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Even if you're pro-guns, why on earth are automatic rifles available in America? Watch

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    (Original post by L i b)
    Which probably tells you more about how people in the US store their guns or discharge them rather than how effective they are for self-defence. I, for one, would rather have a gun than not have one if there were intruders in my house in the night, certainly: that's no "myth".
    If guns are kept in a locked safe, they are useless for self-defence against such intruders.
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Another liberal pulling gun statistics out of their ass - do they clone you in a factory?

    There are approximately 600 accidental firearm deaths per year in the US (591 in 2011 according to the CDC), and around 9000 firearm homicides per year. So no, accidents do not make up a significant proportion of gun deaths - in fact, a similar number of people die each year from falling out of bed as being accidentally shot. Time to ban sleeping!
    They actually said
    "gun accidents in the home and from being shot by their own children or by other family members"

    What basis do you have for removing one of the most fundamental part of the US Constitution
    It is not a fundamental part of the Constitution. The clue is in the name...2nd Amendment. Do you know what "amendment" means? That's right, a change. So it is neither fundamental, nor immutable.

    Also, the 2nd amend is stated in the context of a "well regulated militia". Care to direct me towards this "wee regulated militia" required by the Constitution?
    Thought not.

    coupled with a more-than-halving of homicide rates over the past 30 years.
    And yet, total firearms deaths have been steadily increasing since 1999.

    Each year, 100 million firearm owners in the US use their guns safely, appropriately and within the confines of the law, and each year America becomes a safer and less violent society.
    And without the insane and unjustifiable proliferation of guns, it would even safer. The US has a gun homicide rate several times higher than the rest of the developed world.

    Do you have any facts, evidence, statistics, or intelligent arguments to support a nationwide ban and removal of a fundamental right, or are we going to have to put up with more emotional, knee-jerk, crybaby drivel?
    Erm...how about all the statistics that show that the US has the highest gun homicide rate in the delevoped world, by a long margin. Or studies that show that people with a gun in the home are far more likely to be shot that someone without a gun.
    Or the simple logic that it is impossible to shoot someone if you don't have a gun.

    And it's not a "fundamental right", any more than owning slaves was a fundamental right.
    And check out the 21st Amendment.
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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    I am pro-full gun control as in the UK, but even if America is to retain its right to bear arms, why is this not limited to basic handguns only? Why are automatic rifles available for sale? What possible purpose could buying an automatic rifle serve?
    To make it easier for people to kill other people. Dont think there is any other reason really.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    They actually said
    "gun accidents in the home and from being shot by their own children or by other family members"

    It is not a fundamental part of the Constitution. The clue is in the name...2nd Amendment. Do you know what "amendment" means? That's right, a change. So it is neither fundamental, nor immutable.

    Also, the 2nd amend is stated in the context of a "well regulated militia". Care to direct me towards this "wee regulated militia" required by the Constitution?
    Thought not.

    And yet, total firearms deaths have been steadily increasing since 1999.

    And without the insane and unjustifiable proliferation of guns, it would even safer. The US has a gun homicide rate several times higher than the rest of the developed world.

    Erm...how about all the statistics that show that the US has the highest gun homicide rate in the delevoped world, by a long margin. Or studies that show that people with a gun in the home are far more likely to be shot that someone without a gun.
    Or the simple logic that it is impossible to shoot someone if you don't have a gun.

    And it's not a "fundamental right", any more than owning slaves was a fundamental right.
    And check out the 21st Amendment.
    A study is not necessary. I worked that one out myself. Didnt even need a calculator.
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    (Original post by Laomedeia)
    A study is not necessary. I worked that one out myself. Didnt even need a calculator.
    Try telling that to the gun nuts.
    One of their main arguments is "protection of my home and family".
    In reality, keeping a gun in the house puts your family in more danger.
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    (Original post by Laomedeia)
    To make it easier for people to kill other people. Dont think there is any other reason really.
    Some men can't afford a big sports car.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Try telling that to the gun nuts.
    One of their main arguments is "protection of my home and family".
    In reality, keeping a gun in the house puts your family in more danger.
    Yeah I know
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    Can't believe Brits, who are enjoying the safety provided by British gun regulations, would so robustly defend American gun fetishism.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Can't believe Brits, who are enjoying the safety provided by British gun regulations, would so robustly defend American gun fetishism.
    Probably because those Brits would like some more guns.

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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Probably because those Brits would like some more guns.
    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Lol, true.

