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Countdown to the Referendum: What We Should All Know About the EU vs. UK Independence watch

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    Foo.mp3


    I hate to burst your ego, but as Johnson et al have noted- 52% is not exactly a massive mandate.

    If I was voting purely on the basis of CAP I would have voted to leave. But I wasn't, so I didnt.

    My point via the migrant cris us that it is better to be addressed with a European level framework and I fail to see how Britain leaving the EU will help to resolve this.

    Both sides have been pretty insulting. Im an establishment shill/ traitor apparently.


    Here is the LSE study:

    http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit05.pdf

    TTIP isn't happening.

    With Obama we will have to see. It all depends if we remain in the single market or not. If we retain our exultant trade deals whilst not having free movement I will happily concede defeat to you.

    Ah, cowards now. So hypocritical! There are other things to consider eg peace in Europe or Eleuthera than not tpbelieving in Britain, they didn't believe the claims of vote leave, which considering the U turns on the 350 million, migration etc is rather wise.

    I've always said there were unhealthy elements to remain ie Goldman Sachs etc. my point is that they will still be there Brexit or no. It is certainlly in people like Murdoch that their self interest to promote the national interest (which purely for altruistic reasons coincide (irony))
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    Foo.mp3 continued

    I too support PR and moving away from binary left/right. What would you have instead of political parties,mcontinuous referendums?

    Vote leave campaigned on reducing immigration, they have backtracked on this.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Foo.mp3


    I hate to burst your ego
    You'll need a joust and a fairly long run up.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    If we leave the EU will there be any change on the VAT price of Silver?
    Unlikely, unless there’s an overall rate rise/reduction. I rarely buy precious at retail (new) so doesn’t really bother me either way

    (Original post by ib_hopeful)
    If it's a democracy you want
    Don’t you value Democracy? Are you one of these numpties calling for a second referendum as we didn’t decide the ‘right’ way?
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    Ironically since Brexit we have a more or less unelected prime minister and a useless opposition. Some democracy we're getting back.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Numerous references by you to 'elitists' and the 'establishment'
    Aye, and this particular class of cretin saw their relentless campaign of fear, prejudice, and talking Britain down fail dismally, and are absolutely livid. It’s really rather amusing/gratifying

    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    you're a danger to this country and you don't even know it :rofl:
    Ok mate, whatever you reckon :yy:

    (Original post by JordanL_)
    their research has obviously been faked
    The forecasts began to unravel even before the day of the vote.. (see link below for follow up)

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    YOU ARE THE ESTABLISHMENT
    I can assure you I am not :haughty:

    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    I don't think we can cope outside of the EU
    There there, we’ll be ok :console:

    Spoiler:
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    Probably.. and if not, well, at least those of us in the know understand it'll most likely have bugger all to do with Brexit
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    *There there, we’ll be ok :console:

    Spoiler:
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    Probably.. and if not, well, at least those of us in the know understand it'll most likely have bugger all to do with Brexit
    *

    The way that Leavers have reacted just goes to show how uniformed they really are.*

    Ignoring the many negative impacts that the referendum result alone has had, and declaring themselves to be vindicated far in advance of the UK actually leaving the EU. Bless 'em.
    *
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    Well this one is correct at least:

    • One of Project Fear’s many threats is that #Brexit will see house prices fall by 20%, according to the Chancellor. Yes please, Mr. Osborne! | GDN



    Its not so much that house prices are falling, it just that no one wants to buy at all, at any price, the market has frozen up.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Aye, and this particular class of cretin saw their relentless campaign of fear, prejudice, and talking Britain down fail dismally, and are absolutely livid. It’s really rather amusing/gratifying

    Ok mate, whatever you reckon :yy:

    The forecasts began to unravel even before the day of the vote.. (see link below for follow up)

    I can assure you I am not :haughty:

    There there, we’ll be ok :console:

    Spoiler:
    Show
    Probably.. and if not, well, at least those of us in the know understand it'll most likely have bugger all to do with Brexit

    Genuine question i'd like you to answer.
    Is there any (imaginable) scenario in which you would change your mind on Brexit?
    Say, the economic forecasts are as bad as the worst predictions, would you alter your position?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    migrant crisis .. better .. addressed with a European level framework and I fail to see how Britain leaving the EU will help to resolve this
    Agreed. The UK leaving will not prevent the EU from taking appropriate action at source, nor will it prevent those countries willing to (far from all members) from sharing out the burden

    I’m an establishment shill/traitor apparently
    I’m sorry to hear that, but hope that in following the example of myself, and others like me, you may learn/mend the errors of your ways, in the name of glorious Britannia!

