Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Study Helper
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Study Helper
    Welcome Squad
    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Is a 25 year old son, who fully consents to engage in sexual activity with his 55 year old father, according to your idea of morality, acceptable?
    They're both adults, if they keep it to themselves I don't know about it so I wouldn't care. But it's still ****ed up.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mil88)
    If this is to be true, then I do disagree with the intention for this thread.

    However, the link your proposing that Islam is somehow involved, is frankly absurd. His post would inevitably be criticized here, not his beliefs.
    It is true; that is obvious. His belief that his morality is somehow better than anyone else's because of his superstitious beliefs is arrogant and most certainly open to criticism.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hydeman)
    X.
    I have indeed recognized what the alleged 'intention' was for this thread, and as previously stated, I do disagree. It's pointless to ask what atheism says on this topic, because it doesn't have anything to say. My belief is still that he was asking what atheists themselves belief, for the latter opinion is absurd, for reasons already given.

    I am not defending anyone simply because of their beliefs. Rather, I have said and am still saying, to criticize his intentions is acceptable but to mock his beliefs and his religion here is unwarranted.

    You're not going to read my replies. Oh no, whatever am I going to do now Hydeman? You do know how I love holding these kinds of discussions with yourself...

    The irony being you quoted me, I never quoted or aimed anything at you.

    For indeed, such puerile discussions aren't worthy anymore.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    It is true; that is obvious. His belief that his morality is somehow better than anyone else's because of his superstitious beliefs is arrogant and most certainly open to criticism.
    Correct, I agree with this completely. However, his beliefs regarding the intention of the thread, are open criticism, but certainly not his beliefs regarding his religion, right?
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Make sure you use plenty of lube!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Cobalt_)
    Back to this again are we.
    As hydeman has pointed out the OP himself "you would know that the OP specifically asked what people thought of the matteras atheists, not what they thought as people who just happen to be atheists. See posts #8, #11, and #20."

    Also, you responded from point 3 of mine which was: "When you ask a question which has nothing to do with a belief structure ofcourse you're going to get criticised"
    Taking my words out of context. Typical.


    You didnt respond to why I mentioned Islam, guess you realised that you didnt know the full story. Ill accept your apology for jumping in and assuming.

    "My point was simply, in this thread, he was simply asking a question to the atheistic community, which only few actually responded appropriately. I see no issue with criticizing him due to his apparent intentions against fellow atheists."

    So then you can see why few responded.
    Answered your own question there mate.


    Actually no, the definition isnt as simple as a google search. Very ignorant.
    Other defintions out there state:
    sexual intercourse between two persons commonly regarded as too closely related to marry
    The crime of sexual relations with a person defined by statute as too closely related.
    Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom.

    Just a few I found^.
    Note there are many places in the world where marrying your first cousin is against the law.

    Most would agree incest is the sexual relation between two people who are blood related. Which fits in the category of first cousins Which from an islamic point of view is perfectly acceptable and wide spread, after all the consequences are the same as what one may expect. They both may have been raised together socially and sexual relationships will lead to genetic defeats in future children (fact). Prophet mohammed himself married cousins which should be a pretty good sign that it is perfectly allowed and accepted. After all the prophet was perfect, right?

    Like I said, you can find 99% of Scholars agreeing with this.... even Naik agrees. Its a universal fact, I'm sorry but I dont appreciate the playing dumb. Fact is, 1st marriage is allowed.
    Fact is, some will see that as incest.

    If you ask me, theres little difference between father/son and man/first cousin incest. Both cause genetic defeats and both have been socialised and brought up together. Both are horrible.

    However is still acceptable in Islam.


    Anyway, I'm done replying.
    Seems like you cant admit when you're wrong. I posted the reason I mentioned Islam , I gave you the screenshot of the OP and you still are trying to argue with me about atheist vs atheism despite being corrected by multiple users.

    I quoted the quotes in the Quran which allow for 1st cousin marriage and therefore incest to most peoples definition. I think you need to educate yourself more about the topic before you try to defend it, clearly its a wide spread view accepted by all scholars and you trying to tell me I've misinterpreted is just a disservice to yourself and your own belief. Lets face it, scholars know more that you right. They must do considering you're so quick to ask about their opinion.

    Funny isnt it, how the Quran allows something with so much biological consequences. Its almost like the Quran rejecting something which is biological natural... oh wait.

