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Manchester police sorry for Allahu ackbar chants watch

  • View Poll Results: Should Greater Manchester police have apologised?
    Yes
    40.57%
    No
    59.43%

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    (Original post by TaintedLight)
    hahaa... so now we are into splitting hairs eh

    for all intends and purposes, I typed "mass outcry" to mean generic people in real life, as well as in the internet, talking about this drill - esp that chant and how it was demeaning or whatever. Sorry if that confused you? =S

    Anyway I'm done with you. You are all abt nit picking and dodging simple questions. Boo hoo
    It took you a whole week to come up with that reply?
    I'm not sure it was worth it... maybe go away for another week and try again?
    And don't blame me for your piss poor user of the language.


    And my point has been made: nobody's talking about it anymore.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It took you a whole week to come up with that reply?
    I'm not sure it was worth it... maybe go away for another week and try again?
    And don't blame me for your piss poor user of the language.


    And my point has been made: nobody's talking about it anymore.
    What do you think was done differently considering the bomber used the term?
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    (Original post by okey)
    What do you think was done differently considering the bomber used the term?
    I'm not sure what you're asking?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It took you a whole week to come up with that reply?
    I'm not sure it was worth it... maybe go away for another week and try again?
    And don't blame me for your piss poor user of the language.


    And my point has been made: nobody's talking about it anymore.


    Get well soon
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    I'm not sure what you're asking?
    In other words, what exact difference was made to the emergency service's response by having the bomber shout allahu akbar?
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    (Original post by okey)
    In other words, what exact difference was made to the drill by having the bomber shout allahu akbar?
    It's one of those things that's difficult to specifically quantify. The realism is something that only those directly involved in the exercise - the active participants - will see and feel the benefit of.

    When I was doing similar things we had a key phrase "getting into the scenario". Unless you fully bought into the exercise and felt how real it was, you wouldn't react properly.

    The value of doing it this way is for the police, not us.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    It's one of those things that's difficult to specifically quantify. The realism is something that only those directly involved in the exercise - the active participants - will see and feel the benefit of.

    When I was doing similar things we had a key phrase "getting into the scenario". Unless you fully bought into the exercise and felt how real it was, you wouldn't react properly.

    The value of doing it this way is for the police, not us.
    So you think the police would have reacted differently had the term not been used.
    So at any rate you think that there is inconsistency in the police's reaction to the response depending on whether it is a clearly Islamic extremist threat or an equally threatening yet non Islamic extremist threat- definitely a flaw in the police's conduct, then.

    I would have thought that the police would on principle react in the exact same way regardless of whether it was an Islamic extremist threat or unclear- as the fact that a bomb has exploded still stands and should suffice. The reaction of the police should not be any different depending on who exactly the bomber is- therefore use of the term was unjustified.
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    (Original post by okey)
    So you think the police would have reacted differently had the term not been used.
    So at any rate you think that there is inconsistency in the police's reaction to the response depending on whether it is a clearly Islamic extremist threat or an equally threatening yet non Islamic extremist threat- definitely a flaw in the police's conduct, then.

    I would have thought that the police would on principle react in the exact same way regardless of whether it was an Islamic extremist threat or unclear- as the fact that a bomb has exploded still stands and should suffice. The reaction of the police should not be any different depending on who exactly the bomber is- therefore use of the term was unjustified.
    In principle you'd have a point, but you're forgetting that this exercise was designed to specifically mimic an attack in the style used by Islamic factions (and threatened against British shopping centres).

    Other exercises mimic other generic attacks.

    A key part, therefore, of this exercise was to represent that style of attack.

    That knowledge then alters how you'd respond to the incident and which tactics your teams use. That's what this exercise was for. That wouldn't have been achieved had it not been realistic.
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    *breaking news*

    the Chief Constable of Manchester has instructed all officers to shout Kumbaya when playing the part of terrorists.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    In principle you'd have a point, but you're forgetting that this exercise was designed to specifically mimic an attack in the style used by Islamic factions (and threatened against British shopping centres).

    Other exercises mimic other generic attacks.

    A key part, therefore, of this exercise was to represent that style of attack.

    That knowledge then alters how you'd respond to the incident and which tactics your teams use. That's what this exercise was for. That wouldn't have been achieved had it not been realistic.
    The think that you're missing is that the emergency services wouldn't respond to this attack any differently than an identical bomb threat carried out by anyone else. At the end of the day it is a bomb threat that they're responding to- and they have specific procedures for them. I don't think a bomb threat from Daesh would have been reacted to any differently than if it were from anyone else. If it would be then I'm curious to see how so.
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    (Original post by okey)
    The think that you're missing is that the emergency services wouldn't respond to this attack any differently than an identical bomb threat carried out by anyone else. At the end of the day it is a bomb threat that they're responding to- and they have specific procedures for them. I don't think a bomb threat from Daesh would have been reacted to any differently than if it were from anyone else. If it would be then I'm curious to see how so.
    Except that that is exactly what GMP said it was for.

