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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Creating the Heavens AND Earth in 6 days =/= creating the Earth in 2 days =/= creating the earth and filling it in 4 days.



    Again, give me real internal contradictions please.
    It's like you don't know what a contradiction means.

    One verse claims it took allah 6 days to create the heavens and the earth, the other one said he created it in 2 days, so how isn't that a contradiction?

    Another clear contradiction is the purpose of creating man. And if they need God.

    One verse says that God created man for his own reasons, while the other says that it's man that actually needs God

    (51:56)
    "I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve me

    35:15

    "O mankind! It is you that have need of God: but God is the One Free of all wants, worthy of all praise"
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    Another clear one is who is to be blamed for wrong doings.

    One verse says that allah is the one who misguides some people, whilst another says allah has no business in misleading some people.

    (35:8)
    "Allah leaves stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills"

    (30:9)
    "It was not Allah who wronged them, but they wronged their own souls"
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    It's like you don't know what a contradiction means.

    One verse claims it took allah 6 days to create the heavens and the earth, the other one said he created it in 2 days, so how isn't that a contradiction?

    Another clear contradiction is the purpose of creating man. And if they need God.

    One verse says that God created man for his own reasons, while the other says that it's man that actually needs God

    (51:56)
    "I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve me

    35:15

    "O mankind! It is you that have need of God: but God is the One Free of all wants, worthy of all praise"
    Clearly you don't understand what a contradiction is either. If Allah creates the Earth in 2 days, and he creates the Heavens AND Earth in 6, then its like me building a house in 1 month, and it took me 15 days to furnish it, so it took me 1 month and 15 days to build and furnish the house; this is the ignorant moment you'd quip that building the house and funishing it in 1 month and 15 days contradicts building the house in 1 month, which that is clearly stupid.

    Again that doesn't contradict in a way that invalidates Islam :rofl: If I build a car which needs a driver but I dont actually need the car, where is the problem in that?
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    Oh ffs not another one.
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    Another clear one is who is to be blamed for wrong doings.

    One verse says that allah is the one who misguides some people, whilst another says allah has no business in misleading some people.

    (35:8)
    "Allah leaves stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills"

    (30:9)
    "It was not Allah who wronged them, but they wronged their own souls"
    Classic non-Muslim chestnut :lol:

    "Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient"

    From this ayah, you can now understand the ayaat you posted - those who believe reflect on the ayaat and examples of the Quran and are thus guided thereby, whereas those who disbelieve question each small thing and turn away in blind rejection and arrogance and are thus lead astray thereby - that is how one is lead astray by Allah whilst still wronging them ownselves - it is not Allah making you reject the ayaat, that is your fault.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Clearly you don't understand what a contradiction is either. If Allah creates the Earth in 2 days, and he creates the Heavens AND Earth in 6, then its like me building a house in 1 month, and it took me 15 days to furnish it, so it took me 1 month and 15 days to build and furnish the house; this is the ignorant moment you'd quip that building the house and funishing it in 1 month and 15 days contradicts building the house in 1 month, which that is clearly stupid.

    Again that doesn't contradict in a way that invalidates Islam :rofl: If I build a car which needs a driver but I dont actually need the car, where is the problem in that?


    If that's the case why then did it say in this verse that it took him four days to set the earth, when the other Ayah said 2 days? The contradiction isn't the 2 days bit, read the verses I put out and stop putting your own twist on things.

    Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYSObvious Flaws
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Classic non-Muslim chestnut :lol:

    "Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient"

    From this ayah, you can now understand the ayaat you posted - those who believe reflect on the ayaat and examples of the Quran and are thus guided thereby, whereas those who disbelieve question each small thing and turn away in blind rejection and arrogance and are thus lead astray thereby - that is how one is lead astray by Allah whilst still wronging them ownselves - it is not Allah making you reject the ayaat, that is your fault.


    That has nothing to do with the verses I uploaded, the first says that allah strays people away, yet the next one says he doesn't, that's an obvious contradiciton and supporting verses can't change that.
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    If that's the case why then did it say in this verse that it took him four days to set the earth, when the other Ayah said 2 days? The contradiction isn't the 2 days bit, read the verses I put out and stop putting your own twist on things.

    Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYSObvious Flaws
    Your understanding is still rudimentary - the creation of the Earth was in two days; creation of the Earth AND making it habitable was in four days.

    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    That has nothing to do with the verses I uploaded, the first says that allah strays people away, yet the next one says he doesn't, that's an obvious contradiciton and supporting verses can't change that.
    A supporting verse destroyed the contradiction which arose because of your understanding (or there lack of) - by explaining the verses it is no longer a contradiction. Your objection is futile, and this ironically proves my explanation that you are lead astray by your blind rejection of Allah's verses, not because Allah is at fault for you being astray.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Your understanding is still rudimentary - the creation of the Earth was in two days; creation of the Earth AND making it habitable was in four days.
    That makes no sense, when we are saying allah created the earth, he didn't say that he created the earth in 2 days, and then made it habitable in 4 days, if that was what allah really meant he would have said it as Qur'an 12:1 says that everything in the book is perfectly clear and 44:58 says it was written to be easily understand.

    That is obviously not true if you need some other people to continuously correct and interpret this supposedly perfectly clear book. If any one has rudimentary knowledge it's you.

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    A supporting verse destroyed the contradiction which arose because of your understanding (or there lack of) - by explaining the verses it is no longer a contradiction. Your objection is futile, and this ironically proves my explanation that you are lead astray by your blind rejection of Allah's verses, not because Allah is at fault for you being astray.

    No it didn't.

    One verse clearly states that allah doesn't lead people astray and the other says he doesn't. I can even produce the arabic if you still don't believe.

    The two verses are obvious contradicitons, where did you even find that verse you are talking about?
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    That makes no sense, when we are saying allah created the earth, he didn't say that he created the earth in 2 days, and then made it habitable in 4 days, if that was what allah really meant he would have said it as Qur'an 12:1 says that everything in the book is perfectly clear and 44:58 says it was written to be easily understand.

    That is obviously not true if you need some other people to continuously correct and interpret this supposedly perfectly clear book. If any one has rudimentary knowledge it's you.

    No it didn't.

    One verse clearly states that allah doesn't lead people astray and the other says he doesn't. I can even produce the arabic if you still don't believe.

    The two verses are obvious contradicitons, where did you even find that verse you are talking about?
    It makes perfect sense but you cannot fathom what I explained very simply - your problem is that you find it unclear and I find it perfectly clear. The issue here is not the text but rather you really struggling to understand that the two verses do not contradict. I do not know how else to explain it because I think my explanation was as dumbed down as I could make it.

    Actually one verse says says that Allah leaves astray whom He wills and another says that people wrong themselves. If I give you a map and you refuse to look at it, is it my fault that I didn't take you by the hand and physically guide you myself, or rather is it your fault for refusing to look at the map? Clearly again you show a lack of understanding. It seems you lack the simple ability to reason with what you are reading, because your denial of being wrong is pitiful.

    Give me more 'contradictions', they are making me smile :lol:
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    Defending the most dangerous ideology since Fascism and Stalinism..... hmmmm...... wierd.

    Oh I forgot, anyone who is educated about actual islam is ofcourse a filthy bigot.

    Next Up: "ISIS has nothing to do with Islam" ....
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    Lol at Asian people on the tele earlier like 'it's the immigrants there's not enough jobs for people. The immigrants will take all the jobs' I'm like errr?? Where's that accent from then?
    The thing is that they have come from commonwealth countries. You know, the countries which actually contributed toward Britain and fought in both world wars.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    It makes perfect sense but you cannot fathom what I explained very simply - your problem is that you find it unclear and I find it perfectly clear. The issue here is not the text but rather you really struggling to understand that the two verses do not contradict. I do not know how else to explain it because I think my explanation was as dumbed down as I could make it.
    I have no problem with fathoming things that actually have reason and sense which is why I struggle to understand any of the rubbish you say or your supposed attempt at explaining a blatant contradiction in a book that claims to be perfectly readable, free from error and easy to understand.

    What a joke filled with even more jokes.

