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Do you think we will actually end up leaving the eu? watch

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    (Original post by paul514)
    We're not doing the campaign again it's well documented both sides half truths and lies


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    Then how hard can it be to give me example of a lie that the Remain campaign told? I can think of several from Leave, just off the top of my head.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    If we secure single market access we will probably have to a) accept unlimited or very nearly unlimited free movement of people from the EU, b) continue to pay in to the EU budget although not as much as if we are a full member. We will still need to follow all their single market rules however once we are outside the EU we will be outside the rule setting process.
    Do you not think that this undermines the aspect of Brexit which was supposed to increase democracy. It just seems like we have less democracy in this respect.
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    We are seeing the plan. Resign but hold office to avoid anybody pressing the button. Get the Tory party to agree around what Brexit will look like and then try to negotiate for it.

    It is entirely plausible that the Tories will converge around the consensus that we better not leave (after all, it was the regional Labour seats that voted us out, not the Tory seats and Boris Johnson doesn't really believe in leaving). They will then go through a farcical negotiation with the EU, both sides pretending to be really tough but actually changing nothing.

    The other outcome might be that the Tory party does converge around a consensus to leave - many will be insistent on keeping access to the common market though and don't care about immigration really (again this was a Labour seat issue). Then the Tory party will negotiate with the EU, and may likely find that the EU won't cooperate (notice how it didn't cooperate with Greece) and ultimately decide to stay in.

    The other outcome is the Tories can't agree on anything and nothing gets done unless a madman ends up as Prime minister and triggers Article 50 out of spite or something like that.

    Something which may hold sway to keep the UK in the EU is the Scots. The Tories may sense that if they can deliver the UK staying in the EU, then they may be able to capture some seats in Scotland off the SNP - which would secure their majorities for years to come.

    I'm saying all this because I'm quite sure the Labour party will be an irrelevance for the foreseeable future.
    I agree freedom of movement will be price Britain has to pay for free access to the Single Market. Otherwise, Britain will lose so many businesses there will be huge job loses, big falls in taxes and massive cuts in public spending.

    Anyone who thinks Britain can have both immigration control and free access is living in la la land.
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    They're gonna try and stupidly leave some policies and laws, especially toward immigration/migration, from before after the leave is official, which will take time for no good reason at all except fear.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Do you not think that this undermines the aspect of Brexit which was supposed to increase democracy. It just seems like we have less democracy in this aspect.
    Brexit was about getting Boris into No 10, nothing to do with democracy.
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    The morons of Britain have already spoken. we cant reverse this now without abandoning the very principle of democracy.
    we just have to try and breed less morons here.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I agree freedom of movement will be price Britain has to pay for free access to the Single Market. Otherwise, Britain will lose so many businesses there will be huge job loses, big falls in taxes and massive cuts in public spending.

    Anyone who thinks Britain can have both immigration control and free access is living in la la land.
    There is an alternative vision. That free movement across all of the EU is halted and a new system is introduced. Britain may have given the EU a warning shot across the bow. The concerns over immigration are not unique to Britain - European leaders should realise now that if something isn't done to change this, the whole of the EU could fall apart. The concerns are there in the biggest EU countries, France, Germany, Italy, Spain. If one of them was to vote to leave in a referendum the effects would be truly catastrophic as there would be no currency movement to offset the shock. Even those Eastern European nations might be willing to introduce caps if they were offered more support around the migration of refugees from war torn nations and economic migrants from Northern Africa.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    Then how hard can it be to give me example of a lie that the Remain campaign told? I can think of several from Leave, just off the top of my head.
    Punishment budget.

    There. But like I said campaigns over. Deal with it


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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    There is an alternative vision. That free movement across all of the EU is halted and a new system is introduced. Britain may have given the EU a warning shot across the bow. The concerns over immigration are not unique to Britain - European leaders should realise now that if something isn't done to change this, the whole of the EU could fall apart. The concerns are there in the biggest EU countries, France, Germany, Italy, Spain. If one of them was to vote to leave in a referendum the effects would be truly catastrophic as there would be no currency movement to offset the shock. Even those Eastern European nations might be willing to introduce caps if they were offered more support around the migration of refugees from war torn nations and economic migrants from Northern Africa.
    I think you are living in la la land.

    Britain has always been a pain the arse over the EU and its now gone and the other EU leaders are looking relieved.

    Freedom of movement is too much of what makes the EU successful to be ditched just because Britain's poor, and uneducated can't compete against foreigners who can't speak English.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I think you are living in la la land.

    Britain has always been a pain the arse over the EU and its now gone and the other EU leaders are looking relieved.

    Freedom of movement is too much of what makes the EU successful to be ditched just because Britain's poor, and uneducated can't compete against foreigners who can't speak English.
    We're all in la la land now.

    The problem European leaders have got is they can't force the UK out and the UK could become even more of a menace to them. The UK simply isn't going to press Article 50.

    Let's suppose that the free movement is kept for all EU nations, but a clause is introduced so that if immigration to a country is greater than 1% of its population, then in the subsequent year an emergency break can be applied by the country. This would give the country complete control over migration for the subsequent year.

