore them or move the hell away.

    But you would be fine having it against the law, you are effectively telling them that this is gross.
    this



    Shariah is not the reason Islam is a mess. Islam is a mess because of the media, because of the west and because of the terrorists who hijack Islam and try to alter its meanings for their own purposes. What is shariah law in there?
    Sharia law is oppressive and the reason that Islam is a "mess" is not the west or us. it is a oppressive ideology and a backwards government and system.


    Islam is not just about praying and fasting, it's much more. We do let people "live and let live" I don't see how, I, for example am not letting you live? Or another Muslim I can't imagine is preventing you from living...?

    So letting them live and let live unless they are gay, a woman. non Muslim
    ok sure

    [/QUOTE]
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    (Original post by reinaadira)
    I think its between the person and God
    I'm a muslim youth
    but i don't believe it should be criminalised, and i would never treat a person differently because their gay.
    and in islam, its not allowed to have gay s** but it's not haram to be gay
    just like for someone who's straight, its not allowed to have s** outside of marriage
    yeah homosexuality isn't specifically mentioned in the Quran and some perceive the story Lot to be about homosexuality.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    if a Muslim says something like that in a country like Britain, then we are accused of pushing Shariah law in Britain and then a huge **** storm just erupts.

    Too right we dont need opressive ideas over here and we have a right to challenge them. anyone that says this deserves a ****storm


    I wouldn't go and publicly mock or tell them what they're doing is gross etc. (not just my view, many have the same view) and would just ignore them or move the hell away.

    But you would be fine having it against the law, you are effectively telling them that this is gross.
    this



    Shariah is not the reason Islam is a mess. Islam is a mess because of the media, because of the west and because of the terrorists who hijack Islam and try to alter its meanings for their own purposes. What is shariah law in there?
    Sharia law is oppressive and the reason that Islam is a "mess" is not the west or us. it is a oppressive ideology and a backwards government and system.


    Islam is not just about praying and fasting, it's much more. We do let people "live and let live" I don't see how, I, for example am not letting you live? Or another Muslim I can't imagine is preventing you from living...?

    So letting them live and let live unless they are gay, a woman. non Muslim
    ok sure
    [/QUOTE]

    Too right we dont need opressive ideas over here and we have a right to challenge them. anyone that says this deserves a ****storm
    Hahahaha you don't get it. When a non Muslims comments vice versa about a Muslim country, its ok and it is portrayed that the Muslim country is wrong. However, in my case it causes a **** storm. So your suggestion basically is just a **** storm? I mean it's only if a Muslim says it. I know plenty of white people who hate gay/homo more than me but that's okay. But if I hate it... oh boy. It's a bloody case and a half of me 'pushing Shariah law'

    But you would be fine having it against the law, you are effectively telling them that this is gross.
    You clearly didn't read what was written. I said I would be happy for it to be illegal if the UK government decided (never would but just saying) but I wouldn't go and tell a gay person to their face that they are being disgusting. Don't see how that could've been clearer.

    Sharia law is oppressive and the reason that Islam is a "mess" is not the west or us. it is a oppressive ideology and a backwards government and system.
    Hahahaha please, continue to entertain me. Explain my friend if you have a clue what you're on about.

    So letting them live and let live unless they are gay, a woman. non Muslimok sure
    By this point my friend, either I have lost any ****s I previously had in your 'argument' or I just don't know what on Earth you're on about. You decide
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    LOL
    So many Islamists on TSR are like" It should not be banned here but it should be banned in Muslim countries"

    LOL. Srs..:facepalm:

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    (Original post by KaminiZindagi)
    A recent documentary revealed that 50% of British Muslims believe such a thing
    Nope, I don't think people should judge. I consider homosexuality as an equal to heterosexuality- there is no point of us judging when we are faulty beings.
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    (Original post by Jeff548)
    I personally disagree with homosexuality because I am a Muslim.
    There is verse in the Quran that explicitly condemns homosexuality. So your disagreement is most likely cultural.

    I don't see the point in it
    That's not really a strong argument.

    and don't see how it arises and I think personally just being honest that it's disgusting.
    Morality is not dictated my disgust. I think McDonalds is disgusting, therefore eating McDonalds is wrong?

    I actually genuinely feel sick about thinking about homosexuality.
    I can't fathom why someone loving another human being would make you feel sick.

