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Black lives matter or All lives matter?

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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    Is this satire?

    When has that been said LOL, if a women choses to work over a family thats her choice nobody is going to label her for it. lol...

    On the point of domestic violcene? Women can do that too so dont act like all men are evil pigs who beat Women because I personally know that isn't true.

    Government under representation? Or maybe, women dont want to work in politics or government.
    I am not saying men are evil pigs in the slightest, I'm saying women are more prone to it.
    'Nobody' is going to label her for it? You might not but that's not societies view on it.
    http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/pol...WTEaAvzQ8P8HAQ
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Unarmed does not mean not a threat Michael brown was unarmed but that officer would of been dead if he didn't shoot as brown would of got his gun
    Actually that's not true, many witnesses have actually testified that Michael Brown was walking forward with his hands in the air saying "OK" when the officer was asking him to surrender. He was trying to surrender when he was fatally shot.
    Other examples of unarmed and nonthreatening police brutality victims include:
    Eric Garner (who I mentioned in my previous post) who was on the ground struggling to breathe (and therefore had no chance of overpowering the officer)
    Tanisha Anderson who went limp while being escorted to hospital by police (notice she went limp, she wasn't making any threatening movements at all) and was then pushed to the ground and had her head slammed on the floor (she later died)
    Tamir Rice, a 12 year old who was playing with a toy gun
    Rumain Brisbon who was fatally shot after an officer mistook a pill bottle for a weapon
    Akai Gurley, who was "accidentally" shot by a police officer as he was walking through an apartment block with his girlfriend
    Joyce Curnell who was hauled out of hospital and sent to jail despite being severely ill - she was denied medical treatment by police officers and later died of dehydration because she had thrown up too much
    Philando Castile who was pulled over for a broken tail light and was shot (in front of his girlfriend and her young daughter might I add) as he was reaching for his wallet to show the officer his ID
    Aiyana Mo'Nay Stanley-Jones, a 7 year old girl who was shot by police during a raid on her house
    Those are just the first few examples that came up when I googled it.
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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    I can tell a lot of effort went into this, at least I can thank you for structuring a proper argument. However all likeliness statistics aside, it happens to ALL races, therefore the focus is still unfair, especially considering it happens to the Whites more. Likeliness is irrelevant when these people are already dead and more people are already dead that are White. What is Likeliness when more Whites are already dead than Blacks.
    The point is that black people are more likely to be victims of police brutality than white people, and therefore it's clear that black people are discriminated against by the police. In the eyes of the police who commit police brutality, black lives don't matter (or even if they do, they matter less than white lives), which is why the term "black lives matter" is more appropriate to use than "all lives matter".
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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    No no, what you're saying is because I dont agree with your point I haven't done my research. I am sorry but I have and what I have seen and come to the conclusion is that it seems unfair, and to me like there is a bigger problem at large than race inequality.
    Nope im saying what I said, but I am talking about your OP and the way it is set out. Clearly doesnt give the impression you had done any and thats what I object to.

    How it came about and its ideology is stated on the website.
    Whether you agree or disagree with it is a different matter.
    You cant blame them for looking to protect their own interest group, just as others protect theirs. They have strong historical reasons and interests in wanting to do so.

    You would be better off discussing this on a site like quora.
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    I struggle to understand the OP. But, I'll end with this. People support and advocate the movement because black lives haven't mattered in the past. Those sentiments still exist and inequality is apparent.

    The backlash against people who support the movement and draw attention to the injustices that are faced are shocking and should be discouraged.
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    (Original post by Twiggyrose)
    Actually that's not true, many witnesses have actually testified that Michael Brown was walking forward with his hands in the air saying "OK" when the officer was asking him to surrender. He was trying to surrender when he was fatally shot.
    Other examples of unarmed and nonthreatening police brutality victims include:
    Eric Garner (who I mentioned in my previous post) who was on the ground struggling to breathe (and therefore had no chance of overpowering the officer)
    Tanisha Anderson who went limp while being escorted to hospital by police (notice she went limp, she wasn't making any threatening movements at all) and was then pushed to the ground and had her head slammed on the floor (she later died)
    Tamir Rice, a 12 year old who was playing with a toy gun
    Rumain Brisbon who was fatally shot after an officer mistook a pill bottle for a weapon
    Akai Gurley, who was "accidentally" shot by a police officer as he was walking through an apartment block with his girlfriend
    Joyce Curnell who was hauled out of hospital and sent to jail despite being severely ill - she was denied medical treatment by police officer and later died of dehydration because she had thrown up too much
    Philando Castile who was pulled over for a broken tail light and was shot (in front of his girlfriend and her young daughter might I add) as he was reaching for his wallet to show the officer his ID
    Aiyana Mo'Nay Stanley-Jones, a 7 year old girl who was shot by police during a raid on her house
    Those are just the first few examples that came up when I googled it.
    And the forensics proved that they were not telling the truth what the witnesses said was that he was retreating with his hands up which was proven to be lies there are also witnesses who said that if the officer hadn't shot the officer would be dead but by all means discount forensics and the witnesses that contradict this.

