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    (Original post by inhuman)
    I compared Mo to Hitler. Not Muslims to Nazis. There is an important difference and that other poster knows it, which is why they misrepresented what I said in this fashion.
    Did I mention you specifically? I have seen people time and time, and in multiple threads again justify anti-Muslim bigotry by comparing Muslims to Nazis, and how it's OK to hate Nazis for their beliefs so it should be the same case for Muslims. I didn't read the whole thread so didn't even know who Dima was talking about. It seems like one of the standard responses, and I was referring to such people in general.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Yes.

    You are right.

    But I don't have anything against Muslims. I have something however against the ideology that they follow.

    In addition, would you please go back to my previous post regarding anti-gay and anti-blacks? I would very much like to hear your opinion on those examples.

    Edit: that difference I talked about, this is it. And you are right, that would make me a bigot.
    What have I said that would suggest that I have no problem with someone who is anti-Gay or anti-Black? Those are forms of bigotry as well.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Just because you say someone or something is bigoted, doesn't make it so.

    I find this whole "bigot" debate funny anyway. I hope some other German might have some input, but as far as I know, we do not even have a word for bigot. ?
    I'm not a german, but I know about Bigotterie, which is taken over from French, but has been used quite frequently, especially in the past https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotterie

    it mostly describes religious hypocrisy (Scheinheiligkeit)

    it was never considered a crime, however

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    (Original post by inhuman)
    I compared Mohammed to Hitler, not Muslims to Nazis.

    But well done for either failing to see the argument, or purposefully putting words in my mouth that I haven't said.

    Class act you are. And rather ironic calling someone else a fool.
    Not putting words in your mouth. That is after all the context of the discussion; like leaders, like followers. I thought you weren't going to continue responding? Were you lying?
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    this is the internet. People will get away with most anything online

    just go on youtube, ummah.com, stormfront, whatever, and you will find people openly advocating massacres of kuffar, non-kuffar, aryans, non-aryans, blondes and brunettes

    if you notice people advocating violence on TSR, report them . In my experience, this is usually dealt with effectively

    on the other hand while advocating violence is a clear concept, bigotry is fuzzy and unpractical . I have never seen a law defining or punishing bigotry

    best
    You know what? You're right. I was just a bit frustrated because I find myself avoiding many topics related to Islam because certain people (in some threads a minority, in others not so much) do not seem able to criticise Islam while keeping casual bigotry out of it. And I just don't feel that I can engage in a good discussion about religion with them. But yes, it is the Internet so nothing much can be done about it.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    What have I said that would suggest that I have no problem with someone who is anti-Gay or anti-Black? Those are forms of bigotry as well.
    You dodge the point.

    Are you or are you not a bigot for insulting others for their opinions?
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Not putting words in your mouth. That is after all the context of the discussion; like leaders, like followers. I thought you weren't going to continue responding? Were you lying?
    When you so blatantly lie about me...

    And no it is not. Because most Muslims exactly do not do like Mo. That is the crux and you repeatedly beat around bush not admitting it. alevelstresss is quite right (read his posts, he is probably a bigger opponent to my posts than you are, and even he says they don't follow him exactly, in fact, that is one of his key arguments), if they were then we would see a very different world.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    I'm not a german, but I know about Bigotterie, which is taken over from French, but has been used quite frequently, especially in the past https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotterie

    it mostly describes religious hypocrisy (Scheinheiligkeit)

    it was never considered a crime, however

    best
    I have never in my life heard that word before.

    Scheinheilig. Yes that one I know, but it does not mean bigotry. It means to pretend (to be nice or honest but you are not). So yes it means more hypocrisy. Not bigotry.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Did I mention you specifically? I have seen people time and time, and in multiple threads again justify anti-Muslim bigotry by comparing Muslims to Nazis, and how it's OK to hate Nazis for their beliefs so it should be the same case for Muslims. I didn't read the whole thread so didn't even know who Dima was talking about. It seems like one of the standard responses, and I was referring to such people in general.
    of course that you can compare Muslims to Nazis (or to Social-democrats, Communists, Conservatives, Whateverists etc). The important is the conclusions we draw from the comparison

    should we expel Muslims ? force them to wear a distinctive clothing ? deport them to Madagascar ? give them knighthoods ?

    discriminating Muslims is just as bad as discriminating homosexuals, blacks, Jews, Poles, plumbers

    this does not mean that we should avoid considering Muhammad a pedophile warlord, or denouncing shariah punishments, and opposing the influence in our countries of political/social theories we consider as going against our basic principles

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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    You know what? You're right. I was just a bit frustrated because I find myself avoiding many topics related to Islam because certain people (in some threads a minority, in others not so much) do not seem able to criticise Islam while keeping casual bigotry out of it. And I just don't feel that I can engage in a good discussion about religion with them. But yes, it is the Internet so nothing much can be done about it.
    And yet when there are people who can, you still call them a bigot.

