Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Take a situation (highly probable) where the Tory negotiators become hopelessly gridlocked with the EU negotiators over access to the Single Market because the EU won't accept limitations on free movement and people like Liam Fox can't budge on that due to the politics of the Tory Party.

    In that case, we can probably expect a slump in service sector sales to the EU of at least 25%.

    Thinking we can make that up by selling more services to Australia or Canada is absolute tripe. We'd be lucky to make up even 10% of it.
    A defeated Remainer still not realising what defeat actually means, lol, it means you lost. We get to say F*ck you to the vile EU - no more suffering unheard of under their rule. Point hear it was not just a part ot the Tory Party, but also UKIP and many LAbour voters former and present, hell perhaps even some former Lib Dem Voters. All hate the EU for good reason - 'freedom of movement' which has brought nothing but suffering to the UK population - no jobs, no housing because of it. We don't need the EU free trade deal if they insist on freedom of movement we can walk away. We import more than export, some of it cheaply from places far away as China, the EU can easily be replaced, would feel grand taken their arrogant aloof attitude down a peg or two.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gavin2016)
    A defeated Remainer still not realising what defeat actually means, lol, it means you lost. We get to say F*ck you to the vile EU - no more suffering unheard of under their rule. Point hear it was not just a part ot the Tory Party, but also UKIP and many LAbour voters former and present, hell perhaps even some former Lib Dem Voters. All hate the EU for good reason - 'freedom of movement' which has brought nothing but suffering to the UK population - no jobs, no housing because of it. We don't need the EU free trade deal if they insist on freedom of movement we can walk away. We import more than export, some of it cheaply from places far away as China, the EU can easily be replaced, would feel grand taken their arrogant aloof attitude down a peg or two.
    Nonsense.

    BREXIT VOTERS:
    a) The poorest parts of the UK are places with the least number of migrants. So there is a link to wealth creation and migration.
    b) Its not trade deals we need , its free movement. Money is made, as pointed out by NORMAN TEBBIT when you get on your bike and look for work
    c) Brexit people come from poor run down towns, its hardly a model for the rest of the country to emulate. Yeah sure, if brexit places were doing brill I'm sure we would all be saying "ok give it a shot" - but they are not - brexit places are dirt poor. Do we as a nation really want to follow these places?
    d) The places in the UK with the highest levels of migrants voted Remain... They are also the richest parts of the UK.
    e) We would be mad to want to make the whole UK like Brexit areas.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Nonsense.

    BREXIT VOTERS:
    a) The poorest parts of the UK are places with the least number of migrants. So there is a link to wealth creation and migration.
    b) Its not trade deals we need , its free movement. Money is made, as pointed out by NORMAN TEBBIT when you get on your bike and look for work
    c) Brexit people come from poor run down towns, its hardly a model for the rest of the country to emulate. Yeah sure, if brexit places were doing brill I'm sure we would all be saying "ok give it a shot" - but they are not - brexit places are dirt poor. Do we as a nation really want to follow these places?
    d) The places in the UK with the highest levels of migrants voted Remain... They are also the richest parts of the UK.
    e) We would be mad to want to make the whole UK like Brexit areas.
    a) Most of the wealthiest areas outside of London also have little immigration. Your link is subjective and based on minimal evidence.
    b) Meh, not bothered about free movement.
    c) You clearly have not performed analysis of the results. Whilst it's true that poor areas did vote for Brexit, so did the wealthy areas.
    d) You think Leicseter and Bradford are wealthy? Migrants live in places that are not London.

    I'm alarmed at the fact that you appear to performed no empirical analysis and have simply selected various bits of information to suit your point while ignoring anything that challenges your opinion.

    I say this as somebody who would not have been too bothered if we stayed.
    • Political Ambassador
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Maker)
    Not really, Australia exports a lot of beef, if Britain allowed a lot of beef imports into the country, that would put pressure on British beef producers and reduce their market share.
    Beef is a minor element of their exports to the UK, but that doesn't follow the narrative, does it?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RugRatz)
    The EU's green tax made it more expensive for us to export our steel, Thatcher's government did not do a lot to help in the mid 80's and early 90's no end of our greedy factory owners moved to India to make more money due to less overheads, also cheaper labour, Thatchers achievement after killing unions was making it that we relied on imports. To address your point about supporting the steel works instead of IT is a bit flawed considering the British steel workers do not have the skill sets to work elsewhere and have to compete with china who's answer to everything is printing more money and exporting more . After we have invoked article 50 we could probably over the cause of the year save the steel workers, invest in the IT industry and increase the budget for the NHS
    More industry closed under Blair than thatcher.

    That's a fact often ignored


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    a) Most of the wealthiest areas outside of London also have little immigration. Your link is subjective and based on minimal evidence.
    b) Meh, not bothered about free movement.
    c) You clearly have not performed analysis of the results. Whilst it's true that poor areas did vote for Brexit, so did the wealthy areas.
    d) You think Leicseter and Bradford are wealthy? Migrants live in places that are not London.

    I'm alarmed at the fact that you appear to performed no empirical analysis and have simply selected various bits of information to suit your point while ignoring anything that challenges your opinion.

