Why abortion should be illegal

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    (Original post by L i b)
    I suppose from a detached perspective you could criminalise that too, if you wanted to close down the theoretical loophole there. An offence of travelling abroad to procure an abortion could be applied.
    It would be quite difficult to word it in such a way but it's possible I suppose


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    (Original post by ZoëC)
    and don't forget the potential Trumps and Mussolinis etc.

    Look at all the potentially great people that won't achieve great things because society views teen mothers as a disgrace, the unmarried women having children seen as disgusting, the women told the universe will give them the means to raise their child, but refuses to pay into the welfare state or child support system....

    It is unfair to place value on a foetus when once born they mean nothing to the 'pro life' movement that forced them to exist...
    It is unfair to take value or worth away from a person that can not defend themselves or is at a disadvantage.

    There are pro life organizations (non-profit) that do help foster, single mothers, single fathers, and others who chose life over death.

    The same pro life movement understand that meaning or purpose is to a person to discover. Some that have joined the movement are abortion survivors or individuals whose parents decided adoption.
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    (Original post by BB8)


    Abortion being illegal is dangerous.
    YAY ... those who lead the fight to bring about abortion have admitted that they lied about the wire hanger.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...n-d-williamson
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    (Original post by ckfeister)
    https://youtu.be/cuJJowJikdk?t=4m25s


    Does anyone get confused that socialism meant to be for the people yet they kill/want their own way and cover it up by " equality "

    PS. Under 5 weeks I wouldn't say thats harmful. *read before replying...*
    I think abortion should not be illegal, because there are some cases within which the only solution is to end the life of the fetus (e.g. when the mother's life is in danger or when the pregnancy is the result of a sexual assault etc. etc.). Also I am quite sure that abortion is not a light decision for a woman, therefore she has the right to decide.
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    (Original post by TGhulam)
    I think abortion should not be illegal, because there are some cases within which the only solution is to end the life of the fetus (e.g. when the mother's life is in danger or when the pregnancy is the result of a sexual assault etc. etc.). Also I am quite sure that abortion is not a light decision for a woman, therefore she has the right to decide.
    1. why not save both lives or attempt to in which the loss of the child's life is not a result of "kill the child." do you see a moral difference in this?

    2. if the choice is woman's why is the question between life or death? do you believe one human can decide death for another ?

    3. there many women who feel depression and guilt and even physical damages from an abortion. why support that outcome?

    4. sadly some women do not have free choice as their choice is pressured into having an abortion. an act of death that is sooner to support the person who did the sexual assault/rape/incest.

    would one agree abortion can be a way to hide an assault?
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    (Original post by NUSTweb)
    as God said in Quran...killing one innocent is like killing whole humanity...
    You should read those verses (5:29-38) more carefully, because what your god was saying was that had been his attitude in the time of the Biblical Jews but it no longer was going forward for Moslems, and that severe physical and corporal punishments were, for such transgressors as thieves and atheists, now the order of the day.

    In other words it says exactly the opposite of what you say it says.
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    1. why not save both lives or attempt to in which the loss of the child's life is not a result of "kill the child." do you see a moral difference in this?

    4. sadly some women do not have free choice as their choice is pressured into having an abortion. an act of death that is sooner to support the person who did the sexual assault/rape/incest.

    would one agree abortion can be a way to hide an assault?


    It is often safer to abort than to go through with a pregnancy that may pose unavoidable risk to mother and baby - sure if she keeps a baby then miscarries it's not 'killing' the baby, but the result of this could result in harm to the mother, which would've been avoided with an abortion. It is unfair to make the call here suggesting that it is worth risking one fully established life on the off chance that a new one may come of it.


    I understand your point, but that is not the fault of the assault victim, you are suggesting that they may be hiding the assault, which they may well do, because many rape victims are shunned from communities, rejected by their families, or even killed as there are still many that believe the victim is to blame for their assault. Of course some rape victims will happily choose to keep the child, but it is unfair to force a standardised coping method upon all victims (e.g suggesting they will get over it or be happier if they have a child conceived through their assault) and thus, it is unfair to suggest that victims should keep the children as if to abort them is a destruction of evidence that somehow showing the victim to be condoning their attacker's behaviour.
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    1. why not save both lives or attempt to in which the loss of the child's life is not a result of "kill the child." do you see a moral difference in this?
    1] A foetus isn't technically a life
    2] Even if said thing was saved can you guarentee it a good quality of life as having seen the cluster **** the care system is sending one there isn't exactly a blessing.
    2. if th
    e choice is woman's why is the question between life or death? do you believe one human can decide death for another ?
    the poster isn't saying shoot a child. Once again these aren't alive, atleast not at said stage anyway.
    3. there many women who feel depression and guilt and even physical damages from an abortion. why support that outcome?
    And plenty become depressed having said child whats your point?
    4. sadly some women do not have free choice as their choice is pressured into having an abortion. an act of death that is sooner to support the person who did the sexual assault/rape/incest.
    What a load of ****.
    would one agree abortion can be a way to hide an assault?[/QUOTE]
    More tripe... in no conceivable way can anyone argue an abortion hides a crime. Removes the result maybe but no more.
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    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    it shouldn't be illegal and here's why
    once the state bans something
    it will go underground
    and then you have women dying thanks to botched abortions all the time
    How or why is that a reason? If abortion is illegal, it would not transpire in the quantity it would when it is legal.

