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engineers > scientists > doctors > lawyers > everyone else Watch

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    (Original post by Observatory)
    I would rate that one quarter true.

    First, not all infectious diseases have vaccinations, but incidence of all infectious disease dropped very quickly over the course of the 20th century in countries with good sanitation to effectively zero. Vaccination only sped up a trend that was happening anyway.

    Second, calling it a medical intervention is dubious. You don't need doctors to develop or administer vaccinations.


    A major issue for the elderly, and one that medicine does not have a very good answer to.


    Sure, but this is a quality of life improvement for mostly elderly people. It's not existential for society. It's comparable to entertainment industries.


    Rubbish. If you get figures like that it shows that the way you arrived at the figures is wrong.


    I am saying that that wouldn't happen, that actually elderly people would just have somewhat (and probably not dramatically) more poorly managed chronic conditions, and a few people victim to very improbable accidents or very rare diseases (like serious infections in Western countries or cancers in children) would die who would otherwise have lived.


    Err, tanning booth operator? McDonalds table cleaner? Paper clip factory security guard?

    Almost no jobs are necessary to sustain human life and society, which is a good thing because it leaves plenty of people left over to do nice-to-have optional extra jobs like operating tanning booths, cleaning McDonalds' franchises, securing paper clip factories, and performing hip replacements.
    Not all infections have vaccinations, but they have some form of treatment, be it in the form of anti-biotics, anti-retrovirals etc. Without infections being treated it would rapidly spread.

    I never said you need a doctor to administer vaccines, but for a deadly disease like small-pox (which did kill millions), the vaccine was a crucial invention, which was made by a doctor called Edward Jenner. So, vaccines being invented on time is important.

    Cancer affects thousand of young people around the world. Treatment for cancer isn't perfect, but survival rates are higher than ever, and you may check the stats youself : http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/heal...e#heading-Zero

    Replacement of body parts and organs not existential ? Maybe to an extent. Human race will still survive, but millions will die across the world.
    You underestimate the importance of hip replacement. Having a new hip means, being more independent and having the capability to do more things yourself rather than relying on someone, which I'd say is very important for me. Although I have to admit that I'd rather use that funding for other life saving procedures.

    The figure for A&E admissions :
    http://digital.nhs.uk/article/6934/N...ces-in-England

    If an epidemic like ebola is not treated well, that will spread rapidly across the globe killing millions (regardless of age).

    You constantly seem to mention that most things affect older people. But shouldn't they be treated too, so that they can have a chance of living another 1 or 2 decades. We will all become old, and who knows what sort of treatment we may need.

    You are right, no jobs are needed for sustaining human life. Humans have survived for thousands of years without any of these, albeit with a lower quality of life and an early death.
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    (Original post by Marked Target)
    You can go from day to day not using medicine but try and live a day without numbers.
    Anyone can live without numbers or medicines. Humans have survived for thousands of years without any of these
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    (Original post by NPWorld)
    Anyone can live without numbers or medicines. Humans have survived for thousands of years without any of these
    Yeah, and look what we were doing! Rolling around in mud huts and caves, nah, science saved us from an animal existence.

    I'd say not using numbers at all during the day would be pretty hard. Take it as a challenge and see how long you can last.
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    (Original post by Marked Target)
    Yeah, and look what we were doing! Rolling around in mud huts and caves, nah, science saved us from an animal existence.

    I'd say not using numbers at all during the day would be pretty hard. Take it as a challenge and see how long you can last.

    Lol of course it is important.
    But in an emergency, we can live without either of those.
    For survival, all we need is food, water, shelter and a mate, for which we need nothing apart from common sense.

    Science definitely saved us all, without it, as you mentioned we would have been like animals, with no quality of life and a much reduced life expectancy (probably around 30-40 years)
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    (Original post by NPWorld)
    Lol of course it is important.
    But in an emergency, we can live without either of those.
    For survival, all we need is food, water, shelter and a mate, for which we need nothing apart from common sense.

    Science definitely saved us all, without it, as you mentioned we would have been like animals, with no quality of life and a much reduced life expectancy (probably around 30-40 years)
    But overall we're still dissatisfied with life.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    That's the point: they are not managed, people simply don't get infected with them. This is primarily due to improved sanitation.


    Sure, but a small number of people, most of whom are already relatively old.