    How many surrendering people put there hand close to a cops gun?

    Garner was a big man who was took to the ground it was unfortunate he had health problems and that contributed to his death but was he targeted for nothing? No he committed a crime, did he resist arrest? Yes, so they took him to the ground.

    I don't know about Tanisha so I can't comment.

    You mean Tamir was pointing a gun at people and police responded, there are problems throughout this case which led to the shots being fired but none of them are race related, it is things like not relaying it was probably a toy gun and stopping so close to him.

    Brisbon a drug dealer who had his hand on something in his pocket and fought with police who were judged to have a reasonable belief their life could of been in danger.

    Akai gurley the cop has been convicted but I can hardly call a ricocheted bullet racially motivated.

    Castille was an armed robbery suspect with a gun, who was their is irrelevant and the only word it happened like that is his wife and daughter who are at best unreliable witnesses when eye witnesses are already unreliable.

    Ayiana i haven't heard of but a quick look on wiki and it seems that although the officer shot the situation isn't entirely clear everything what happened.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Nope im saying what I said, but I am talking about your OP and the way it is set out. Clearly doesnt give the impression you had done any and thats what I object to.

    How it came about and its ideology is stated on the website.
    Whether you agree or disagree with it is a different matter.
    You cant blame them for looking to protect their own interest group, just as others protect theirs. They have strong historical reasons and interests in wanting to do so.

    You would be better off discussing this on a site like quora.
    What are your thoughts on BLM demanding segregation at some of their events?
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    Black lives matter in the UK seems to be a bunch of white middle class students trying to pretend we're America. I just don't understand it over it.

    Across the pond? Sure I get it. Sadly they have attracted bad people who just want to protest rather then fix the problems (and America does have problems regardless of how bad you see them to be) but there you go. Different culture so they have to deal with things in their own way.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    And the forensics proved that they were not telling the truth what the witnesses said was that he was retreating with his hands up which was proven to be lies there are also witnesses who said that if the officer hadn't shot the officer would be dead but by all means discount forensics and the witnesses that contradict this.

    Garner was a big man who was took to the ground it was unfortunate he had health problems and that contributed to his death but was he targeted for nothing? No he committed a crime, did he resist arrest? Yes, so they took him to the ground.

    I don't know about Tanisha so I can't comment.

    You mean Tamir was pointing a gun at people and police responded, there are problems throughout this case which led to the shots being fired but none of them are race related, it is things like not relaying it was probably a toy gun and stopping so close to him.

    Brisbon a drug dealer who had his hand on something in his pocket and fought with police who were judged to have a reasonable belief their life could of been in danger.

    Akai gurley the cop has been convicted but I can hardly call a ricocheted bullet racially motivated.

    Castille was an armed robbery suspect with a gun, who was their is irrelevant and the only word it happened like that is his wife and daughter who are at best unreliable witnesses when eye witnesses are already unreliable.

    Ayiana i haven't heard of but a quick look on wiki and it seems that although the officer shot the situation isn't entirely clear everything what happened.
    Like you said with Michael Brown, there were contradicting witnesses, but there were a significant enough amount of witnesses who claimed that Brown was surrendering that show that there was a lot of uncertainty over whether or not Brown was actually being threatening and therefore the officer should have reconsidered shooting him. But even if Brown was charging, the officer used excessive force - he did not need to be shot six times, neither did he need to be shot in the head twice. If it was absolutely essential that Brown be shot, the officer should have aimed at somewhere less obviously fatal.

    As for Garner, yes, resisting arrest is wrong - I'm not advocating that he shouldn't have been arrested. All I'm saying is that excessive force was used. Once Garner was on the ground it would have been easy enough to out handcuffs on him, there was no need to keep him in a chokehold until he literally choked to death.