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    (Original post by QE2)
    They actually said
    "gun accidents in the home and from being shot by their own children or by other family members"
    The majority of gun deaths are suicides, followed by gang related homicides. The number of accidental shootings or murders by family members make up <5% of total gun deaths. Their claim was utter horseshit, as expected of gun control advocates.

    It is not a fundamental part of the Constitution. The clue is in the name...2nd Amendment. Do you know what "amendment" means? That's right, a change. So it is neither fundamental, nor immutable.

    Also, the 2nd amend is stated in the context of a "well regulated militia". Care to direct me towards this "wee regulated militia" required by the Constitution?
    Thought not.
    If you don't think the right to keep and bear arms, and the protection it allows of all other rights and freedoms, was a fundamental part of the US Constitution, you are far too ignorant to bother reasoning with.

    If you are interested in the meaning of well regulated militia, have a read of this:

    http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

    Hint: It did not mean "regulated by the government".

    And yet, total firearms deaths have been steadily increasing since 1999.

    And without the insane and unjustifiable proliferation of guns, it would even safer. The US has a gun homicide rate several times higher than the rest of the developed world..
    Evidence is showing the exact opposite. Guns are being "proliferated" more than ever, as more and more people arm themselves and shall-issue CCW laws expand to all States, and all types of violent crime are plummeting across the US. The increase in firearm related deaths is due to an increasing suicide rate, which is a mental health problem unrelated to the method of suicide (if this is also hard for you to grasp, Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the Western world despite near total gun control).

    Statistics also show that Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, despite having one of the highest gun ownership rates. The UK has one of the highest crime rates in Western Europe, despite having one of the lowest gun ownership rates, and experienced an instant near-doubling of homicide rates following its failed 1996 gun ban. Now unlike you, I am not ignorant enough of statistics and research to try and draw a direct causal relationship here and claim that guns de facto make us safer. What it does do however, is expose your claims that guns make society more dangerous, as total unfounded ********.

    All real world facts and evidence point to the exact opposite of your agenda. Gun control will never happen in the US, more and more citizens will wise up and arm themselves, and the US will continue to become safer year on year. Freedom, deal with it!
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Another liberal pulling gun statistics out of their ass - do they clone you in a factory?

    There are approximately 600 accidental firearm deaths per year in the US (591 in 2011 according to the CDC), and around 9000 firearm homicides per year. So no, accidents do not make up a significant proportion of gun deaths - in fact, a similar number of people die each year from falling out of bed as being accidentally shot. Time to ban sleeping!

    What basis do you have for removing one of the most fundamental part of the US Constitution (then conducting a wildy implausible and absurd nationwide sweep of 300 million firearms)? Real world evidence shows a rapid increase in the number of armed citizens as CCW laws have now expanded to the majority of States, coupled with a more-than-halving of homicide rates over the past 30 years. Each year, 100 million firearm owners in the US use their guns safely, appropriately and within the confines of the law, and each year America becomes a safer and less violent society.

    Do you have any facts, evidence, statistics, or intelligent arguments to support a nationwide ban and removal of a fundamental right, or are we going to have to put up with more emotional, knee-jerk, crybaby drivel?
    Why don't you go the USA then? Cyaaa don't like fascists and gun nuts here anyway. I do wonder how stupid someone has to be when they support guns and gun ownership. This country is perfectly safe..USA mean while. How many unarmed black guys have they shot down this year or the past 3 years? If you cant trust the police with guns how can you trust a bunch of chavs or obese gun nuts?
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    (Original post by Themini)
    Why don't you go the USA then? Cyaaa don't like fascists and gun nuts here anyway. I do wonder how stupid someone has to be when they support guns and gun ownership.
    We're on page 8 and not one gun control advocate has presented anything other than crybaby emotional outbursts void of evidence or reason. I think this says a lot for the quality of anti-gun arguments!
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    We're on page 8 and not one gun control advocate has presented anything other than crybaby emotional outbursts void of evidence or reason. I think this says a lot for the quality of anti-gun arguments!
    They have, you're just a simple minded rural type that doesn't understand the implication of carrying a lethal weapon especially with no prior requirement to have been trained to use that weapon safely, store securely and use in combat- having a lethal weapon in the house and having a lethal weapon cheaply available for the masses at Walmart.

