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Scotland can't do referendums any time they want Watch

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    (Original post by paul514)
    Various politics programs with various commentators on them and a very wide variety of politics and news websites.

    I don't just watch one thing for 15 minutes one day and think I know it all. We are talking 30 hours a week here for 6/7 years. That's 25% of the time I'm awake


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    And is this in connection to your job? Your education?

    Still waiting on sources.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    This is why I hope sturgeon doesn't block Brexit. Even if the vote had gone the other way, she would be clamoring for another referendum over something else. The SNP is a disgusting little party, after Froggy Salmond stepped down they were talking about how they'll get indepedence next time, they have no class.
    Surely if the majority of your country votes for something (Remain) that is over-ruled by a second country (England) but will be hugely economically damaging to your own country (Scotland) as well as that country (England) that is a pretty big ****ing case to do something about it.

    I would like the both to remain part of the UK but it's pretty clear that the UK has given tremendous genuine and democratic grounds for Scotland to again raise this dispute. Despite the fact it had just been put to bed. Thank English Brexiteers for that I guess.
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    And is this in connection to your job? Your education?

    Still waiting on sources.
    No it's not my job I do it in my own time. You know full well there is no sources as to how people voted. Only information, interviews and expert opinions


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    (Original post by seaholme)
    Surely if the majority of your country votes for something (Remain) that is over-ruled by a second country (England) but will be hugely economically damaging to your own country (Scotland) as well as that country (England) that is a pretty big ****ing case to do something about it.

    I would like the both to remain part of the UK but it's pretty clear that the UK has given tremendous genuine and democratic grounds for Scotland to again raise this dispute. Despite the fact it had just been put to bed. Thank English Brexiteers for that I guess.
    It's not England overruling it, it's the UK government of which Scotland is a part of the voting process. No one else will agree to have another when you had one in 2014.

    It doesn't matter what anyone in the snp says or does it doesn't change the fact they won't get Westminster to agree


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    (Original post by paul514)
    It's not England overruling it, it's the UK government of which Scotland is a part of the voting process. No one else will agree to have another when you had one in 2014.

    It doesn't matter what anyone in the snp says or does it doesn't change the fact they won't get Westminster to agree


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    Well the break down of it is that if England wants something then by sheer population it will always out-vote Scotland. So if not over ruling in a literal sense then in a practical sense.

    I don't think you can necessarily call whether Westminster will ever agree to a repeat independence referendum for Scotland. Although I hope they think long and hard about approving referenda from now on!
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    (Original post by paul514)
    No it's not my job I do it in my own time. You know full well there is no sources as to how people voted. Only information, interviews and expert opinionsPosted from TSR Mobile
    And this comes from... asking a selection of people. So your evidence comes from listening to people who've listened to people who've talked briefly to some Remain voters in Scotland. Mine comes from talking at length to a large number of Remain voters in Scotland.
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    (Original post by DougallnDougall)
    I see the TSR is full of the usual anti- Scottish rhetoric. Well Scotland will have its referendum and we will leave UK.
    It tends to be anti-nationalist rhetoric, and frankly that sort of nonsense is precisely what builds up the antipathy. You don't actually have a clue if there'll be another referendum any time soon, and you certainly don't have a clue which result will win. Asserting things like that doesn't demonstrate confidence - it shows insecurity.

    And yes we did not accept the result of the last referendum for very good reasons which I think people on here are incapable of understanding.
    Being inherently bad sports? A lack of common decency?

    Only by remaining in UK could we guarantee our place in Europe. That was one of the big lies that was spun to scare the elderly into voting No. That and the loss of their pensions. Our oil was running out ( most folk can work out 100% of oil at £50 a barrel is worth a heck of a lot more than the current 8% Scotland receives). A few days after the BBC announces a massive oil filed identified off Shetland (it's existence was well known in certain circles however Cameron's not so secret visit just before the referendum resulted in silence in the press. Lies, lies and more lies spewed forth from WM.
    You do realise that this is all out of the Big Conspiracy Theorists' Handbook, yeah? I'd think you were a parody account were it not so detailed.
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    Well the break down of it is that if England wants something then by sheer population it will always out-vote Scotland. So if not over ruling in a literal sense then in a practical sense.