    Shariah is not the reason Islam is a mess. Islam is a mess because of the media, because of the west and because of the terrorists who hijack Islam and try to alter its meanings for their own purposes. What is shariah law in there?
    I would argue part of the reason Islam has an image problem in the West is that among many Muslims communities there exists a lot of homophobia, which reflects badly on Muslims and Islam in general. The homophobia within the Muslim community is something that needs to be challenged.
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    (Original post by Jeff548)
    But to answer your question since your poll doesn't give the view that Muslims will believe in:

    I personally disagree with homosexuality because I am a Muslim. As such, I do not believe it should be banned or illegal or criminalised (probably in Muslims countries though) because if a Muslim says something like that in a country like Britain, then we are accused of pushing Shariah law in Britain and then a huge **** storm just erupts. I have seen this, witnessed this, and heard this sooooooo many times so anybody who disagrees with that is not going to have a hope in hell of convincing me otherwise.

    Being a Muslim, homosexuality is haram and personally, I don't see the point in it and don't see how it arises and I think personally just being honest that it's disgusting. I actually genuinely feel sick about thinking about homosexuality. But, saying this, I wouldn't go and publicly mock or tell them what they're doing is gross etc. (not just my view, many have the same view) and would just ignore them or move the hell away.

    Seeing your comment about Shariah law earlier...

    Shariah is not the reason Islam is a mess. Islam is a mess because of the media, because of the west and because of the terrorists who hijack Islam and try to alter its meanings for their own purposes. What is shariah law in there?

    Islam is not just about praying and fasting, it's much more. We do let people "live and let live" I don't see how, I, for example am not letting you live? Or another Muslim I can't imagine is preventing you from living...?
    But you say it should be criminalized in in Muslim countries. Muslims always demand rights abd privileges in the UK but they are not willing to award rights to minorities in Muslim countries.

    Typical... And Yes sharia does not ensure human rights and it is vile abd disgusting. Saudi is a mess

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    (Original post by AhmedMA99)
    I was not talking about you being Muslim and Gay. If you claim that you are a Muslim, then you must know Lut. His people were killed in a horrible way.
    Prophet Lut's (PBUH) people were killed in a horrible way because they were sodomites. Not for being gay, but for having gay sex. Prophet Lut begged them not to lay in bed with a man as they would with a woman (i.e. not to have gay sex) they ignored him.

    they were punished for the sex. Even prophet Lut's wife, who was NOT gay, was punished the same way because she encouraged them to have gay sex.

    I am not supposed to encourage gay sex because I am a Muslim, but because I am a Muslim, I am also expected to be tolerant and accepting (as by the teachings of the Qur'an), meaning that I should not discriminate against anybody.

    If you google it you can find info about gay muslims. I have taken the liberty of finding an article for you, I suggest you read it

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/husseinkesv...PB1#.rwa7V12l8

    even though these men are in straight marriages, they are gay.

    EDIT: heres a part of the article just incse you wont read it

    “To have the inclination has never been condemned,” he said. “It’s acting upon it.”
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    There is verse in the Quran that explicitly condemns homosexuality. So your disagreement is most likely cultural.



    That's not really a strong argument.



    Morality is not dictated my disgust. I think McDonalds is disgusting, therefore eating McDonalds is wrong?



    I can't fathom why someone loving another human being would make you feel sick.



    I would argue part of the reason Islam has an image problem in the West is that among many Muslims communities there exists a lot of homophobia, which reflects badly on Muslims and Islam in general. The homophobia within the Muslim community is something that needs to be challenged.
    There is verse in the Quran that explicitly condemns homosexuality. So your disagreement is most likely cultural.


    Well ******* obviously, I did say "because I am a Muslim." My disagreement is religious therefore so otherwise I haven't a clue da f you on about.



    Morality is not dictated my disgust. I think McDonalds is disgusting, therefore eating McDonalds is wrong?

    I said it's wrong because my religion "condemns it explicitly..." and also I went to say that I personally feel it's disgusting which is why I as an individual am against it. Not saying the whole world should believe me.


    I can't fathom why someone loving another human being would make you feel sick.


    Well go and fathom the fact that it's two males of the same sex loving one another which is clearly not natural and so personally makes me disgusted


    I would argue part of the reason Islam has an image problem in the West is that among many Muslims communities there exists a lot of homophobia, which reflects badly on Muslims and Islam in general. The homophobia within the Muslim community is something that needs to be challenged.

    So your suggestion is to make Muslims more comfortable with the subject of homosexuality even though it is 'explicitly condemned?' Just as another member posted and undrlining my previous point, you can challenge something to a Muslim community but a Muslim community cannot challenge something back? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?


    -Big Boi
 
 
 
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