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    (Original post by JavaScriptMaster)
    why do I get the feeling that your making all of this up as you go?

    the EU is a protectionist bloc that hinders international trade in favour of its own inward-looking trade.

    So your saying that the EU doesn't like to trade with Africa and South America and Asia? Can you prove that? We all know that the EU has free-trade between members but since when does the EU make it worse for international trade? Please prove that as well. When you have properly backed up point number 1 we can move on to the next one, your not an MP so don't say "facts" without backing them up with hard evidence
    So the EU protects EU trade by placing tariffs on non-EU goods, driving down competition, increasing monopolies.

    This has increased food prices for us.
    (Read on "Common External Tariff".)

    Also our inability to set our own tariffs is helping to destroy our steel industry. China has a surplus of steel, and is selling it ridiculously cheep.

    EU has only a 9% tariff on Chinese steel, as opposed to the US with a 255% tariff (I think?)(Sorry if slightly inaccurate; off the top of my head.)

    So our steel industry simply can't compete; no one's buying from them.

    Sorry my arguments lack structure; I'm on a schedule and writing in a stream of consciousness type of style.

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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    my argument isn't using "economists" because economists never accurately predict anything like this. like I said, if they got the euro argument totally wrong, why would they get this argument correct? how can you take them seriously? also, it is extremely clear that the EU is stagnating - why do economists think we should remain in a stagnating trade bloc? there must be some kind of invalidation to this. just like the euro episode.
    I'm remaining completely neutral in this. I genuinely want to see why you think about it the way you do; I'm starting to understand the LEAVE arguments further.

    Okay, but economists surely understand the economy and finance better than the average dude like, say, you, no? If not, why do you think that is and how have you drawn the conclusions you have drawn? With all due respect, it clearly isn't obvious that the EU is stagnating - more disagree with that assertion than agree, according to the polls, even if it is a narrow win.
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    (Original post by JavaScriptMaster)
    why do I get the feeling that your making all of this up as you go?

    the EU is a protectionist bloc that hinders international trade in favour of its own inward-looking trade.

    So your saying that the EU doesn't like to trade with Africa and South America and Asia? Can you prove that? We all know that the EU has free-trade between members but since when does the EU make it worse for international trade? Please prove that as well. When you have properly backed up point number 1 we can move on to the next one, your not an MP so don't say "facts" without backing them up with hard evidence
    https://euobserver.com/news/126559

    "you're not an MP" :lol: as if being an MP is authoritative...
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    Don't accuse me of not understanding basic english when you confuse importer and exporter s
    Never did mate. You just didn't understand when I was talking about tit.

    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    You should care because it clearly has a direct impact on the economic situation of the UK and you are implying this referendum is about pleasing large corporations every whim the most.

    And wrong, the UK imports more $ wise net than france does
    Nope......I said that companies would decrease investment and provided evidence. On the other hand....you have provided none.

    Also France imports more

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist..._goods_balance
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I'm remaining completely neutral in this. I genuinely want to see why you think about it the way you do; I'm starting to understand the LEAVE arguments further.

    Okay, but economists surely understand the economy and finance better than the average dude like, say, you, no? If not, why do you think that is and how have you drawn the conclusions you have drawn? With all due respect, it clearly isn't obvious that the EU is stagnating - more disagree with that assertion than agree, according to the polls, even if it is a narrow win.
    I'm saying that it is clear that, because the EU uses protectionism and hence stunts international competition within the EU itself, this will inevitably make growth decrease. whatever economists are arguing is with some kind of short term consequence in mind without any regard for the long term trend. for example, why is it that norway and switzerland are basically the only exceptions to the stagnation in europe? why wouldn't it be because theyre outside of the EU? what other factor is at work? switzerland freely trades with china, for example, whereas the EU chooses to put tariffs on chinese steel and african agricultural goods - that's the difference here, clearly. yes, perhaps there might be some kind of short term "shock" economically via brexit, but so what? if it's not without some costs it's obviously not worth doing - the risk is logically worth the reward if the risk is only short term. in my opinion, this is just like any kind of speculation of the UK being worse off by not joining the euro - if there was anything wrong with not joining it, it would only be in the short term, because there are clearly negative aspects of currency unions, as greece, portugal and ireland have demonstrated to us - the negative consequences of inflation/debt in one eurozone country inevitably blows in the direction of the other eurozone countries
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    It is a weakness being in the EU but it is an asset to play on if we leave because you need a customer more than you do needing to buy stuff we need to open our trade to the world, why should a worker from romania have the right to work here any more than a a mexican or america? its ridiculous to have free movement stick your union up your ass.
    So you want MExicans working here as well?
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    (Original post by The Roast)
    As much as I want us to leave, the reality is that we probably won't.

    It's depressing.
    I know right. It's one of the major tests of whether this country will continue to stand for something in the future. Social decadence and amorality are taking over as we speak...
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    So you want MExicans working here as well?
    Its pretty laughable how your caricature brexiters to Racists or BNP lite supporters its a joke, you seriously don't see the problems that EU brings and the fact that they cannot be addressed whatsoever whilst we remain?

    It is about getting a good deal for Britain and having a fairer immigration system which invites labour which we need, want and those who contribute not take. Anyone who satisfies those conditions is welcome, nobody should be given unlimited access purely because of what country they happen to be born in.