    Here is the LSE study
    You have failed to address my contention directly. LSE study does not (and cannot) negate the fact that EU migration has worsened wage inequality in this country (boosts top end, lowers bottom end, of income distribution)

    TTIP isn't happening
    Amen to that!

    If we retain our exultant trade deals whilst not having free movement I will happily concede defeat to you
    Concede defeat? You lost the argument, and the vote. The time for conceding was June 24th at the very latest. Never have I stated that we would necessarily get the same trade terms whilst extricating ourselves from the EU; however, I remain cautiously optimistic that we will yet secure favourable terms, thanks in no small measure to IPE vs. domestic economic-political pressures (primarily in Germany)

    Goldman Sachs etc. my point is that they will still be there Brexit or no
    For a while, yes, but great social/economic change is coming, and being free of regional hegemony, never mind global government, completely compromised by extractive crony/global capitalism is an important enabling force

    (Original post by Davij038)
    What would you have instead of political parties, continuous referendums?
    You could have independent MPs, elected on their merits, rather than their (status within) ideological organisations :hippie:

    Vote leave campaigned on reducing immigration, they have backtracked on this
    You’re going to need to expand on the charge in order to get an intelligent response. Being pro-immigration (as most of us are) does not mean not seeking to take control of it, with sustainability in mind

    (Original post by Davij038)
    Ironically since Brexit we have a more or less unelected prime minister and a useless opposition. Some democracy we're getting back
    Before the referendum we had Cameron (May has had much higher approval ratings), with < 25% of pop having voted for him, and Corbyn, with just 4% of all polls predicting a Labour win at the next election. If either wanted to give Democracy a boost then they would have handled their respective campaigns very differently e.g. in a fair and principled manner; that they opted instead to disgrace themselves is a matter for them and them alone, you cannot blame the catalyst, after the fact (not least because Cameron was the one who brought it upon us all)

    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    The way that Leavers have reacted just goes to show how uniformed they really are
    Our uniforms, souls, and collective conscience, shine bright – as righteous warriors of/in the right!

    Ignoring the many negative impacts that the referendum result alone has had
    Such as?

    declaring themselves to be vindicated far in advance of the UK actually leaving the EU
    The support of the majority of the voting public is vindication of the proposition that the country wishes to end its membership of the EU. To attempt to imply that it is anything but is really quite sad

    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    the [housing] market has frozen up
    Yes there have been fewer houses come to market but it's far from frozen, and we expect supply to recover once the shock (and awe tactics of the butthurt 'Project Fear' mainstream media) has died down. Keep an eye out in the spring :yy:

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Is there any (imaginable) scenario in which you would change your mind on Brexit?
    Independent economic collapse, the EU going to war with us, our society turning into a Crony Capitalist cess pit of greed/inhumanity compared with our European neighbours (this last one we do have to watch)
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    Foo.mp3


    The only thing that happened in June was that 52% of the population voted differently to me. If our positions were reversed and you went along with remain because of the result you're an idiot.

    I disagree that cutting immigration will lead to higher wages. Employers in low level work will find ways of keeping costs down whether through automation or outsourcimg). Or just by expecting staff to do more. This supply and demand thing is just a way for wealthy people to justify paying a **** wage.

    Okay, I'm an establishment mole and you're a Putinist infiltrator

    I like how you say the MSM is against you. What way did The Mail and The Sun in the referendum?

    If the polls were right we would still be in the EU. There's may is unelected.

    Vote Leave said they wanted to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands. The next day they said the leave vote had not been about immigration.

    How would a country of independent MPs run the country? How could there exist a cabinet not based on ideological lines? Just because something pretends to be non ideological doesn't mean it is -'there is no alternative' .