    Anyone who is pro-gun has insecurities and self image issues. We're not living in Syria or Iraq for god sake.
    In a modern 21st century democratic western country you don't need guns..but then again the USA isn't a modern 21st democratic western country.
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    (Original post by Themini)
    They have, you're just a simple minded rural type that doesn't understand the implication of carrying a lethal weapon especially with no prior requirement to have been trained to use that weapon- having a lethal weapon in the house and having a lethal weapon cheaply available for the masses at Walmart.

    Anyone who is pro-gun has insecurities and self image issues. We're not living in Syria or Iraq for god sake.
    In a modern 21st century democratic western country you don't need guns..but then again the USA isn't a modern 21st democratic western country.
    Most democratic Western European countries actually have quite high rates of firearm ownership- see Switzerland, Norway, Austria, Sweden, Germany to name a few. All of these nations have considerably lower crime rates than the UK. But you didn't know that did you, because your knowledge about gun ownership goes no further than what you saw on a BBC news article about an American school shooting.

    History has shown us that gun control has been one of the first steps taken during tyranny and genocide, not democracy and freedom. Free, democratic nations (even the UK prior to the past 50 or so years) have always permitted individual ownership of firearms as a fundamental right.

    Your ignorance is, quite frankly, astounding.
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Most democratic Western European countries actually have quite high rates of firearm ownership- see Switzerland, Norway, Austria, Sweden, Germany to name a few. All of these nations have considerably lower crime rates than the UK. But you didn't know that did you, because your knowledge about gun ownership goes no further than what you saw on a BBC news article about an American school shooting.

    History has shown us that gun control has been one of the first steps taken during tyranny and genocide, not democracy and freedom. Free, democratic nations (even the UK prior to the past 50 or so years) have always permitted individual ownership of firearms as a fundamental right.

    Your ignorance is, quite frankly, astounding.
    That made me chuckle.

    Guns per capita:
    USA - 112.3
    Germany- 30.3
    Norway - 30.4
    Finland- 27.5
    Austria-30.4

    What's that about high gun ownership? So GG 10/10 for comparing a country which has 30 guns per 100 head and one with 112 per 100. almost 3/4 as much.

    Needless to say, not only are there fewer guns in Europe, its highly regulated unlike the US.
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    (Original post by Themini)
    That made me chuckle.

    Guns per capita:
    USA - 112.3
    Germany- 30.3
    Norway - 30.4
    Finland- 27.5
    Austria-30.4

    What's that about high gun ownership?
    One gun per 3 or so people is relatively high. For comparison, the UK's gun ownership rate is around 5 per 100, or one in 20.

    This is the part where you need to explain to me how these European nations are considerably safer than the UK despite having between 6-8 times higher rates of gun ownership.
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    One gun per 3 or so people is relatively high. For comparison, the UK's gun ownership rate is around 5 per 100, or one in 20.

    This is the part where you need to explain to me how these European nations are considerably safer than the UK despite having between 6-8 times higher rates of gun ownership.
    FYI UK gun ownership is 6.6 per capita. Weren't you the snivelling little hypocrite having a go at the anti-gun commenters regarding statistics?

    FYI Germany has 30 guns per 100 head and USA has 112 per 100 head.
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    (Original post by Themini)
    FYI UK gun ownership is 6.6 per capita. Weren't you the snivelling little hypocrite having a go at the anti-gun commenters regarding statistics?
    Answer the question asked rather than desperately trying to deflect to what was an approximation:

    Why are European countries with several times higher rates of gun ownership than the UK, considerably safer than the UK? Why is Switzerland one of the safest nations on Earth despite very liberal attitudes towards firearms?
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Answer the question asked rather than desperately trying to deflect to what was an approximation:

    Why are European countries with several times higher rates of gun ownership than the UK, considerably safer than the UK? Why is Switzerland one of the safest nations on Earth despite very liberal attitudes towards firearms?
    Because they're highly regulated by laws and regulations. That's the issue I have with the US. From my first post, it quite clearly states that I'm not happy about the fact anyone can go to Walmart and buy a gun off the shelf during their weekly shop without any back ground or medical checks to make sure they aren't psychotic. I'm not happy with high power, high magazine capacity automatic weapons.

    The Swiss Weapons Act requires an acquisition license for handguns and a carrying license for the carrying of any permitted firearm for defensive purposes. Exceptions exist for hunters. Automatic weapons are banned.

    Edit: since you're trying to deflect all my counters, show me what proof you have that murder rates per capita are higher in the UK than Germany or USA. Show me any reliable sources that back your opinions on gun control.

    Good luck
 
 
 
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