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What is with the fixation on 'right to live and work' in the EU Watch

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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    A lot of maturity from someone who says 'a solution doesn't need to be a solution for a problem', but then again I didn't expect much from you.

    Also isn't it interesting how you are diverting all the attention from the argument, while I'm asking you to back up your points. Just shows how strong your argument is.
    Laughing makes someone immature? I see.

    Not my fault you are a joke of a poster and repeatedly write about things I have already answered. I won't humor your bias/intellectually dishonesty by repeating myself over and over.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Laughing makes someone immature? I see.

    Not my fault you are a joke of a poster and repeatedly write about things I have already answered. I won't humor your bias/intellectually dishonesty by repeating myself over and over.
    You're the one saying a "solution doesn't need to be a solution to a problem".

    Not my fault you can't help but contradict yourself.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    You're the one saying a "solution doesn't need to be a solution to a problem".

    Not my fault you can't help but contradict yourself.
    The only one contradicting themselves is you, with the first definition of solution that you provided.

    The only one not addressing the other's points is you, I just refuse to repeat myself. I don't humor trolls.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    The only one contradicting themselves is you, with the first definition of solution that you provided.

    The only one not addressing the other's points is you, I just refuse to repeat myself. I don't humor trolls.
    You're the one refusing all the mainstream definitions, and the one you specifically selected did say 'or problem'.
    Also, a ' difucult situation' is a problem, so not sure why you are constantly trying to deflect from the argument.

    Still waiting for a real solution from you by the way.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    You're the one refusing all the mainstream definitions, and the one you specifically selected did say 'or problem'.
    Also, a ' difucult situation' is a problem, so not sure why you are constantly trying to deflect from the argument.

    Still waiting for a real solution from you by the way.
    All? Not the one you first posted

    Still waiting for you to read my posts.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    All? Not the one you first posted

    Still waiting for you to read my posts.
    I have read all your posts.

    Your solutions do not work as I have explained, they do not fix the problem unless you want to violate their citizenship rights. Do you have any real solution or is that it?
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    I have read all your posts.

    Your solutions do not work as I have explained, they do not fix the problem unless you want to violate their citizenship rights. Do you have any real solution or is that it?
    You want to give citizenship to everyone entering the country?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    You want to give citizenship to everyone entering the country?
    I support a quota system for working permits which leads to citizenship.

    Does that mean I want to give citizenship to everyone entering?
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-to-live-in-uk

    Apparently Slovakia, Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic are preparing to 'veto' all Brexit deals unless the UK can guarantee its citizens their rights to live and work in the UK.

    Naturally I'm not surprised by their stance, as they seem to be the net beneficiaries of the free movement principle and the EU budget.

    However what I find strange is that many people in the EU feel that they have a birthright to live and work in the EU, even after a member nation had left the union.

    What happened to obtaining a working visa or satisfying citizenship requirement, like most other countries in the World?

    Why do they feel that they are entitled to live wherever they want in the EU?

    In my opinion this sense of entitlement is partly what corrupts the EU. Its citizens and politicians have no sense of duty to contribute and act in the interest of their nation. When the economy is bad, they can simply migrate to richer EU states to either get a job or claim benefits. Just look at countries like Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal. There is a lack of motivation for politicians to act in their country's interest as most of them considers the EU as their final career destination, and many had already landed a safe job in the EU. Many of their citizens now moving to richer EU states for better prospects. While their motives are understandable, this exodus of workforce and brain drain will only exacerbate their country's economy. Countries like Greece and Spain are now economic wasteland because of this lack of discipline from both ends.

    I also do not understand why freedom of movement is a compulsory element for free trade or the single market. Free trade itself is a mutually beneficial agreement where both sides benefits equally. The fact that the EU wants to add free movement to the negotiation table makes it clear that fairness is not what the EU is aiming for.

    For reasons I mentioned above, in my opinion the UK must not accept or compromise on free movement, even if it means trading with tariffs under WTO.

    Just as the V4 group is perfectly entitled to their stance, we must also be ready to defend our stance on this important issue.
    I agree
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    I support a quota system for working permits which leads to citizenship.

    Does that mean I want to give citizenship to everyone entering?
    Again you fail to see the point. You were criticizing my argument because of citizenship.

    Are you unable to understand what people write and answer, or do you just not do that because it doesn't go along with your arguments?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Again you fail to see the point. You were criticizing my argument because of citizenship.

    Are you unable to understand what people write and answer, or do you just not do that because it doesn't go along with your arguments?
    The argument is on citizenship, what you proposed is that we do not pay any social benefits to people who don't work. This is already the case for those with working visas, so it is not a solution. If you are referring to those who are already UK citizens, then we are denying their basic citizenship entitlement which is unlawful.

    Your other solution is to not 'put a quota on people but on the amount of time they have spent working/studying/living in the country'. This is what is called residency requirement, which at the moment is 6 years. So again this doesn't solve the existing problem because it is already a policy. Also the problem we are talking about is about those who are living in the UK but not working, and gaining citizenship after 6 years. You are not addressing the issue of entry of those who come here to live, depend on state benefits and gaining citizenship after 6 years, which is the problem we are talking about.

