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    (Original post by iThrow)
    you've certainly wrote a lot but nothing that actually says the qu'ran had any kind of knowledge at all. see, here is where you (and all the others) go wrong. If the qu'ran says a "drop of fluid" or "mud" or something then you can't just say 'Well maybe they meant sperm!'

    I could pick any book and pick and choose meanings for words and come to similar conclusions to this. You have to ask yourself why, if the purpose of this qu'ran was to enlighten, then why write it in cryptic riddles? Why not some diagrams and stuff that would actually have been useful? Why is this stuff only discovered in the qu'ran after medical science has already discovered it? Surely it should be the other way around since the qu'ran had a few thousand years head start.

    Come back to me with facts not verses from the qu'ran which prove the qu'ran. That's not evidence it's wishful thinking at best and stunning naiveity at worst.

    edit; maybe you should give this a read also

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/11/03/islamic-apologetics-in-the-int

    a pretty good quote from it;
    Not to mention that he seems to be unaware that the scientist he's quoting, Keith Moore, distanced himself from the so-called embryology miracles once King Abdulazziz university stopped paying him!
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Not to mention that he seems to be unaware that the scientist he's quoting, Keith Moore, distanced himself from the so-called embryology miracles once King Abdulazziz university stopped paying him!
    haha yeah i saw it mentioned that it had been over a decade since he disgraced himself but the cited source was behind a paywall so i didn't want to bring it up.

    must be a pretty scary environment to do 'research' at that university. produce findings that in any way suggest apostasy and you're off to the the noose.
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    (Original post by iThrow)
    you've certainly wrote a lot but nothing that actually says the qu'ran had any kind of knowledge at all. see, here is where you (and all the others) go wrong. If the qu'ran says a "drop of fluid" or "mud" or something then you can't just say 'Well maybe they meant sperm!'

    I could pick any book and pick and choose meanings for words and come to similar conclusions to this. You have to ask yourself why, if the purpose of this qu'ran was to enlighten, then why write it in cryptic riddles? Why not some diagrams and stuff that would actually have been useful? Why is this stuff only discovered in the qu'ran after medical science has already discovered it? Surely it should be the other way around since the qu'ran had a few thousand years head start.

    Come back to me with facts not verses from the qu'ran which prove the qu'ran. That's not evidence it's wishful thinking at best and stunning naiveity at worst.

    edit; maybe you should give this a read also

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/11/03/islamic-apologetics-in-the-int

    a pretty good quote from it;
    type bdoctor keith moore and hell tell u for more info he was not a muslim
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    type bdoctor keith moore and hell tell u for more info he was not a muslim
    i think you're already way behind here chap. i seem to know your argument better than you know it. maybe it's because i actually research things and you just vomit out whatever the last witchdoctor/islamic cleric told you.
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    (Original post by iThrow)
    i think you're already way behind here chap. i seem to know your argument better than you know it. maybe it's because i actually research things and you just vomit out whatever the last witchdoctor/islamic cleric told you.
    i dont even know y your talking cuz u havent eve read the quran why dont u read and c for yourself but clearly as people are (deaf dumb and blind)
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    i dont even know y your talking cuz u havent eve read the quran why dont u read and c for yourself but clearly as people are (deaf dumb and blind)
    because the first thing i did when i read your drivel was google him. quickly discovered (as was pointed out by the other poster above) that he distanced himself over 10 years ago now from the qu'ran claims he made. The academic paper he submitted on the subject has been thoroughly rubbished and the fact that most of the citations within the paper point to pages from the qu'ran clearly highlights that it was just a religious piece dressed up as research. This is what I mean when I say I know your argument better than you; because I actually did google him and found out about him - whereas you just simply took it as face value when some other braindead muslim told you about him.

    and why would I want to read the qu'ran. it's a book of desert scribblings written supposedly by some pedophile who was alive thousands of years ago - i'll stick to modern scientific texts and you can read your mumbo-jumbo allah spellbook.

    if the world was as backward in its thinking as the arab world is there wouldn't even be an internet us to be communicating like this; we'd be in a cave drinking goats blood or idk whatever it is muslims do for fun. behead people or something.
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    (Original post by iThrow)
    because the first thing i did when i read your drivel was google him. quickly discovered (as was pointed out by the other poster above) that he distanced himself over 10 years ago now from the qu'ran claims he made. The academic paper he submitted on the subject has been thoroughly rubbished and the fact that most of the citations within the paper point to pages from the qu'ran clearly highlights that it was just a religious piece dressed up as research. This is what I mean when I say I know your argument better than you; because I actually did google him and found out about him - whereas you just simply took it as face value when some other braindead muslim told you about him.