    I say this as somebody who would not have been too bothered if we stayed.
    No, my stats are pretty widely accepted
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RugRatz)
    The EU's green tax made it more expensive for us to export our steel, Thatcher's government did not do a lot to help in the mid 80's and early 90's no end of our greedy factory owners moved to India to make more money due to less overheads, also cheaper labour, Thatchers achievement after killing unions was making it that we relied on imports. To address your point about supporting the steel works instead of IT is a bit flawed considering the British steel workers do not have the skill sets to work elsewhere and have to compete with china who's answer to everything is printing more money and exporting more . After we have invoked article 50 we could probably over the cause of the year save the steel workers, invest in the IT industry and increase the budget for the NHS
    Britain can't and shouldn't compete with China making commodity steel. I lived in Sheffield in the 1970s and 80s when all the steelworks making mild commodity steel closed down due to foreign competition and lack of investment. Sheffield now concentrates on specialist steel that is more difficult for other manufacturers to copy.

    Its not a matter of skill sets, skills can be learnt.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Beef is a minor element of their exports to the UK, but that doesn't follow the narrative, does it?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    It depends if the Australians insist that any trade deals include agricultural products which seems very likely since that is a big part of what Australia does.

    Trade deals are like a box of chocolates, you get the bits you want but you also have to put up with the bits you don't because the other side does the same. Thats why they take so long to finalise. If its all about getting the stuff you want, you could do it in week because everyone agrees.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    And the question is, why are they poor run down towns? Its because of our membership of the EU, the increasing job competition, low investment and low job opportunities because of not enough trade deals.

    Let me add another issue. Southern European countries are financially struggling badly. Greece has 50% youth unemployment. The EU leaders are not helping them to improve because they do not allow Greece, or other countries to expand their economy by being able to have the freedom of having free trade deals with the rest of the world. Very undemocratic.
    Greece can leave the EU if they want to but they decided not to.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    More industry closed under Blair than thatcher.

    That's a fact often ignored


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    But also far more new business opened by huge amounts. That's how a dynamic country works and it is a good thing.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by skeptical_john)
    But also far more new business opened by huge amounts. That's how a dynamic country works and it is a good thing.
    Stats?

    Plus I could argue that the Internet came into being in that period plus a higher population and that when people are made unemployed and can't get new jobs they start their own business just like the spike it this post 2008.



    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    Stats?

    Plus I could argue that the Internet came into being in that period plus a higher population and that when people are made unemployed and can't get new jobs they start their own business just like the spike it this post 2008.



    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I think its a good thing people start their own businesses instead of relying on other people to employ them.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maker)
    I think its a good thing people start their own businesses instead of relying on other people to employ them.
    If they make more money than previously which many don't. Honestly there is loads of coverage of this post 2008 you should have a quick Google search on it


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    If they make more money than previously which many don't. Honestly there is loads of coverage of this post 2008 you should have a quick Google search on it


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Its better people make some money than collecting benefits. The world is always changing, young people don't get as well paid jobs as their parents, they don't get the same security and have to look after themselves a lot more than relying on the nanny state and employers who gives them a steady job and a decent pension.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    More industry closed under Blair than thatcher.

    That's a fact often ignored


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Interesting. But was that because of direct policy decisions or because of increases in pay and living standards offset against a bullish China moping up most of the world's bread and butter manufacturing sector?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Interesting. But was that because of direct policy decisions or because of increases in pay and living standards offset against a bullish China moping up most of the world's bread and butter manufacturing sector?
    I wouldn't want to give a solid answer on that point as I'm not an expert one could ask similar questions about what happened under thatcher too.

    Supporting an industry short term is good form if that situation is likely to change in the future so you protect jobs and skills.

    There is no point if that isn't likely to change and that was the case with mining.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    More industry closed under Blair than thatcher.

    That's a fact often ignored


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    The problem is, it started under Thatcher and the trend was irreversible- people stopped going into secondary sector jobs IE steel industry and this is when the services sector started to grow. By the time 1997 had came around most of the people had left the steel industry, in terms of industry closing that may be correct but lets look at employment 1978 was 290,000 in 1990- when Thatcher left office there was 90,000 working in the steel industry 18,181 people a year left of lost employment in the steel industry, I got breaks of employment in the steel industry for Blair at 35000-3500 per year. The truth in the matter is that a lot of our factories went to India on cost cutting excercises which also started in the 1980s. Put it this way Thatcher started it and it was impracticable to invest in it due to the expense we have producing it compared to other countries

    http://visual.ons.gov.uk/the-british...nce-the-1970s/
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RugRatz)
    The problem is, it started under Thatcher and the trend was irreversible- people stopped going into secondary sector jobs IE steel industry and this is when the services sector started to grow. By the time 1997 had came around most of the people had left the steel industry, in terms of industry closing that may be correct but lets look at employment 1978 was 290,000 in 1990- when Thatcher left office there was 90,000 working in the steel industry 18,181 people a year left of lost employment in the steel industry, I got breaks of employment in the steel industry for Blair at 35000-3500 per year. The truth in the matter is that a lot of our factories went to India on cost cutting excercises which also started in the 1980s. Put it this way Thatcher started it and it was impracticable to invest in it due to the expense we have producing it compared to other countries

    http://visual.ons.gov.uk/the-british...nce-the-1970s/
    And you can argue loads of industry went before that too like the cotton industry


    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.