    Such an instrument would probably never need to be used, as the ascension states of Poland etc have all joined now so there is unlikely to be any huge influx again but it is something that you could sell to the British electorate - as taking back control.

    It is a bit like buying a husband and wife buying a used car. The husband really wants the car but the wife is concerned over its reliability. The car dealer says he will throw in a 3 year warranty for free which placates the missus. Little does the missus know that the warranty doesn't actually work, but the car dealer does and so does the husband. Everybody leaves happy!

    Ofcourse we'd need a tough negotiator to get this done. Somebody who's willing to let people die to get what needs to be done, done.

    Step forward Jeremy C****



    Oh - and on the second go around, Boris can have the role of Foreign Secretary - that ought to shut him up in a second referendum.

    The Establishment wanted us to stay, so we're gonna stay.

    But yeah, we are in la la land now. The only certain thing we have is Corbyn won't leave!
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    We're all in la la land now.

    The problem European leaders have got is they can't force the UK out and the UK could become even more of a menace to them. The UK simply isn't going to press Article 50.

    Let's suppose that the free movement is kept for all EU nations, but a clause is introduced so that if immigration to a country is greater than 1% of its population, then in the subsequent year an emergency break can be applied by the country. This would give the country complete control over migration for the subsequent year.

    Such an instrument would probably never need to be used, as the ascension states of Poland etc have all joined now so there is unlikely to be any huge influx again but it is something that you could sell to the British electorate - as taking back control.

    It is a bit like buying a husband and wife buying a used car. The husband really wants the car but the wife is concerned over its reliability. The car dealer says he will throw in a 3 year warranty for free which placates the missus. Little does the missus know that the warranty doesn't actually work, but the car dealer does and so does the husband. Everybody leaves happy!

    Ofcourse we'd need a tough negotiator to get this done. Somebody who's willing to let people die to get what needs to be done, done.

    Step forward Jeremy C****



    Oh - and on the second go around, Boris can have the role of Foreign Secretary - that ought to shut him up in a second referendum.

    The Establishment wanted us to stay, so we're gonna stay.

    But yeah, we are in la la land now. The only certain thing we have is Corbyn won't leave!

    If Britain don't go for A 50, it will become a laughing stock and the PM will have to think of more reasons why he/she hasn't done it whenever anyone ask like he lost Junker's number.

    The EU has made clear freedom of movement is off the table. Anyone who ask is just wasting time. Britain has to decide between jobs and immigrants. The EU can't help Britain just because it has a poor education system, low paid jobs and low productivity.
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    I would say that they will still try us with movement of people as Boris said that it wasn't about immigration (when it obviously was) and therefore keep us in the common market kind of like the Norway deal. It depends how the next general election goes.
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    I think we will formally leave the EU but will likely still have access to free market, still have free movement of people (possibly 'workers') and we'll probably have to join the Schengen area...

    Not much will change but for we'll be officially our and able to make our own FTA with non-EU states.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    I think we will formally leave the EU but will likely still have access to free market, still have free movement of people (possibly 'workers' and we'll probably have to join the Schengen area...

    Not much will change but for we'll be officially our and able to make our own FTA with non-EU states.
    I think the same. Unless a snap GE enables a "pro-Remain" coalition party to fight a unified anti-Leave campaign.

    So no, or little, change to "solving" immigration. (Schengen)
    No, or little, change to "solving" sovereignty. (Access to the EU market will mean their regulations will still apply but we have no say - like Norway)
    No, or little, change to the EU contribution. (We will effectively pay a fee for access - like Norway).

    This will take at least 2 years to be negotiated during which time the economy will be on pause.

    Remind me, what was the feckin point...
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Punishment budget.

    There. But like I said campaigns over. Deal with it
    Osbourne has said that's not going to happen until a new PM comes in.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    Osbourne has said that's not going to happen until a new PM comes in.
    New pm means new budget doesn't mean it's a punishment budget.

    I also see no armed conflict in Europe or the end of western civilisation lol


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    (Original post by paul514)
    New pm means new budget doesn't mean it's a punishment budget.

    I also see no armed conflict in Europe or the end of western civilisation lol
    Doesn't mean it's not a punishment budget, either. :curious: We'll have to wait and see. Got any other "lies" from the Leave campaign?

    Okay
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    Yes but it'll be nothing like you expected. Still free movement of Labour, all regulations when trading with them, 50%+ of EU law will remain and some still be enforced by the EU as part of trade and no say in the Political process instead we just follow what we're told. It's the best deal we can get if we want access to the single market.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    Doesn't mean it's not a punishment budget, either. :curious: We'll have to wait and see. Got any other "lies" from the Leave campaign?

    Okay
    U wot m9?

    I'm not telling lies on behalf of a campaign that has ended


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    (Original post by paul514)
    U wot m9?

    I'm not telling lies on behalf of a campaign that has ended


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    lol meant to say Remain
 
 
 
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