    You only demean your own argument and alienate those on the fence.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    If you want evidence about the economy, just look at the pound. The second worst performing currency out of the 16 major world currencies.
    Within the EU.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I'm remaining completely neutral in this. I genuinely want to see why you think about it the way you do; I'm starting to understand the LEAVE arguments further.

    Okay, but economists surely understand the economy and finance better than the average dude like, say, you, no? If not, why do you think that is and how have you drawn the conclusions you have drawn? With all due respect, it clearly isn't obvious that the EU is stagnating - more disagree with that assertion than agree, according to the polls, even if it is a narrow win.
    Let's be serious. It is about immigration.

    He will bring up things like the Euro, even though Economists at the time said that it would be a bad idea to join. Even the IMF said it wouldn't be a good idea for the UK to join. He knows this and will continue to perpetuate the lie.

    Just look at the pound. The second worst performing currency out of 16, this year and that was before the decrease in value over the past 2 weeks.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Let's be serious. It is about immigration.

    He will bring up things like the Euro, even though Economists at the time said that it would be a bad idea to join. Even the IMF said it wouldn't be a good idea for the UK to join. He knows this and will continue to perpetuate the lie.

    Just look at the pound. The second worst performing currency out of 1, this year and that was before the decrease in value over the past 2 weeks.
    I'm not entirely sure how the issues of immigration will halt by leaving the E.U. though...
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    (Original post by xylas)
    Within the EU.
    Nope....world currencies.
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    Never did mate. You just didn't understand when I was talking about tit.

    You confused Net rather deliberately to miss lead, you're only making yourself look a bell by getting rude keyboard warrior lol.


    Nope......I said that companies would decrease investment and provided evidence. On the other hand....you have provided none.

    You don't know that, various companies have said various things.. If we all knew where companies were investing and when there would be no point being a stock broker since the future would be written der.

    Also France imports more

    I said NET importer before and you deliberately tried to shift the goal posts. UK imports more net look it up.

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist..._goods_balance
    Seriously your attitude stinks if you think debating is thinking you're smarter than others without addressing the arguments head on you ain't going to get far.
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    Its pretty laughable how your caricature brexiters to Racists or BNP lite supporters its a joke, you seriously don't see the problems that EU brings and the fact that they cannot be addressed whatsoever whilst we remain?

    It is about getting a good deal for Britain and having a fairer immigration system which invites labour which we need, want and those who contribute not take. Anyone who satisfies those conditions is welcome, nobody should be given unlimited access purely because of what country they happen to be born in.

    You only demean your own argument and alienate those on the fence.
    Record low employment. Increasing jobs and investment. I have no issue with the immigration policy.
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    Never did mate. You just didn't understand when I was talking about tit.

    You confused Net rather deliberately to miss lead, you're only making yourself look a bell by getting rude keyboard warrior lol.


    Nope......I said that companies would decrease investment and provided evidence. On the other hand....you have provided none.

    You don't know that, various companies have said various things.. If we all knew where companies were investing and when there would be no point being a stock broker since the future would be written der.

    Also France imports more

    I said NET importer before and you deliberately tried to shift the goal posts. UK imports more net look it up.

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist..._goods_balance
    Seriously your attitude stinks if you think debating is thinking you're smarter than others without addressing the arguments head on you ain't going to get far.
    Errr no. France is also bigger net importer. 89 billion vs 79 billon. Figure 4

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist..._goods_balance

    I haven't been rude. I simply provided facts. You should vote to Remain.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I'm remaining completely neutral in this. I genuinely want to see why you think about it the way you do; I'm starting to understand the LEAVE arguments further.

    Okay, but economists surely understand the economy and finance better than the average dude like, say, you, no? If not, why do you think that is and how have you drawn the conclusions you have drawn? With all due respect, it clearly isn't obvious that the EU is stagnating - more disagree with that assertion than agree, according to the polls, even if it is a narrow win.
    You need to ask yourself, are these economists funded by the EU? ... you will find a huge amount receive millions in funding from the EU. Not just economists either
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    You need to ask yourself, are these economists funded by the EU? ... you will find a huge amount receive millions in funding from the EU. Not just economists either
    I did think of that. Like I said, I'm remaining very neutral.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I'm not entirely sure how the issues of immigration will halt by leaving the E.U. though...
    Well, it won't if they want to have access to the single market. Quite frankly, nothing will change if they want access to the single market.

    However, I don't think Brexiters are really that concerned with the economy. That is why they talk about the "long term" without specifying what it is.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, it won't if they want to have access to the single market. Quite frankly, nothing will change if they want access to the single market.

    However, I don't think Brexiters are really that concerned with the economy. That is why they talk about the "long term" without specifying what it is.
    Fair enough
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Errr no. France is also bigger net importer. 89 billion vs 79 billon. Figure 4

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist..._goods_balance

    I haven't been rude. I simply provided facts. You should vote to Remain.
    You showed one statement you haven't showed conclusive proof of anything. There is nothing but statements and hearsay there can never be certainties before the fact that's just basic logic.

    Have a look at how many jobs are being created and the quality of them. It isn't a success story if you compare it to the general cost of living and any grad knows it. Fact 88% of EU migrants would not satisfy the british emigration standards expected of overseas migrants.

    Vote brexit

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKCN0YR101
 
 
 
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