    Tamir Rice was shot by the officer within seconds of arriving on the scene, there was no time for that officer to establish the situation - he just shot without thinking things through. Rice then lay there bleeding out on the floor for four minutes while the officers stood around - by that point they should have realised that he was a child and started giving him first aid. A memo released by the police department after the shooting revealed that Timothy Loehmann (one of the officers involved) had resigned rather than face termination at his previous police department after concerns were raised that he lacked the emotional stability to be a police officer. The other officer, Frank Garmback, had already had a lawsuit against him for excessive force during an arrest.

    As for Brisbon, being a drug dealer does not mean that he deserved to be killed. I can understand that the officers thought they were being threatened, and in that case it would have been perfectly appropriate to get out the gun and point it at him, but there was no need to actually shoot unless Brisbon actually pulled a gun out.

    Castile was pulled over for a broken tail light. Yes, he did look like someone who was a robbery suspect, but all he was trying to do was show his ID to the officers to prove that he wasn't the robbery suspect. And it isn't just his girlfriend and her daughter's "word", his girlfriend recorded the entire confrontation and uploaded it to Facebook Live.

    Aiyana was shot in the head, and it has been proven that the bullet came from Officer Joseph Weekley's gun, and the only fingerprints on the gun were his (disproving his claim that Aiyana's grandmother had grabbed the gun, which is the only uncertainty about this case). I'm not sure how much more evidence is needed. I'm not trying to claim that he shot her on purpose, but that it was reprehensible that fact that not only was the charge of involuntary manslaughter brought against him dismissed, but so was the reckless endangerment with a gun charge.
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    (Original post by Twiggyrose)
    Like you said with Michael Brown, there were contradicting witnesses, but there were a significant enough amount of witnesses who claimed that Brown was surrendering that show that there was a lot of uncertainty over whether or not Brown was actually being threatening and therefore the officer should have reconsidered shooting him. But even if Brown was charging, the officer used excessive force - he did not need to be shot six times, neither did he need to be shot in the head twice. If it was absolutely essential that Brown be shot, the officer should have aimed at somewhere less obviously fatal.

    As for Garner, yes, resisting arrest is wrong - I'm not advocating that he shouldn't have been arrested. All I'm saying is that excessive force was used. Once Garner was on the ground it would have been easy enough to out handcuffs on him, there was no need to keep him in a chokehold until he literally choked to death.

    Tamir Rice was shot by the officer within seconds of arriving on the scene, there was no time for that officer to establish the situation - he just shot without thinking things through. Rice then lay there bleeding out on the floor for four minutes while the officers stood around - by that point they should have realised that he was a child and started giving him first aid. A memo released by the police department after the shooting revealed that Timothy Loehmann (one of the officers involved) had resigned rather than face termination at his previous police department after concerns were raised that he lacked the emotional stability to be a police officer. The other officer, Frank Garmback, had already had a lawsuit against him for excessive force during an arrest.

    As for Brisbon, being a drug dealer does not mean that he deserved to be killed. I can understand that the officers thought they were being threatened, and in that case it would have been perfectly appropriate to get out the gun and point it at him, but there was no need to actually shoot unless Brisbon actually pulled a gun out.

    Castile was pulled over for a broken tail light. Yes, he did look like someone who was a robbery suspect, but all he was trying to do was show his ID to the officers to prove that he wasn't the robbery suspect. And it isn't just his girlfriend and her daughter's "word", his girlfriend recorded the entire confrontation and uploaded it to Facebook Live.

    Aiyana was shot in the head, and it has been proven that the bullet came from Officer Joseph Weekley's gun, and the only fingerprints on the gun were his (disproving his claim that Aiyana's grandmother had grabbed the gun, which is the only uncertainty about this case). I'm not sure how much more evidence is needed. I'm not trying to claim that he shot her on purpose, but that it was reprehensible that fact that not only was the charge of involuntary manslaughter brought against him dismissed, but so was the reckless endangerment with a gun charge.
    where should he have shot? The arm, leg or some other place that is almost impossible to hit?

    The evidence shows that browns hand was on the officers thigh near the gun, on the door handle and the blood was on the side of the door, it also was on the officers trousers, this evidence proves that he was a threat to the officers life or do you have a alternative reason for why brown was reaching into the police car near the officers gun?

