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Muslim group urges members to break fast and donate blood after Orlando shootings Watch

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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    So then you can't argue against Ahmadi Muslims based on the Hadith posted by MrsSheldonCooper.Okay, now we have got that sorted.



    No, you just failed to make a point and are now backtracking. Come on simba.
    I can if I use your(and her) logic. I'm afraid nothing is sorted, you just seem confused

    I'm not. The hadith doesn't apply to them whilst I have my Epicurean cap on, so they're fair game to those of us who called them non-Muslims. I'm surprised though, Epicurean didn't write a 5000 essay on nonsensical points, so I'll have to give you the thumbs up for that. Although QE2 may yet give like 20 quotes later when I'm banned :teehee:
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    (Original post by A-LJLB)
    Just because you and a couple of others were in a debate about it and you were the last to post haha. Nothing personal!
    Fair enough. I have no problem with that then. I guess I should call it time and go elsewhere anyway.
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    (Original post by Scythia)
    Not really bro. Most of the times their view is pretty much the same as the scholars of old. Wahaabi is just a term shot at people to devalue their Islam.

    Can you not copy and paste vast texts? It doesn't really help prove what you're getting at.
    if you want to believe that then fine. that's your opinion. i can't be bothered to debate with somebody who can't realise that indian deobandis are literally self-described wahhabis lmfao.
    the fact that you spell wahhabi as wahaabi simply proves your ignorance on this matter; it makes you sound like those people who spell muslim as moslem rn lmfao.

    i'm sorry if i'm sounding rude but it just kinda pisses me off when people fail to realise how this group has politicised a religion and has throughout its history and in current era used islam to justify territorial expansion which involved the slaughter of innocent muslims and non-muslims alike.
    nothing's wrong with islamic fundamentalism as long as it remains theologian but the wahhabi/salafi sect (along with the deobandi) were founded and continue to carry out their actions for purely materialistic, earthly, selfish desires which served the arisocrats and custodians rather than to serve God.
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    I wouldn't call them Muslims, the teachings of Ahmad are the polar opposite of those of Mohammad. Ahmad was a wonderful man who encouraged his followers to love everyone for who they are. His teachings are often summed up in the words "love for all, hate for none" by the Ahmadis. Having studied their beliefs myself, I can tell you that they're probably the only sect of Islam which is completely compatible with western (or any other secular) society. The Ahmadis don't deserve the negative connotations of the word "muslim."

    It really doesn't surprise me that they're doing something like this. As I said before, they're unlike any other sect of Islam. If there's an afterlife, may the Buddha bless both the Ahmadis taking part in this and the victims of the attack. If not, I wish them all the best anyway.
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    (Original post by Scythia)
    I can if I use your(and her) logic. I'm afraid nothing is sorted, you just seem confused

    I'm not. The hadith doesn't apply to them whilst I have my Epicurean cap on, so they're fair game to those of us who called them non-Muslims. I'm surprised though, Epicurean didn't write a 5000 essay on nonsensical points, so I'll have to give you the thumbs up for that.
    Ah yes, I forgot, you can't debate so you just resort to ad hominems.

    Are you taking suggestions for usernames for your new account that you will be creating in a day or two?
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    (Original post by nucdev)
    Lmfaoooooo you know the debate would have naturally happened even if I hadn't have commented, right?

    :rofl:
    I totally agree, and its not like there haven't been any negative comments (to put it mildly) made towards the Ahmaddiya community on this thread, made by other members
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    Ahmaddiyas are not Muslim though. It is like someone saying they believe in God, but are Anti-Thiest. Or, someone who belives in evolution, but is anti-science.
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    (Original post by Scythia)
    Fair enough. I have no problem with that then. I guess I should call it time and go elsewhere anyway.
    You sound so familiar.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    You sound so familiar.


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    He is an isoc member who goes behind people's back with duplicate accounts.
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    (Original post by ssshah2)
    I totally agree, and its not like there haven't been any negative comments (to put it mildly) made towards the Ahmaddiya community on this thread, made by other members
    But it does need to be said that I am totally against the branding of this issue as that of a 'muslim sect donating blood'. I am no scholar on islam, nor have I the intention of ever becoming one, but I believe that this act should be praised for what it is, a compassionate and humane response to a tragic event.
    Even if they aren't considered muslims, they are still making a sacrifice of their beliefs to be compassionate, and for that, regardless of what our stances on religion are, they ought to be congratulated and feted.
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    (Original post by ssshah2)
    But it does need to be said that I am totally against the branding of this issue as that of a 'muslim sect donating blood'. I am no scholar on islam, nor have I the intention of ever becoming one, but I believe that this act should be praised for what it is, a compassionate and humane response to a tragic event.
    Even if they aren't considered muslims, they are still making a sacrifice of their beliefs to be compassionate, and for that, regardless of what our stances on religion are, they ought to be congratulated and feted.
    Hear, hear.
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    (Original post by dairychocolate)
    Tbh, I think it's a pointless discussion.

    Non-muslims will keep seeing Ahmadis as Muslims. From my perspective, there are too many similarities for me to consider them separate religions.

    That silly yat who told them to 'sod off' based on their religion was quite embarrassing, too.
    Yay, I'm a silly yat
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    Firstly, blood is no longer needed in Orlando and some centers are asking people to return later as they do not need it.

    Secondly, why should normal muslims break their own fast to makeup for the actions of someone else who is not even an actual muslim- in that he obviously did not abide by the sayings on the Quran.

    It is like me asking all white men to donate blood to make up for the actions of the Columbine killers? It is not their responsibility.