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Actually one verse says says that Allah leaves astray whom He wills and another says that people wrong themselves. If I give you a map and you refuse to look at it, is it my fault that I didn't take you by the hand and physically guide you myself, or rather is it your fault for refusing to look at the map? Clearly again you show a lack of understanding. It seems you lack the simple ability to reason with what you are reading, because your denial of being wrong is pitiful.
    "
    Actually one verse says says that Allah leaves astray whom He wills and another says that people wrong themselves. If I give you a map and you refuse to look at it, is it my fault that I didn't take you by the hand and physically guide you myself, or rather is it your fault for refusing to look at the map?"

    What a daft analogy. The verse says that allah has a hand in the people that are led astray meaning that he before creation already had it set up the people who would make your heaven and the people who wouldn't, then another verse says that allah has no hand in that and people are the ones who lead themselves astray on their own, and you;re telling me that I'm the one who doesn't understand what I'm saying?

    Rich. Also funny how it took you 2 days to put out a refutation, which was even a dull one.

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Give me more 'contradictions', they are making me smile :lol:
    Besides Allah you have NO protector nor helper
    Qur'an 2:107 and Qur'an 29:22

    "We are your protectors in this life and the Hereafter." Said the angels in Qur'an 41:31

    What a joke of a holy book :rofl:
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    (Original post by SGHD26716)
    The thing is that they have come from commonwealth countries. You know, the countries which actually contributed toward Britain and fought in both world wars.
    the same way the people from european countries did!
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    I don't get why people can't get through their skulls that Muslims migrate from outside the EU?

    Ffs
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    (Original post by Serine Soul)
    I don't get why people can't get through their skulls that Muslims migrate from outside the EU?

    Ffs
    They would probably call you a racist for pointing that out to them.


    Trust me, I've experienced it


    Only today even
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    I have no problem with fathoming things that actually have reason and sense which is why I struggle to understand any of the rubbish you say or your supposed attempt at explaining a blatant contradiction in a book that claims to be perfectly readable, free from error and easy to understand.

    What a joke filled with even more jokes.



    "
    Actually one verse says says that Allah leaves astray whom He wills and another says that people wrong themselves. If I give you a map and you refuse to look at it, is it my fault that I didn't take you by the hand and physically guide you myself, or rather is it your fault for refusing to look at the map?"

    What a daft analogy. The verse says that allah has a hand in the people that are led astray meaning that he before creation already had it set up the people who would make your heaven and the people who wouldn't, then another verse says that allah has no hand in that and people are the ones who lead themselves astray on their own, and you;re telling me that I'm the one who doesn't understand what I'm saying?

    Rich. Also funny how it took you 2 days to put out a refutation, which was even a dull one.



    Besides Allah you have NO protector nor helper
    Qur'an 2:107 and Qur'an 29:22

    "We are your protectors in this life and the Hereafter." Said the angels in Qur'an 41:31

    What a joke of a holy book :rofl:
    I reiterate that it is not a contradiction and just the fault of your (lack of) comprehension skills because I have explained it several times. I'm sure even your fellow anti-Islamites would wonder why you are struggling to grasp that creating the Earth in 2 days =/= creating AND making it habitable in 4.

    Maybe a maths equation might dumb it down for you enough to understand:

    A = 2

    A + B = 4

    A =/= A + B

    Your objection to this is academically and logically stupid. My response was late as I did not receive a notification for the quote; I only found it because I came on the thread to read what others had said.

    --

    The concept of freewill vs predestination is admittedly difficult to grasp, however that does not mean that these verses contradict as my analogy actually still stands. You have the choice to believe now, you have a choice to eat a carrot, and you have a choice to punch yourself in the face etc; your argument that God predestined your life to go in such a way that your psychology would compel you to reject Islam is as stupid as Shaytaan blaming God for making him too arrogant to prostrate to Adam. The reality is you have a choice right now this very second, so you can only blame yourself for disbelieving.

    --

    You have a habit of picking out weak contradictions.