    As you see, I completely understood your points. However they just don't work, and they both are not solutions. You seem to have the habit of accusing people of not understanding your argument when your proposals are either existing policy which created the problem, or simply not a solution.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    The argument is on citizenship, what you proposed is that we do not pay any social benefits to people who don't work. This is already the case for those with working visas, so it is not a solution. If you are referring to those who are already UK citizens, then we are denying their basic citizenship entitlement which is unlawful.

    Your other solution is to not 'put a quota on people but on the amount of time they have spent working/studying/living in the country'. This is what is called residency requirement, which at the moment is 6 years. So again this doesn't solve the existing problem because it is already a policy. Also the problem we are talking about is about those who are living in the UK but not working, and gaining citizenship after 6 years. You are not addressing the issue of entry of those who come here to live, depend on state benefits and gaining citizenship after 6 years, which is the problem we are talking about.

    As you see, I completely understood your points. However they just don't work, and they both are not solutions. You seem to have the habit of accusing people of not understanding your argument when your proposals are either existing policy which created the problem, or simply not a solution.
    :facepalm:
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    :facepalm:
    To again repeat, what you are saying is already a policy, and it works well in its area, working visas, except that your proposal doesn't require them to obtain a working visa at the first place. What if the immigrant lives here, doesn't work, and lives on savings for 6 years and then obtaining citizenship? You aren't solving the problem just by not giving them state benefits for the first 6 years, merely deterring the poorly prepared ones. You are opening the door for people to come to the UK, without work, live in bad conditions for 6 years, and then start depending on the state.

    Also my comment that 'you are not addressing issue of entry of those who come here to live, depend on state benefits and gaining citizenship after 6 years' applies to your second solution. A requirement on the amount of time working/studying/living is basically a residency requirement. It opens door to the scenario above, if you allow EU nationals automatic entry with or without a job.

    How do you address the scenario mentioned above?
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    To again repeat, what you are saying is already a policy, and it works well in its area, working visas, except that your proposal doesn't require them to obtain a working visa at the first place. What if the immigrant lives here, doesn't work, and lives on savings for 6 years and then obtaining citizenship? You aren't solving the problem just by not giving them state benefits for the first 6 years, merely deterring the poorly prepared ones. You are opening the door for people to come to the UK, without work, live in bad conditions for 6 years, and then start depending on the state.

    Also my comment that 'you are not addressing issue of entry of those who come here to live, depend on state benefits and gaining citizenship after 6 years' applies to your second solution. As for your first solution, it does not work, as explained above. How do you address the scenario?
    :lol:

    I can see you are a Brexit voter.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    :lol:

    I can see you are a Brexit voter.
    And you are someone who are against our position despite not being able to offer a solution.

    How dare a sovereign state control its immigration policies and hold all EU citizens to the same immigration and visa requirement as people from the rest of the world.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    And you are someone who are against our position despite not being able to offer a solution.

    How dare a sovereign state control its immigration policies and hold all EU citizens to the same immigration and visa requirement as people from the rest of the world.
    Yup, that is why it's great you guys finally ****ed off.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Yup, that is why it's great you guys finally ****ed off.
    Self-reliance must be a foreign idea to you then. The British must be really bad people to want to prevent abuse of its immigration policy.

    By the way, still no solution to the scenario mentioned on post 153?
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Self-reliance must be a foreign idea to you then. The British must be really bad people to want to prevent abuse of its immigration policy.

    By the way, still no solution to the scenario mentioned on post 153?
    Actually you speak for just over half of you.

    And yes. That is what I have been telling you. And it's not a foreign idea to me at all, I am German

    If you bothered to read my posts carefully you would realize I have already answered that. But hey, I don't expect you ever will.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Actually you speak for just over half of you.

    And yes. That is what I have been telling you. And it's not a foreign idea to me at all, I am German

    If you bothered to read my posts carefully you would realize I have already answered that. But hey, I don't expect you ever will.
    That's how referendums are won, and how mandates are given. Democracy forms a collective position by majority.

    You have not answered how you are going to address the scenario of a EU citizen coming to the UK without work, live off personal savings or in very bad conditions, and then applying for citizenship after 6 years. Your reply to that was 'I can see you are a Brexit voter'. I await your solution, or would you like to keep dodging the question or start finding definitions to flip in the dictionary?
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    That's how referendums are won, and how mandates are given. Democracy forms a collective position by majority.

    You have not answered how you are going to address the scenario of a EU citizen coming to the UK without work, live off personal savings or in very bad conditions, and then applying for citizenship after 6 years. Your reply to that was 'I can see you are a Brexit voter'. I await your solution, or would you like to keep dodging the question or start finding definitions to flip in the dictionary?
    Oh, thanks, I never knew that is how it works. Again you show a complete lack of reading comprehension. You think winning a slight majority means you can project your views on the entire nation?
 
 
 
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