    and why would I want to read the qu'ran. it's a book of desert scribblings written supposedly by some pedophile who was alive thousands of years ago - i'll stick to modern scientific texts and you can read your mumbo-jumbo allah spellbook.

    if the world was as backward in its thinking as the arab world is there wouldn't even be an internet us to be communicating like this; we'd be in a cave drinking goats blood or idk whatever it is muslims do for fun. behead people or something.
    if the quran is like as u calimed why are many people accepting ilsam and statistics shows that after 9/11 there are so many converts to islam
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    if the quran is like as u calimed why are many people accepting ilsam and statistics shows that after 9/11 there are so many converts to islam
    maybe because they stone you to death for apostasy in the arab world.

    you know, the average arab IQ is 75. retardation is an IQ of 70. I'd estimate you're around there.
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    if the quran is like as u calimed why are many people accepting ilsam and statistics shows that after 9/11 there are so many converts to islam
    And what about the rates of people leaving the religion? Isn't also punishable by death to renounce your faith in Islam?
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    (Original post by iThrow)
    maybe because they stone you to death for apostasy in the arab world.

    you know, the average arab IQ is 75. retardation is an IQ of 70. I'd estimate you're around there.
    you only estimated that becuz your own iq is way less than that
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    (Original post by 0xFFFFail)
    And what about the rates of people leaving the religion? Isn't also punishable by death to renounce your faith in Islam?
    thats not true the rate of people leaving islam is not even much its like 1 in a handful
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    thats not true the rate of people leaving islam is not even much its like 1 in a handful
    that's because you're put to death for apostasy in islamic countries - of course nobody leaves.

    you'll find in the west there is growing dissent against muslims - rightly so. dangerous, backward ideology.

    (Original post by honey55497)
    you only estimated that becuz your own iq is way less than that

    'fraid not. thousands of years of inbreeding (right even up till this day) have totally ruined the viability of the arab gene pool. if only your qu'ran book had told you about the dangers of incest.
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    thats not true the rate of people leaving islam is not even much its like 1 in a handful
    You didn't answer my question about whether or not it is punishable by death to renounce faith in Islam. Also if you're going to say the rate of leavers is 1 in a handful as a meaningful stat can't the same be said for converters?
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    (Original post by 0xFFFFail)
    You didn't answer my question about whether or not it is punishable by death to renounce faith in Islam. Also if you're going to say the rate of leavers is 1 in a handful as a meaningful stat can't the same be said for converters?
    theres differnt opinions and interpreatations about apostasy i belive that its wrong becuz theres differnt interpretations also u cant say the same about converters becuz statistics show this and i myself have witnessed so many people cinverting rather than leaving
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    btw i want to be clear here. I'm attacking your religion/ideology. You're a moron for believing all of it but as a person I have no issue with you - just your ideologies.



    (Original post by honey55497)
    theres differnt opinions and interpreatations about apostasy i belive that its wrong becuz theres differnt interpretations also u cant say the same about converters becuz statistics show this and i myself have witnessed so many people cinverting rather than leaving

    the teflon muslim haha. this is always a point the muslims try to dodge. but there is no escaping it - you know as well as the rest of us. in an islamic country you're put to death for apostasy. why dance around the truth?



