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    (Original post by meenu89)
    TSR has always been like this. The country never ever votes like TSR, some posters on TSR think they are all that matters. A poll on TSR is never an indication of how the country will vote.
    It isn't even an indication of how 18-24 will vote most of the time

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    I know democracy is a privilege we should all hold dear. But the fairness of democracy is severely limited when people are fed propaganda and broken-promises by a campaign and the media.

    You had the right to make a decision, great, democracy. But your decision was severely influenced by lies, dirty tactics and propaganda. Is that really what a fair democracy is?

    A lot of the people who voted for Brexit were uneducated, and boy did the Brexit campaign know that. They knew that those uneducated individuals would be so easily influenced by hatred towards immigration, and false promises about the £350m saved going towards the NHS. Anyone with some sense would smell the horse **** a mile off, but they didn't have to worry about that when most of their voters didn't have an ounce of sense.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    I know democracy is a privilege we should all hold dear. But the fairness of democracy is severely limited when people are fed propaganda and broken-promises by a campaign and the media.

    You had the right to make a decision, great, democracy. But your decision was severely influenced by lies, dirty tactics and propaganda. Is that really what a fair democracy is?

    A lot of the people who voted for Brexit were uneducated, and boy did the Brexit campaign know that. They knew that those uneducated individuals would be so easily influenced by hatred towards immigration, and false promises about the £350m saved going towards the NHS. Anyone with some sense would smell the horse **** a mile off, but they didn't have to worry about that when most of their voters didn't have an ounce of sense.
    Surely this then is an argument for a totally uninformed vote which is even worse

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Surely this then is an argument for a totally uninformed vote which is even worse

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    Why have you arrived at that conclusion?

    In an ideal world it would have been a better informed vote, driven by independent experts. If people were presented clearly with the expert predictions regarding the economy, jobs and immigration, the results would be rather different I think. A lot of the people I know of who voted to Leave (uneducated people living in the Valleys) had no idea of the economic implications, or of all the EU laws governing our workers rights. Or of all the EU funding we receive such as our universities.

    Although would they even listen to that. I suppose.

    I know a lot of you on TSR are different though, because as a whole you all have an education and at least an average IQ. You wouldn't be on this site otherwise. But then this is where cultural ideologies come into play. But that's psychology and a different story. In short, we only listen to what we want to hear.

    Out of interest, do you or are you planning on attending university?
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    (Original post by Masroor.hussain)
    I don't know y a lot of u r complaining about the referendum.This is how DEMOCRACY WORKS, it is one person one vote and the majority wins, it is not an ideal system but the best system we know, and what do u mean by "checks and balances on the democratic system", if there were checks and balances that would not be a democracy, it would be like the democratic primary in US where super delegates have more power than the normal person just because the establishment thinks the are "intellectually superior" so the know what is best 4 u and me not us, This is FASCISM NOT DEMOCRACY. Again DEMOCRACY is ONE PERSON ONE VOTE WITH OUT CHECKS AND BALANCES!
    But if you elect them DEMOCRATICALLY into power then I would hope you did believe they are "Intellectually superior". No democracy doesn't have to be without checks and balances, as I said, you elected them democratically and that means they do have a certain authority that we should abide by as we elected them into power to represent us and therefore they have a right to checks and balances.

    This isn't facism ffs. Did I say I didn't want democracy? Stop being such a fool.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    I know democracy is a privilege we should all hold dear. But the fairness of democracy is severely limited when people are fed propaganda and broken-promises by a campaign and the media.

    You had the right to make a decision, great, democracy. But your decision was severely influenced by lies, dirty tactics and propaganda. Is that really what a fair democracy is?

    A lot of the people who voted for Brexit were uneducated, and boy did the Brexit campaign know that. They knew that those uneducated individuals would be so easily influenced by hatred towards immigration, and false promises about the £350m saved going towards the NHS. Anyone with some sense would smell the horse **** a mile off, but they didn't have to worry about that when most of their voters didn't have an ounce of sense.
    This is honestly the most upsetting part of the result.

    It really does make you question democracy, and no I'm not saying I don't want democracy and no I'm not a facist. But what is democracy when people vote based on a campaign filled with lies?

    Politicians played a dirty game, especially Boris (and his father to some extent), I think voters should have opened there eyes a bit more.
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    Democracy is tyranny of the majority
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    What utterly absurd, anti-intellectual nonsense. There's nothing more I can really say about this, if you're arrogant enough to put your layperson's view in front of the expert consensus, there's nothing I can do. You can't argue with somebody who refuses to acknowledge evidence.



    So you're telling me it's not true that there are only 3.5m immigrants in the UK? It's not true that only 0.3% of the UK Child Benefit budget is spent on foreign aid? That it's not true that the EU spends only 6% of its budget on administration? That's it's not true that Leave have outlined absolutely no concrete, clear plan as to how they intend to achieve the things they're claiming they can do when much of it has been contradicted by lawmakers and other countries? You're telling me that the majority of the electorate understand the impact that this is likely to have on the environment, on healthcare, on education, on science, on the arts and on European stability?
    The 3.5m figure is based on a survey of people entering the country, we know from the huge discrepancy between these 'official' figures and the number of NI numbers issued that the 3.5m figure is probably much higher. Foreign Aid is 0.7% of GDP or about £16b, so how on earth could it possibly 0.3% of child benefit, unless out child benefit bill is over double our entire GDP, it's simply absurd. No idea whether 6% of the EU budget is spent on administration, I know 4.4% of it just vanishes due to corruption opposed to 0.018% of the UK budget.
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    This is how democracy works.