    If there was a shortage of blood then of course it would be fine to tell all people to donate blood not just muslims. But blood in Orlando is not lacking and people are suggesting specifically muslims do it when all people should.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    I wouldn't call them Muslims, the teachings of Ahmad are the polar opposite of those of Mohammad. Ahmad was a wonderful man who encouraged his followers to love everyone for who they are. His teachings are often summed up in the words "love for all, hate for none" by the Ahmadis. Having studied their beliefs myself, I can tell you that they're probably the only sect of Islam which is completely compatible with western (or any other secular) society. The Ahmadis don't deserve the negative connotations of the word "muslim."

    It really doesn't surprise me that they're doing something like this. As I said before, they're unlike any other sect of Islam. If there's an afterlife, may the Buddha bless both the Ahmadis taking part in this and the victims of the attack. If not, I wish them all the best anyway.
    From where did you get the notion that the Buddha could "bless" something/someone?



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    Hola, ok I need to clear some things up.

    First of all, some will say Ahmadiyyas are Muslim (mostly non-Muslims) and some will say they aren't, my opinion/fact still stays.

    #2 I never said Ahmadiyyas are bad people nor am I judging them for it. They could be amazing people for all I know. I mean you do you boo boo but if you're telling Muslims to break their fast then what are you doing.

    #3 I made the comment "Telling Muslims to break their fast is good?" I did not mention donating blood or anything else, just this simple question. The answer is "No", answering this sole question alone.

    #4 Answering your comments about breaking your fast when donating blood. Muslims can donate their blood after opening the fast, I mean it isn't a big deal? Aren't there other people's blood available? People can get blood from other people who aren't fasting, which are a lot of people.

    #5 Again, as I've mentioned before I don't believe punishments by death are right generally because they aren't our lives to take. Also, I'm not qualified or educated in the Qur'an or the hadith so people need to stop taking out bits from the Qur'an and hadith, removing it from it's context and expecting us to respond to it properly like no.

    I think there were a few more points I wanted to say but this is all I can remember at the moment.

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    (Original post by Sciatic)
    From where did you get the notion that the Buddha could "bless" something/someone?



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    From the Suttas of the Tripitaka of Theravada Buddhism. If you read the Vimanavatthu of the Khudakka Nikaya you'll see that according to the Dhamma, those who've achieved awakening are reborn as deities in the realm of the gods when they die and are henceforth free from the cycle of death and rebirth. If that's true then the Buddha is there among them. I don't actually believe in such things, but I was just saying that if it turns out to be true then may the Buddha look after them.
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    (Original post by 34908seikj)
    I don't know the difference, is there a difference?
    They believe in a Prophet after Muhammad (PBUH); they claim he is the Messiah but still he claimed to receive revelations (which would make him a Prophet/Messenger). In reality, it's founder was a deviant who died whilst whilst taking a scat.

    As others have said, generally the Ahmadiyyah are outside of the fold of Islam, and this is consensus amongst both Shia and Sunni scholars; it is up to any Ahmadi individual to prove that they are Muslim.
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    (Original post by Ciel.)
    Nah, they shouldn't, right? It could anger 'allah'. Who cares about some victims, let them bleed to death. What a little extremist you are *rolls eyes*
    You are allowed to break your fast in circumstances like this.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prays like us and faces our Qibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah's and His Apostle's protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection."Found in: Prayers (Salat)



    Ahmadis do all the things that are said in that Hadith. So hate to break it to all the ignorant idiots on here but they are Muslims.




    Here's the Quran verse btw

    Mrs.Grey
    1. It is a hadith which is a saying of the Prophet, not the Quran.
    2. This is within a specific frame of understanding and must also work with other rules (see 4).

    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Funny how some members of the ISOC openly choose the word of scholars (who can easily make mistakes) over the "word of God".

    Quite literally showing a Hadith in their face and they say its wrong. Tut tut.

    Ahmadis are honestly some of the loveliest people I've ever met tbh. I just find it sad how they're not even allowed to go to Saudi Arabia because they aren't considered real Muslims.
    3. Reitterating that it's not the word of God.
    4. If a person fulfils all the conditions of the hadith, but believes in idols, for example, according to your logic he is Muslim; this is clearly a rudamentary understanding since the Quran declares idolators as disbelievers. This is clear evidence that the criteria for being a Muslim is much broader than the limited understanding you have based on this hadith.
    5. Scholars look at multiple sources of evidence and use various methodologies in defining the finer points of Islamic creed, and that is why they are more qualified than lay people like you and I in determining a working understanding of Islam.
    6. Being a nice person does not change the validity of what one believes, as you are well aware - hell, that's why non-Muslims slam Islam so much on here.

    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Not trying to be rude or anything but who on Earth are you to decide they aren't real Muslims? Ahmadis are the most peaceful sect of Islam and is arguably pretty much the only sect compatible with the West and yet they get called traitors to their religion.
    7. As mentioned, there are criteria which define a Muslim; Ahmadiyyah do not fulfill these and therefore they are not Muslim. Anyone who knows the criteria can thus judge whether they are Muslim or not. Muslims generally are cautious to declare others non-Muslim but when it is clear cut, then that is allowed.
    8. As QE2 once admitted himself, people outside of a club who do not meet the mininum requirements cannot claim to be apart of the club but then complain when they aren't acknowledged as members and try to bend the rules of the majority of the club to join it.
    9. So what if they are more compatible with the West? Again that does not lend validity to their beliefs since having acceptable views to Westerners is not a definitive measure of what actually is Islamic and what is not.

    It would be a mistake to apply such rudamentary understanding and cherrypicking to make a point which conforms to your views.
 
 
 
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