    (Original post by honey55497)
    r u an athiest?
    yes
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    (Original post by iThrow)
    btw i want to be clear here. I'm attacking your religion/ideology. You're a moron for believing all of it but as a person I have no issue with you - just your ideologies.
    r u an athiest?
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    theres differnt opinions and interpreatations about apostasy i belive that its wrong becuz theres differnt interpretations also u cant say the same about converters becuz statistics show this and i myself have witnessed so many people cinverting rather than leaving
    Right, fair enough. However, would you mind sharing these stats on people flocking to become muslims?
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    (Original post by 0xFFFFail)
    Right, fair enough. However, would you mind sharing these stats on people flocking to become muslims?
    what do u mean flocking to become muslims i did not understand what u mean
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    what do u mean flocking to become muslims i did not understand what u mean
    you mentioned many people are converting to Islam, I would like to see the stats on this please.
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    (Original post by 0xFFFFail)
    you mentioned many people are converting to Islam, I would like to see the stats on this please.
    Fact Tank - Our Lives in Numbers April 23, 2015Why Muslims are the world’s fastest-growing religious groupBy Michael Lipka and Conrad Hackett541 comments The expected growth of Islam around the world is perhaps the most striking finding in the recent Pew Research Center report projecting the future of religious groups. Indeed, Muslims will grow more than twice as fast as the overall world population between 2010 and 2050 and, in the second half of this century, will likely surpass Christians as the world’s largest religious group.While the world’s population is projected to grow 35% in the coming decades, the number of Muslims is expected to increase by 73% – from 1.6 billion in 2010 to 2.8 billion in 2050. In 2010, Muslims made up 23.2% of the global population. Four decades later, they are expected to make up about three-in-ten of the world’s people (29.7%).By 2050, Muslims will be nearly as numerous as Christians, who are projected to remain the world’s largest religious group at 31.4% of the global population.The main reasons for Islam’s growth ultimately involve simple demographics. To begin with, Muslims have more children than members of the seven other major religious groups analyzed in the study. Each Muslim woman has an average of 3.1 children, significantly above the next-highest group (Christians at 2.7) and the average of all non-Muslims (2.3). In all major regions where there is a sizable Muslim population, Muslim fertility exceeds non-Muslim fertility.The growth of the Muslim population also is helped by the fact that Muslims have the youngest median age (23 in 2010) of all major religious groups, seven years younger than the median age of non-Muslims (30). A larger share of Muslims will soon be at the point in their lives when people begin having children. This, combined with high fertility rates, will accelerate Muslim population growth.More than a third of Muslims are concentrated in Africa and the Middle East, regions that are projected to have the biggest population increases. But even within these high-growth regions – as well as others – Muslims are projected to grow faster than members of other groups. For example, Muslims in sub-Saharan Africa, on average, are younger and have higher fertility than the overall population of the region. In fact, Muslims are expected to grow as a percentage of every region except Latin America and the Caribbean, where relatively few Muslims live.The same dynamics hold true in many countries where Muslims live in large numbers alongside other religious groups. For example, India’s number of Muslims is growing at a faster rate than the country’s majority Hindu population, and is projected to rise from 14.4% of India’s 2010 population to 18.4% (or 311 million people) in 2050. And while there were roughly equal numbers of Muslims and Christians in Nigeria as of 2010, Muslims have higher fertility there and are expected to grow to a solid majority of Nigeria’s population (58.5%) in 2050.Meanwhile, religious switching, which is expected to hinder the growth of some other religious groups, is not expected to have a negative net impact on Muslims. By contrast, between 2010 and 2050, Christianity is projected to have a net loss of more than 60 million adherents worldwide through religious switching.

    It is a fact that Islam is growing rapidly in the West. In the U.S. alone the number of Muslims has risen dramatically, from about 10,000 in 1900 to 3 million or more in 1991 (some authorities say 4.5 million). Most of this growth is due to recent immigration and the high birth rate of Muslims (5 children per family on average), rather than to conversion. Still, the number of those who convert to Islam is significant. In the U.S., the majority are African-American (a third of all Muslims according to most authorities), but there have also been significant numbers of Anglos to convert as well, many of them well-educated.
    What is motivating people to turn to Islam? A recent article in Christianity Today (Aug 20,1990) reported that in the U.S., the average age of those converting to Islam (31) is about twice that for conversion to Christian faith (age 16). It listed 5 main reasons given for becoming Muslim: Islam's doctrine is simple and rational, all believers are equal, it is a "practical" religion, and lacks a priesthood. I read and clipped the article at the time, but when I recently pulled it out to re-read it, it struck me that those "reasons" merely parrot the arguments Muslim apologists use to propagate Islam. On reflection, I would say that all that they show is that Muslim apologetics is having some effect, but these are not necessarily what is motivating Americans to become Muslim.
    An American Muslim interviewed in a fairly recent book (Neighbors: Muslims in North America. Friendship Press, 1989) gave the following reasons when asked why African-Americans are turning to Islam. I have heard the same things from African-Americans in Philadelphia more than once. First on his list is racism in the church. "The discrimination that we feel makes Islam attractive to us because it's a way of rejecting the culture that will not have us. In sociological terms I think that one of the reasons that many African-Americans go to Islam as opposed to Christianity--and many of us have been raised Christian--is that the people doing these things to us are also Christian." How often does one not hear it said, "America is no more segregated than at eleven o'clock on Sunday mornings." The second reason he gives is, I believe, also important in the conversion of Anglo-Americans. "Another factor--and this is part of what attracted me to Islam--is direction and discipline." Our society is disintegrating for lack of discipline, especially in the city. Through its disciplined life-style, to many people Islam seems to hold out the promise of helping them get their lives back in order again.
    Finally, there is a third factor which probably no one would ever mention explicitly, for obvious reasons, but which, I believe, is nevertheless important. This is the fact that Islam offers a conversion experience and the opportunity to get one's life in order, without needing to confess ones sin and need of salvation. In fact, Islam makes quite a point of denying these truths. It tells people they do not need salvation; all they need is to follow the "guidance" of God's law, and they will make it to heaven. That is something the natural man likes to hear.
    and it also came on bbc
 
 
 
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