    The move to making it illegal would include various alternatives.

    There are also botched abortions done in countries where it is legal. Would there be much of a change?
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    (Original post by TGhulam)
    I think abortion should not be illegal, because there are some cases within which the only solution is to end the life of the fetus (e.g. when the mother's life is in danger or when the pregnancy is the result of a sexual assault etc. etc.). Also I am quite sure that abortion is not a light decision for a woman, therefore she has the right to decide.
    You might as well say that committing several other crimes is a difficult decision for some, and thus they should be able to decide their own moral course. The law doesn't really work like that.

    I don't really have much of a problem with people who say "a foetus before x stage of development can be aborted freely". It's the ones who suggest there should be regulation of abortion, but with exceptions. That's, as far as I can see it, an admission that you're depriving life. While obviously that's a reasonable medical judgement to make where, say, the mother's life is at risk, how you can possibly justify it in cases of sexual assault is beyond me.

    If, however, you accept there is no consideration at all acceding to a foetus, then that's quite rational.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    1] A foetus isn't technically a life
    There's not a technical definition of what "a life" is. That's a philosophical point. From a scientific perspective, a foetus is certainly alive. There is a clear distinction there.

    2] Even if said thing was saved can you guarentee it a good quality of life as having seen the cluster **** the care system is sending one there isn't exactly a blessing.
    2. if th
    the poster isn't saying shoot a child. Once again these aren't alive, atleast not at said stage anyway.
    What's the point of making an argument that you're going to directly contradict in the next sentence?
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    1. should fetuses receive their own welfare, eg money and housing, before they were born?

    2. Should a pregnant woman be charged extra on a flight because it's two instead of one human?
    3. Should fetuses be given and required to carry a passport?
    4. Should age be counted from the moment of conception?
    5. Should the fetus be arrested for violation of any law? For example, you cannot insert yourself to someone's vagina without their consent; so can a woman potentially sue her fetus for rape?
    1 - Pregnant women and mothers get increased welfare. It's a baby, not an adult.
    2 - You pay for seats taken not people, hence why huge people buy two seats.
    3 - The foetus isn't going to sneak out of the womb to illegally get past Israeli border control is it? Of course it doesn't need a passport.
    4- That seems like a silly semantic question, although it's probably easier to start counting age from birth because that's the time frame that doctors use and it makes pinpointing a birthday very easy.
    5 - Criminal responsibility starts age 10.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    There's not a technical definition of what "a life" is. That's a philosophical point. From a scientific perspective, a foetus is certainly alive. There is a clear distinction there.

    THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE THREAD.

    I don't want to control anyone's bodies. But the fact is that the only non-arbitrary point to start counting a person as being alive that makes any sense is conception. It's an undeniable fact. And once you admit that, it follows that abortion is murder. You can't kill children because they're inconvenient to you. "My body my rights" is a stupid argument - nobody has the right to kill children.
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    People may not like the idea of abortion but its not them who have to go through pregnancy, giving birth and parenthood. Let every woman decide for herself. Or take the kid and bring it up yourself if you are so triggered by someone's decision.
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    (Original post by Nottie)
    People may not like the idea of abortion but its not them who have to go through pregnancy, giving birth and parenthood. Let every woman decide for herself. Or take the kid and bring it up yourself if you are so triggered by someone's decision.
    1. What about expectant fathers, they get no say?
    2. Why should everybody keep paying for careless people's mistakes? Abortions cost the NHS tens of millions of pounds a year.

    (Original post by jape)
    THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE THREAD.

    I don't want to control anyone's bodies. But the fact is that the only non-arbitrary point to start counting a person as being alive that makes any sense is conception. It's an undeniable fact. And once you admit that, it follows that abortion is murder. You can't kill children because they're inconvenient to you. "My body my rights" is a stupid argument - nobody has the right to kill children.
    Why is that the 'only non-arbitrary' point to say life begins?


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    (Original post by L i b)
    There's not a technical definition of what "a life" is. That's a philosophical point. From a scientific perspective, a foetus is certainly alive.

    So too are plants...

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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    1. What about expectant fathers, they get no say?
    2. Why should everybody keep paying for careless people's mistakes? Abortions cost the NHS tens of millions of pounds a year.

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    1. They get to express their opinion but at the end its up to the woman. Its her body.
    2. Well I never said it should be free? I think people should pay for it, maybe not for the whole cost but at least some part. Its easy to be careless about protection if you can get rid of the problem free of charge.
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    (Original post by Nottie)
    1. They get to express their opinion but at the end its up to the woman. Its her body.
    2. Well I never said it should be free? I think people should pay for it, maybe not for the whole cost but at least some part. Its easy to be careless about protection if you can get rid of the problem free of charge.
    Haha they get to 'express their opinion' - it's essentially pointless considering it can be completely ignored. Nobody was talking about woman's body, we're talking about a foetus.



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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So too are plants...
    Unquestionably true. Anything else you want to add to this analysis?
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    (Original post by Nottie)
    People may not like the idea of abortion but its not them who have to go through pregnancy, giving birth and parenthood. Let every woman decide for herself.
    If you believe the foetus to be a life, along with the moral obligations that should prompt, then these things are hardly significant.

    (Original post by Nottie)
    1. They get to express their opinion but at the end its up to the woman. Its her body.
    Actually in this country, it's up to the law - and in most cases, the judgement of doctors.
 
 
 
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