    By your incorrect understanding, if one were to ask another man to help protect him, or if a man was to ask a doctor to help cure him, he would be contradicting that verse. The truth is that if one is helped or protected by another, that only occurs by the will and permission of God, and if anyone tried to help or protect that man and God did not permit it, then they would not be able to help or protect you, thus they do not actually contradict.

    You call it a joke but you have still not provided a single contradiction which stands; I don't know if I've addressed everyone you raised so far but there are already explanations for half of them if you ever bothered looking. I wouldn't have become a Muslim and left my agnostic beliefs if I had found flaw and faults in Islam - actually reading AND learning does wonders, you know, rather than just limited reading. Look deeper than just very superficial and ill informed interpretations because that is where you are slipping up every time.
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    My dad's a Muslim and voted leave because 'immigration', the fool.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    I reiterate that it is not a contradiction and just the fault of your (lack of) comprehension skills because I have explained it several times. I'm sure even your fellow anti-Islamites would wonder why you are struggling to grasp that creating the Earth in 2 days =/= creating AND making it habitable in 4.

    Maybe a maths equation might dumb it down for you enough to understand:

    A = 2

    A + B = 4

    A =/= A + B

    Your objection to this is academically and logically stupid. My response was late as I did not receive a notification for the quote; I only found it because I came on the thread to read what others had said.

    --

    The concept of freewill vs predestination is admittedly difficult to grasp, however that does not mean that these verses contradict as my analogy actually still stands. You have the choice to believe now, you have a choice to eat a carrot, and you have a choice to punch yourself in the face etc; your argument that God predestined your life to go in such a way that your psychology would compel you to reject Islam is as stupid as Shaytaan blaming God for making him too arrogant to prostrate to Adam. The reality is you have a choice right now this very second, so you can only blame yourself for disbelieving.
    --
    Absolutely redunant and yet another futile explanation.
    The Qur'an says MULTIPLE times, that this book is a book that is free from errors and easy to understand, so going by what the Qur'an says i can read the Qur'an and understand it easily in one or maybe 2 tries, so looking at a verse that clearly says that allah has infact led people astray, then later on reading the book seeing the same allah claim that it was not infact him that led the people astray but their own free will is a contradiction of what he said earlier, and no amount of mathematical equations or analogies you provide can change it.
    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    You have a habit of picking out weak contradictions.

    By your incorrect understanding, if one were to ask another man to help protect him, or if a man was to ask a doctor to help cure him, he would be contradicting that verse. The truth is that if one is helped or protected by another, that only occurs by the will and permission of God, and if anyone tried to help or protect that man and God did not permit it, then they would not be able to help or protect you, thus they do not actually contradict.
    "
    The truth is that if one is helped or protected by another, that only occurs by the will and permission of God, and if anyone tried to help or protect that man and God did not permit it "

    If that's the case, why then does the Qur'an not mention any of that nonsense? Why didn't the Qur'an say "Through allah we angels have come to you as your protectors" why didn't they acknoledge allah in the ayah, isn't the Qur'an supposed to be absolutely detailed and perfectly clear and understandable? Why do I have to go to a muslim (who doesn't even know what he's talking about) on a student forum to know what the angels really meant here?

    Only explanation is that either the Qur'an isn't perfectly clear because they didn't mention allah in that verse, or it's a contradicition as the angels on their own are the protectors, it's one of the 2, you can't have your cake and eat it.


    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    You call it a joke but you have still not provided a single contradiction which stands; I don't know if I've addressed everyone you raised so far but there are already explanations for half of them if you ever bothered looking. I wouldn't have become a Muslim and left my agnostic beliefs if I had found flaw and faults in Islam - actually reading AND learning does wonders, you know, rather than just limited reading. Look deeper than just very superficial and ill informed interpretations because that is where you are slipping up every time.

    "
    I wouldn't have become a Muslim and left my agnostic beliefs if I had found flaw and faults in Islam"

    Again that is a compeltely irrelevant, illogical and redundant statement or argument as there were many members of the Nazi party that said that they only joined it because they couldn't see anything wrong in what they are doing, and we know how that ended. Mormons said that the only reason why the became mormons was because anytime they prayed, they felt a fire in their belly and knew it was the truth.