    I am not saying this is useless, it's just not to be compared with the contributions of engineers, scientists, accountants, and lawyers, whose contributions are fundamental to the maintenance of a liveable society.
    I've only come in part-way through this discussion, but to clarify: are you making the case that medical professionals are not fundamental to the maintenance of a liveable society?
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    (Original post by Ladymusiclover)
    But overall we're still dissatisfied with life.

    So true !!! But I think this dissatisfaction may well be important. I'd imagine that it motivates us further to achieve more in life and come up with new inventions (some of which may well be terrible for us)
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    I've only come in part-way through this discussion, but to clarify: are you making the case that medical professionals are not fundamental to the maintenance of a liveable society?
    Essentially that's what he/she is saying. At least that's what I understood.
    I'm guessing that person is lucky enough to not ever need a doctor in their life
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    I've only come in part-way through this discussion, but to clarify: are you making the case that medical professionals are not fundamental to the maintenance of a liveable society?
    Doctors, yes.
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    I've only come in part-way through this discussion, but to clarify: are you making the case that medical professionals are not fundamental to the maintenance of a liveable society?
    I don't think anyone seriously thinks any of these careers are pointless or unimportant. (Though if scientists just stopped today life wouldn't get worse. It wouldn't get better either though.)

    This is just the elitism thread where various academic schools come to compete over who is the most elite.
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    (Original post by Marked Target)
    I don't think anyone seriously thinks any of these careers are pointless or unimportant. (Though if scientists just stopped today life wouldn't get worse. It wouldn't get better either though.)

    This is just the elitism thread where various academic schools come to compete over who is the most elite.
    I have to agree lol
    Coming to think of it, I kinda feel bad, but at the same time I had to defend my field, although I'd never claim a single profession as more superior to another. I think all are important in one way or another, or else life would either be harder or more boring. And in my opinion a lot of professions are interlinked too.
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    Nah Scientists > Engineers
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    (Original post by WhoDaresWins)
    Nah Scientists > Engineers
    Can't some engineers, doctors and others classify themselves as a scientist.
    With a strong knowledge in your field and with an interest research, isn't possible they can all call themselves scientist ?
    What defines someone as a scientist ?
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    (Original post by NPWorld)
    Can't some engineers, doctors and others classify themselves as a scientist.
    With a strong knowledge in your field and with an interest research, isn't possible they can all call themselves scientist ?
    What defines someone as a scientist ?
    Sweet Jesus I just wrote 3 words.
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    (Original post by WhoDaresWins)
    Sweet Jesus I just wrote 3 words.
    But if the 3 words involve claiming one profession to be better than the other, then i have to step in with a long reply. I just wanted to make you think about what you had said earlier.

    PS : To be precise, 3 words and a symbol
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    (Original post by NPWorld)
    But if the 3 words involve claiming one profession to be better than the other, then i have to step in with a long reply. I just wanted to make you think about what you had said earlier.

    PS : To be precise, 3 words and a symbol
    true
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    (Original post by NPWorld)
    Can't some engineers, doctors and others classify themselves as a scientist.
    With a strong knowledge in your field and with an interest research, isn't possible they can all call themselves scientist ?
    What defines someone as a scientist ?
    I would describe engineers as applied scientists and doctors as practitioners of scientific theory. I suppose you could lump doctors into applied scientists but i think this would offend both parties and I think what i would call applied scientists have more research to do than doctors.

    I don't see why you couldn't be a doctor and a scientist. To me, a scientist has connotations of research whereas a doctor doesn't necessarily do this (I doubt most of them do).
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    any love for translators?
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Doctors, yes.
    I'm pretty amazed that you think doctors are expendable in this regard in ways that lawyers and accountants are not. Engineers and scientists are in a bit of a separate category as they tend to solve longer term problems.
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    (Original post by Marked Target)
    I would describe engineers as applied scientists and doctors as practitioners of scientific theory. I suppose you could lump doctors into applied scientists but i think this would offend both parties and I think what i would call applied scientists have more research to do than doctors.

    I don't see why you couldn't be a doctor and a scientist. To me, a scientist has connotations of research whereas a doctor doesn't necessarily do this (I doubt most of them do).
    Yeah. This is what I'd love to do. Work as a doctor, but undertake some research. But you are right, the vast majority don't. With the education that we get, there is nothing that can stop us from conducting research in medical science though, but although most of the doctors in research don't really call themselves scientists.

    Especially nowadays in medicine, there is a huge emphasis on research.
    Plus, several inventions in medical science have been made by physicians with an interest in research.
 
 
 
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