    You cast your vote, wait for the results, and accept it.

    You can't protest a democratic vote, doing that makes you a fascist, so get over it.
    Referendums aren't how a representative democracy works.
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    (Original post by interact)
    Democracy is tyranny of the majority
    Which is better than the tyranny of the minority

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    Agreed, I think it's only democracy when I agree with the outcome, too.
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Referendums aren't how a representative democracy works.
    They are an organized system of votes, for the people, and by the people so yes it is how a democracy works
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    They are an organized system of votes, for the people, and by the people so yes it is how a democracy works
    Democracy isn't black-and-white. Referendums are an example of direct democracy shoehorned into a representative democracy.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    What utterly absurd, anti-intellectual nonsense. There's nothing more I can really say about this, if you're arrogant enough to put your layperson's view in front of the expert consensus, there's nothing I can do. You can't argue with somebody who refuses to acknowledge evidence.



    So you're telling me it's not true that there are only 3.5m immigrants in the UK? It's not true that only 0.3% of the UK Child Benefit budget is spent on foreign aid? That it's not true that the EU spends only 6% of its budget on administration? That's it's not true that Leave have outlined absolutely no concrete, clear plan as to how they intend to achieve the things they're claiming they can do when much of it has been contradicted by lawmakers and other countries? You're telling me that the majority of the electorate understand the impact that this is likely to have on the environment, on healthcare, on education, on science, on the arts and on European stability?
    ???? Not one of the experts detailed what would happen if we left the EU which discredits their recommendation instantly. All they said was that we were better off inside it. Well unlucky for the minority but we're going to be leaving the EU, and as time passes we will see how better off our country is.

    The general view of the experts was that the vote to leave would result in some form of economic downturn in the UK, and NOT that we were destroyed forever.

    Have you ever taken into account that even with short run economic downturn, people may still of voted leave by looking at the bigger picture? That's how I voted anyways.
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    This is honestly the most upsetting part of the result.

    It really does make you question democracy, and no I'm not saying I don't want democracy and no I'm not a facist. But what is democracy when people vote based on a campaign filled with lies?

    Politicians played a dirty game, especially Boris (and his father to some extent), I think voters should have opened there eyes a bit more.
    Politics have always relied on lies and manipulation. It will always be like that.

    The Remain campaign should have been better. They said that the EU meant jobs and prosperity to people who were on 0-hour contracts, whilst they used to have permanent jobs in factories.
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    (Original post by James82)
    Yes, we are the United Kingdom, perhaps London should become its own country, but then East London would have to become its own country because they wanted to leave, but then Newham would have to become its own country because they voted to stay, but then Mr Smith at number 42 would have to become his own country because he voted to leave. It's just an absurdist argument.
    Except that scotland is actually a country.

    London is not and is part of england so should face the consequences.

    Scotland is not part of england and for a decision of this magnitude, scotland should control what happens.

    If anything your argument is absurd. A city is not the same as a country or a person.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Care to take a look at your passport and tell me what country is named on the front? The idea that once country voting to remain means we should remain is fundamentally undemocratic, it means 1 person could overthrow over 45m; or how about we flip it the other way, why should Scotland and NI force England and Wales to stay?

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    The UK is a union. England, wales etc are all their own countries.

    Normally there would be no problem with a referendum as normally in every seperate country the results are mixed. But in scotland at least it clearly wasnt.

    In this case it is undemocratic to force the scots to leave even though they clearly didnt want to. Every region voted remain.

    Im not saying that everyone should remain because scotland wants to. Im saying they shouldnt be forced to leave because everyone else wants to.

    Scotland/ireland want to remain? Let them

    England/wales wants to leave? let them

    For a decision of this magnitude, exceptions should be made.

    I understand that this is naive but tbh i am quite bitter about the result as are pretty the majority of scotland.
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    (Original post by MamzZass)
    Except that scotland is actually a country.

    London is not and is part of england so should face the consequences.

    Scotland is not part of england and for a decision of this magnitude, scotland should control what happens.

    If anything your argument is absurd. A city is not the same as a country or a person.
    Scotland is part of the country of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Why would you go back to an arbitrary point just over 300 years ago to define a country? Why not choose 600 years and have Scotland and the Earldom of Orkney? Or 900 years and have The Kingdom of Mann and The Isles, Scotland, Strathclyde and Carrick and Galloway?
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    (Original post by James82)
    Scotland is part of the country of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Why would you go back to an arbitrary point just over 300 years ago to define a country? Why not choose 600 years and have Scotland and the Earldom of Orkney? Or 900 years and have The Kingdom of Mann and The Isles, Scotland, Strathclyde and Carrick and Galloway?
    You make a good point but fail to acknowledge that scotland has its own parliament meaning it has control over some decisions which are made concerning scotland.

    I recognize that we are part if the uk and that whatever is decided by the uk usually should affect scotland as well.

    However this decision/referendum is not like the usual decisions which are made by the uk. It has massive repurcussions whatever the result and so the scottish parliament should be able to have a say in whether they are forced to leave the eu or not
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