    And yes, they really would respond differently. They have to.

    It was to counter a specific threat of suicide bomb followed by machine gun attack, an attack which requires a specific response - you're not going to suddenly flood the area with ambulances and medics if there are gunmen still at large. So you need to know to send in armed response teams, lock down the area (that auto corrected to lick... That's a very different kind of response) and, only when it's safe, to send in the first aiders.

    But you don't know to reply that way unless you have the cues telling you what kind of attack it is. Hence the signposts.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Except that that is exactly what GMP said it was for.

    And yes, they really would respond differently. They have to.

    It was to counter a specific threat of suicide bomb followed by machine gun attack, an attack which requires a specific response - you're not going to suddenly flood the area with ambulances and medics if there are gunmen still at large. So you need to know to send in armed response teams, lock down the area (that auto corrected to lick... That's a very different kind of response) and, only when it's safe, to send in the first aiders.

    But you don't know to reply that way unless you have the cues telling you what kind of attack it is. Hence the signposts.
    Well you've said it yourself, because none of that has anything to do with it being an Islamic extremist threat- that is just the nature of the threat itself. All of the factors that you've mentioned do alter how the emergency services would respond- but you haven't mentioned whether it is an extremist Islamic threat or not, because that wouldn't really change how they respond at all.

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    (Original post by okey)
    Well you've said it yourself, because none of that has anything to do with it being an Islamic extremist threat- that is just the nature of the threat itself. All of the factors that you've mentioned do alter how the emergency services would respond- but you haven't mentioned whether it is an extremist Islamic threat or not, because that wouldn't really change how they respond at all.

    Except it does, because that's a specific threat that's been made against UK shopping centres by Islamic terrorists and a tactic that has been used exclusively by Islamic terrorists in recent years... which I've said a couple of times so don't know why you're ignoring it.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Except it does, because that's a specific threat that's been made against UK shopping centres by Islamic terrorists and a tactic that has been used exclusively by Islamic terrorists in recent years... which I've said a couple of times so don't know why you're ignoring it.
    So you think that the police would react differently if the attack just seemed unrealistic? Maybe they should do drills explaining to the police that a similar attack may come from someone who isn't clearly an Islamic extremist, because god knows what they'd do if it did. (I did address this in my original comment).

    Sounds like quite an allegation to make to the police.
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    (Original post by okey)
    So you think that the police would react differently if the attack just seemed unrealistic?
    Put it this way, it's the difference between a football team training by playing a game of football or training by playing on Pro Evo. They'll both give the team an idea of how to play, but only one is realistic and guess which one they'll learn more from?

    Having been in similar situations and similar exercises in the past, the difference matters.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Put it this way, it's the difference between a football team training by playing a game of football or training by playing on Pro Evo. They'll both give the team an idea of how to play, but only one is realistic and guess which one they'll learn more from?

    Having been in similar situations and similar exercises in the past, the difference matters.
    This is a bad metaphor considering regardless of the realism of the situation the police would still have had to respond to the bomb threat as if it was completely real. Their task would have been identical and therefore their actions should be identical. In some ways it would have even been a better drill.
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    (Original post by okey)
    This is a bad metaphor considering regardless of the realism of the situation the police would still have had to respond to the bomb threat as if it was completely real. Their task would have been identical and therefore their actions should be identical. In some ways it would have even been a better drill.
    But that's the point. You're acting as if it was only a bomb threat. It wasn't. It was a specific attack profile involving at least one suicide bomber, numerous gunmen and the potential for hostage taking or further suicide bombers.

    That requires a different response to 'just' a bomb threat. Hence needing an element of the exercise which gives an indication of what the threat is.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    But that's the point. You're acting as if it was only a bomb threat. It wasn't. It was a specific attack profile involving at least one suicide bomber, numerous gunmen and the potential for hostage taking or further suicide bombers.

    That requires a different response to 'just' a bomb threat. Hence needing an element of the exercise which gives an indication of what the threat is.
    The indication of what the threat is is the fact that there are suicide bombers, gunmen, and hostage takers. These are the things they would be dealing with, regardless of how real the situation seems, or the faction of the terrorists.

    Anyway, thank you for your time.
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    So what was the result of the emergency responses
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    lol i love how stupid people are it literally mans god is the greatest so if poeple belive in 'god' then they believe in 'allah'. 'allah' is not a name is just means god in arabic so they police were right to apologise because they offended many believers of god such as muslims, cristians, jews and hindus etc. all these religions believe that god is the greatest so yeah they shouldn't have said it.
    https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl...test+in+arabic
 
 
 
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