    I don't think you can necessarily call whether Westminster will ever agree to a repeat independence referendum for Scotland. Although I hope they think long and hard about approving referenda from now on!
    I would stake my life that there won't be another independence referendum before 2020 and it's highly unlikely that there will be one before 2034.




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    (Original post by paul514)
    I would stake my life that there won't be another independence referendum before 2020 and it's highly unlikely that there will be one before 2034.




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    No Sturgeon, no "IndyRef2". Think your life is safe - she's on her way out.
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    (Original post by seaholme)
    Surely if the majority of your country votes for something (Remain) that is over-ruled by a second country (England) but will be hugely economically damaging to your own country (Scotland) as well as that country (England) that is a pretty big ****ing case to do something about it
    Yes, something that for precisely the same reasons and many more would be significantly more damaging.

    That people are even raising this as a prospect baffles me. We've just pretty ably demonstrated that these risks do exist, that uncoupling from unions is fraught with problems and that ignoring experts leads to you getting shafted. Yet it appears about half of the Scottish public still think it's a cracking idea vis-a-vis the United Kingdom.

    Eejits.
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    Scotland should be forced to stay as part of the UK and Sturgeon should be tried for treason for trying to break up the Kingdom.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Yes, something that for precisely the same reasons and many more would be significantly more damaging.

    That people are even raising this as a prospect baffles me. We've just pretty ably demonstrated that these risks do exist, that uncoupling from unions is fraught with problems and that ignoring experts leads to you getting shafted. Yet it appears about half of the Scottish public still think it's a cracking idea vis-a-vis the United Kingdom.

    Eejits.
    I fully agree with you. I think Scottish independence is inadvisable. However if Brexit has shown us anything it's that the concept that you somehow are able to make sovereign decisions as a country and have your own say on things can over ride common sense on more or less every count!
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    Hilarious that people demanding Brexit because democracy and sovereignty refuse to offer it to the Scots.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Hilarious that people demanding Brexit because democracy and sovereignty refuse to offer it to the Scots.
    It was offered to scots they refused it


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    (Original post by paul514)
    It was offered to scots they refused it


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    When? And there are people on this thread, is what I mean.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    When? And there are people on this thread, is what I mean.
    2014 they had a referendum and voted remain for a generation.

    2016 we had a referendum on eu membership and voted to leave.

    2016 SNP says we would like another referendum - soz you just had one.....



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    (Original post by paul514)
    2014 they had a referendum and voted remain for a generation.

    2016 we had a referendum on eu membership and voted to leave.

    2016 SNP says we would like another referendum - soz you just had one
    Quite reasonably because one of the assumptions made in the 2014 referendum was that the UK would remain in the EU. Circumstances have changed.

    Doesn't negate my point that, right now, there are hypocrites saying Scotland cannot have another vote but that somehow the EU is anti/undemocratic.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Quite reasonably because one of the assumptions made in the 2014 referendum was that the UK would remain in the EU. Circumstances have changed.
    That was not implicit at all. We were expecting a UK-wide referendum on the EU at the time. Cameron had promised one in 2013. Scots voted against independence in the full knowledge that Cameron would be holding an in-out referendum soon after the general election, which is exactly what happened.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    That was not implicit at all. We were expecting a UK-wide referendum on the EU at the time. Cameron had promised one in 2013. Scots voted against independence in the full knowledge that Cameron would be holding an in-out referendum soon after the general election, which is exactly what happened.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282
    Which does not negate what I said. Many were dissuaded from voting Yes in that referendum because of economic uncertainty, specifically to do with being both outside the UK and outside the EU (as the EU would not admit a seceding country easily and would demand all sorts of concessions). Now that understanding has been destroyed.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Now that understanding has been destroyed.
    I would suggest that understanding has been reinforced. Scotland cannot become independent and be immediately in the EU. Nothing has changed in that regard. Scotland will not be admitted with all the UK opt-outs and budget rebates either.

    I would be very interested in the result of a new independence referendum as the lie of Scottish oil wealth has been exposed mercilessly, there can be no pretence that membership will be capable of being a simple continuation exercise, and there is no prospect of similar terms as the UK holds..
 
 
 
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