    Just because you claim that Islam is free from errors that doesn't make it so, and based on your overall knowledge of islam, it's certainly not true, and it's laughable for you to claim that the Qur'an is free from error and flaws when in

    Qu'ran 18:83-86


    ""They will ask thee of Dhu'l-Qarneyn [Zul-Qarnain]. Say: I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him. Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road. And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness." Sura 18:83-86 (Pickthall’s translation)"


    This Verse of the Qu'ran just said that Alexander the Great (Dhu'l Qarneyn) travelled so far west that he found the setting place of the sun. And it's in a pool of Murky water. And that people live there, which is a clear flaw if I ever saw one.

    And don't even give me the typical argument that the Perfectly clear book actually meant time and not place because I can produce a hadith where Muhammed himself said the same thing when his followers asked him where the sun sets.

    If only they asked a person who actually had a clue what he was talking about.
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    --
    Absolutely redunant and yet another futile explanation.
    The Qur'an says MULTIPLE times, that this book is a book that is free from errors and easy to understand, so going by what the Qur'an says i can read the Qur'an and understand it easily in one or maybe 2 tries, so looking at a verse that clearly says that allah has infact led people astray, then later on reading the book seeing the same allah claim that it was not infact him that led the people astray but their own free will is a contradiction of what he said earlier, and no amount of mathematical equations or analogies you provide can change it.


    "
    The truth is that if one is helped or protected by another, that only occurs by the will and permission of God, and if anyone tried to help or protect that man and God did not permit it "

    If that's the case, why then does the Qur'an not mention any of that nonsense? Why didn't the Qur'an say "Through allah we angels have come to you as your protectors" why didn't they acknoledge allah in the ayah, isn't the Qur'an supposed to be absolutely detailed and perfectly clear and understandable? Why do I have to go to a muslim (who doesn't even know what he's talking about) on a student forum to know what the angels really meant here?

    Only explanation is that either the Qur'an isn't perfectly clear because they didn't mention allah in that verse, or it's a contradicition as the angels on their own are the protectors, it's one of the 2, you can't have your cake and eat it.





    "
    I wouldn't have become a Muslim and left my agnostic beliefs if I had found flaw and faults in Islam"

    Again that is a compeltely irrelevant, illogical and redundant statement or argument as there were many members of the Nazi party that said that they only joined it because they couldn't see anything wrong in what they are doing, and we know how that ended. Mormons said that the only reason why the became mormons was because anytime they prayed, they felt a fire in their belly and knew it was the truth.

    Just because you claim that Islam is free from errors that doesn't make it so, and based on your overall knowledge of islam, it's certainly not true, and it's laughable for you to claim that the Qur'an is free from error and flaws when in

    Qu'ran 18:83-86


    ""They will ask thee of Dhu'l-Qarneyn [Zul-Qarnain]. Say: I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him. Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road. And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness." Sura 18:83-86 (Pickthall’s translation)"


    This Verse of the Qu'ran just said that Alexander the Great (Dhu'l Qarneyn) travelled so far west that he found the setting place of the sun. And it's in a pool of Murky water. And that people live there, which is a clear flaw if I ever saw one.

    And don't even give me the typical argument that the Perfectly clear book actually meant time and not place because I can produce a hadith where Muhammed himself said the same thing when his followers asked him where the sun sets.

    If only they asked a person who actually had a clue what he was talking about.
    Cbb responding to you anymore because it appears you lack the basic analytical skills to understand relatively straightforward stuff. If you wish to point out where the Quran says it is a clear book, I will also point out that the Quran instructs you to also think and reflect, but it appears that you refuse to do that; or are you going too pull out another cracker and say that the Quran contradicts itself by saying it's clear and also to think and reflect on the verses? :rofl:
    Anyway, the Quran is easy but it also isn't idiot-proof.

    I understand what you are saying, but my point is that my reading and learning and pondering has been sufficient to reach a stronger conclusion.

    That last bit is not a contradiction and again you conflate a perceived scientific error with an internal contradiction. Either way all Muslims know and understand this verse to not literally mean setting in muddy water, rather only being the appearance thereof.

    May Allah guide you.
 
 
 
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