    How bigoted of you is that?

    You should not let your emotions cloud your ability to critically asses what someone writes. Just because there are many who are bigoted, and you are quite right about that, does not mean all are and you should dismiss all as bigots.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    You dodge the point.

    Are you or are you not a bigot for insulting others for their opinions?
    Who am I insulting for their opinions?

    I don't care if someone hates Blacks and thinks that we are inferior, I don't care if someone thinks that Gays are disgusting. I do care if this person not only has an opinion but is using it to incite hatred, violence and intimidate people from other groups and the law is on my side. If I come across someone with these views, I will challenge and debate them, but at the end of the day they are entitled to their opinions. So no, that would not make me a bigot.

    Someone is not an anti-Muslim bigot if they challenge the views of an extremist who believes that non-Muslims are the worst of the creation and should be killed, subjugated etc. An anti-Muslim bigot would abuse Muslims on the basis of their being Muslims, regardless of what they believe.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Who am I insulting for their opinions?

    I don't care if someone hates Blacks and thinks that we are inferior, I don't care if someone thinks that Gays are disgusting. I do care if this person not only has an opinion but is using it to incite hatred, violence and intimidate people from other groups and the law is on my side. If I come across someone with these views, I will challenge and debate them, but at the end of the day they are entitled to their opinions. So no, that would not make me a bigot.

    Someone is not an anti-Muslim bigot if they challenge the views of an extremist who believes that non-Muslims are the worst of the creation and should be killed, subjugated etc. An anti-Muslim bigot would abuse Muslims on the basis of their being Muslims, regardless of what they believe.
    So why are you challenging and debating, but we are simply bigots?
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    And yet when there are people who can, you still call them a bigot.
    Such as?
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Such as?
    There are plenty on this forum. You just dismiss them all as bigots. And don't deny that. There are multiple of us in this thread and yet you came in crying about how bigoted we all are.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    When you so blatantly lie about me...

    And no it is not. Because most Muslims exactly do not do like Mo. That is the crux and you repeatedly beat around bush not admitting it. alevelstresss is quite right (read his posts, he is probably a bigger opponent to my posts than you are, and even he says they don't follow him exactly, in fact, that is one of his key arguments), if they were then we would see a very different world.
    Do Nazis follow Hitler exactly?
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    So why are you challenging and debating, but we are simply bigots?
    One of the reasons to debate someone who is bigoted is to show them them why their views on certain groups is wrong. If they are adamant and refuse to change their views then they have the right to their opinions.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    The first is criticism of an idea, or set of ideas, much in the same spirit as say criticizing the idea of inheritance tax, or tax in general. The latter is a generalization of an entire group of people who follow said idea, resulting in a blanket dislike or hate for said group.

    Much like being anti-Nazis vs. anti-German (sorry I am a sucker for Godwin's Law).

    I am in my mid 20s :ninja:
    But not all Germans were/are Nazis. Whereas all Muslims follow Islam so your point is massively flawed.

    (Original post by lawyer3c)
    I think it is a very important distinction that many on the right sadly fail to subscribe to.
    But people on the left blindly defending Islam with no real knowledge or experience of it is fine? If people had genuine experience of Islam without being brainwashed into following it they most definitely would not defend it.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Do Nazis follow Hitler exactly?
    I am sure exactly is rather difficult. But much more closely than most Muslims do Mo. Those that actually were Nazis, because no, just because you were a German living in Nazi Germany does not mean you were a Nazi.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    And among "treating Muslims like everyone else" should be zero tolerance of bigotry against them, instead of the meek "meh, I can understand why some people are bigoted/lashing out even though I personally don't agree", surely? I have rarely seen a form of bigotry that is so tolerated because "my enemy's enemy is my friend".
    Tolerance of intolerance is no virtue.
    Being intolerant of intolerance is not bigotry.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    There are plenty on this forum. You just dismiss them all as bigots. And don't deny that. There are multiple of us in this thread and yet you came in crying about how bigoted we all are.
    Where did I say that everyone was a bigot? Some are, no doubt, and it's important to challenge those who are, especially those who incite violence by posting "nuke them all" and the like.
 
 
 
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