    Change is coming. He's called Trump. I fail to see how he, and a post brexit UK are going to help your vision of a better future.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    If our positions were reversed and you went along with remain because of the result you're an idiot
    What are you some kind of a rebel now? :mmm:

    Spoiler:
    Show
    Please tell me you weren't one of those butthurt beta manlets who protested the Democratic outcome in Westminster? :laugh:

    cutting immigration will lead to higher wages
    Who stated this?

    This supply and demand thing is just a way for wealthy people to justify paying a **** wage
    This "supply and demand thing" is what we call free market economics, pal. There ain't no getting away from fundamental market realities. If we don't like 'em, we regulate

    What way did The Mail and The Sun in the referendum?
    Granted, some MSM outlets backed Brexit, but they were in the minority, and the supposed neutral, publicly funded, media mega-monopoly (BBC) was woefully biased in its reporting and 'fact checking' :rolleyes:

    I doubt I'll pay a TV license fee until the boycott target Beeb apologise for breaching their own charter and put decent safeguards in place to ensure it never happens again, and I encourage other Brits of good conscience to consider doing the same. If the wastecadets behaved that way during a general election then half the country would've been up in arms!

    If the polls were right we would still be in the EU
    Give or take a few percent, she's still polled strongly - don't let's get facetious/intellectually dishonest now, never a good look :rolleyes:

    Vote Leave said they wanted to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands
    Quotes please

    I fail to see how Trump, and a post brexit UK are going to help your vision of a better future
    Trump could be a disaster, there again he could find his room for manouver rather limited in the oval office and himself being bossed by his administration/broader party. He's a bit of a nutter, it's true, but Hillary is poison. I thank God I'm not American and don't have to chose between those two. Both should probably be in prison, never mind the White House!

    Regarding Brexit, the better future is really contingent on my predictions playing out correctly with respect to negotiating halfway decent trade deals vs. the Eurozone absolutely tanking and causing major economic woes in all exposed economies (hopefully we'll be a lot less exposed and able to step clear of further calls for bailout contributions)
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    Foo.mp3


    No I didn't protest, I accept Brexit and hope it works. But if it doesn't don't expect me to be quiet. Additionally 1: there is nothing undemocratic about peaceful protests against the result, 2: if nobody had done anything people like yourself would have gone 'see! Nobody cares!'

    Pretty much all of UKIP,, Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson. I am pretty sure. Helpfully the Vote Leave site has wiped most of its videos and documents.

    ... I know, that's why I liked the EU as a regulatory body

    Can you give me an example of BBC bias in the referendum?

    http://www.newstatesman.com/broadcas...how-biased-bbc
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    there is nothing undemocratic about peaceful protests against the result,

    Of course there is. Democracy is where everyone has the opportunity to vote, and the majority's decision is implemented. Not where we do whatever you want - that's called dictatorship
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I accept Brexit and hope it works. But if it doesn't don't expect me to be quiet
    If Brexit leads, unequivocally, to major problems, then Bremainers will be well within their rights to pipe up but otherwise I expect people resident in my country to exercise characteristically British stoic decorum, and not to act so as to sabotage the stability and prosperity of the nation. So far, sadly many tens of thousands of ordinary citizens, plus public figures, and certain institutions, have acted at best irresponsibly, bordering on calling for a tyrannical refusal to act on Democratic mandate/committing treason, all in the name of what?- Wounded egos, essentially. ****ing disgraceful

    there is nothing undemocratic about peaceful protests against the result
    Straw man :yawn:

    if nobody had done anything people like yourself would have gone 'see! Nobody cares!'
    Can't take you seriously saying **** like this. Illogical/manifestly false on multiple levels :dunce:

    Pretty much all of UKIP,, Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson
    Quotes please

    Can you give me an example of BBC bias in the referendum?
    They were careful not to say owt too explicitly but you need only examine the skewed activity and rhetoric of 'BBC Reality Check' e.g. on Twitter, or to look at the similarly skewed emphasis on Project Fear reporting/interviewing on their news site

    Most claims of BBC bias come from {series of puerile insults}
    Insulting me advances your argument not one iota :yy:
 
 
 
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