    I dont have time to debate further, exams to revise for. You being so one sided despite the OP's clear incentive just shows what a waste of time me replying would be. You bring no logical or rational thought to the topic, just misinformed statements and slight differences in the definitions of certain words.
    Indeed, although his intention is something I disagree with, the absurd notion that this permits you and others to ridicule his religious beliefs is frankly nonsense.

    It looks like you answered yourself, ' Most people agree...'. Therefore you admit that this issue is subjective, the definitions you put forward involve classifying to see if one is too close to marry, thus cousins may not be deemed as too close to marry. Thus, your argument falls apart.

    Ah yes, 99% of scholars agree even though I haven't shown or proven this. It's pretty obvious why...

    'Even Naik..' Ha! You're using Zakir Naik to support your point! Such drivel is frankly unheard of. A scholar (or allegedly claimed one, despite his open lies) that is from only one sect. So my earlier point of choosing the Islamic interpretation to use was indeed right, right?

    Yes of course, it's universal but only 99% scholars agree...

    Yes, so many biological consequences, yet you haven't proven one.

    Father and son isn't allowed in Islam.

    I am one sided, yet I agreed that his intention was not right?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mil88)
    Indeed, although his intention is something I disagree with, the absurd notion that this permits you and others to ridicule his religious beliefs is frankly nonsense.

    It looks like you answered yourself, ' Most people agree...'. Therefore you admit that this issue is subjective, the definitions you put forward involve classifying to see if one is too close to marry, thus cousins may not be deemed as too close to marry. Thus, your argument falls apart.

    Ah yes, 99% of scholars agree even though I haven't shown or proven this. It's pretty obvious why...

    'Even Naik..' Ha! You're using Zakir Naik to support your point! Such drivel is frankly unheard of. A scholar (or allegedly claimed one, despite his open lies) that is from only one sect. So my earlier point of choosing the Islamic interpretation to use was indeed right, right?

    Yes of course, it's universal but only 99% scholars agree...

    Yes, so many biological consequences, yet you haven't proven one.

    Father and son isn't allowed in Islam.

    I am one sided, yet I agreed that his intention was not right?

    Once again because you cant read for some reason. His religous beliefs were brought up because this is from a previous thread where it was about Islam, 4th time saying it now. Only choosing what you want to hear. I guess that way you dont have to admit your wrong right?

    Next, everything in religion is subjective. EVERYTHING.
    The idea of praying 5 times a day is subjective. I put good money that somewhere out there someone disagrees with it. Everyone has things they follow and others they dont. Thats the problem with it.

    Yup.
    Knew this would happen, just like most muslim.
    Extremely dishonest, first cousin marriage is a very well accepted norm in Islam. I was a Muslim and was very religious, may scholars accepted it and supported it. Some even saying it "strengthens family bonds".
    Its typical of religious people to instead justifying their own religion and what their own religious states whats allowed/not allowed to push it over as its not true. Something us non believers misinterpret.

    GIVE ME A SCHOLAR!
    *names one*
    HOW DARE YOU, HES TERRIBLE!
    etc etc.

    Ill give you another;
    The scholars of the Standing Committee were asked about marrying relatives and whether that causes retardation in the children.

    They replied: There are no saheeh ahaadeeth which forbid marriage to relatives. The incidence of retardation happens by the will and decree of Allaah and is not caused by marriage to relatives as is widely believed. End quote.

    Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 18/13

    Got to love it! Genetic defeats! Non sense, Allah chooses which babies gets them. Continue to marry your first cousins.

    Genetics aside, still havent argued any social aspect. I know many friends of mine who are married to their first cousin, been raised with them like cousins till they were old enough to marry.

    Oh you wanted the biological proof right? Not sure why, anyone whos done at least GCSE biology would be able to tell you that first cousin marriage can and will cause genetic defeats. Its not as bad compared to father/daughter or to closer relations however it still can cause genetic defeats. Simple as.
    Enjoy:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...-children.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...-birth-defects

    Typical.

    Anyway, dont bother replying because I wont reply.
    Its clear that instead of educating yourself on the topic and discussing it, you rather pass it as "misinterpretation" rather than tackle and think rationally about your own belief system.
    Because everything with a negative outlook in Islam is always misinterpreted.

    Enjoy your day mate.
    Offline

    20
    (Original post by Tawheed)
    Do you believe it is morally acceptable for a consenting , and informed consenting 25 yer old son to have sex with his 55 year old informed consenting father, as an atheist?
    Stop having sex with your father FFS
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brexit voters: Do you stand by your vote?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.