    You underestimate how hard it is to handcuff someone who is resisting arrest brown is much bigger than this man and this man avoided being handcuffed for a while
    https://youtu.be/pEsZkTTgydc

    And why was no charges filled because the shooting was justified but the problems come from the buildup to it, the driver of the police car put them to close to deal with it properly and the report it was probably fake wasn't passed on, it is also worth noting if you look at the toy gun he had it is hard to tell it from a real gun.

    This isn't a movie a someone could start shooting in a fraction of a second before a officer could react, it is possible to draw and shoot in less than 0.1 second (admittedly that is for experts) but it's possible, a cop can't react anywhere as near as that it is said for a cop to asses and stop shooting it would take around .5 seconds so assuming it is slightly quicker it still gives them a window where they are vulnerable.

    So the video includes the shooting? From what I saw if it all it included was from after the shooting.

    Well from that why is race a factor? BLM claim that blacks are targeted and you aren't claiming that this is a case of blacks being targeted, from the little bit I have read I would agree it seems he should of been guilty of at reckless endangerment but like I have said I don't know enough about this to make a concrete judgement, unlike the charlotte shooting recently when the man was told to drop the gun 11 times but kept advancing on the officers.
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    (Original post by Elise213)
    BLM
    Cool.
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    (Original post by SomeGuyHere)
    Black lives matter in the UK seems to be a bunch of white middle class students trying to pretend we're America. I just don't understand it over it.

    Across the pond? Sure I get it. Sadly they have attracted bad people who just want to protest rather then fix the problems (and America does have problems regardless of how bad you see them to be) but there you go. Different culture so they have to deal with things in their own way.
    Fair point, maybe we're seeing this from a twisted or biased view.
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    What is interesting about BLM is the fact they act like black lives don't matter.

    In charlotte they are protesting a black police officer confronted by an armed man who felt in necessary to protect his life after the armed man ignored 11 commands to drop the gun, does the black cops life matter to them, obviously not.

    When they are burning businesses and looting them they tend to be businesses owned by black people.

    They even kill each other while protesting and then instead of cooperating with police to help catch the murderer they blame the police for the shooting.

    These issues beg the question do black lives matter to black lives matter?
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    (Original post by Jacarch12)
    But they killed more whites, I dont get it.
    not when they were unarmed.

    In 2015, unarmed black men were killed by police at a rate greater than 5 times of unarmed white men
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    What is interesting about BLM is the fact they act like black lives don't matter.

    In charlotte they are protesting a black police officer confronted by an armed man who felt in necessary to protect his life after the armed man ignored 11 commands to drop the gun, does the black cops life matter to them, obviously not.

    When they are burning businesses and looting them they tend to be businesses owned by black people.

    They even kill each other while protesting and then instead of cooperating with police to help catch the murderer they blame the police for the shooting.

    These issues beg the question do black lives matter to black lives matter?
    Black lives don't matter to BLM -- blaming whitey matters to BLM.

    Black people are gunning each other down every day in droves, at rates higher than any other race. But when they cooperate with the police? Snitching. When they try to make something of themselves and do well at school? Dey bein' white!

    But wait, a cop just shot a black guy! Unite! Riot! Burn down the neighborhood! Black lives matter! And any black person not on board is an Uncle Tom!
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    (Original post by JavaScriptMaster)
    not when they were unarmed.

    In 2015, unarmed black men were killed by police at a rate greater than 5 times of unarmed white men
    Unarmed doesn't mean they aren't a threat. A guy trying to grab a police officer's gun or trying to beat him to death is technically unarmed, for instance.

    Anyway, the number of people killed unarmed is a very small sample of the population.

    We also need to take into account the fact that black people are more likely to be involved in crime and live in high-crime areas, making them more likely to interact with the police and have potentially deadly encounters.
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    All lives matter.

    BLM has evolved into a domestic terrorist organisation which encourages racial segregation and black supremacy. It's a disgrace to humanity.

    These guys speak the truth on the matter:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4h3P-NjblE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg85PHelWl8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZ9UpGcoew
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYZvOWby-TU
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Unarmed doesn't mean they aren't a threat. A guy trying to grab a police officer's gun or trying to beat him to death is technically unarmed, for instance.

    Anyway, the number of people killed unarmed is a very small sample of the population.

    We also need to take into account the fact that black people are more likely to be involved in crime and live in high-crime areas, making them more likely to interact with the police and have potentially deadly encounters.
    Well don't you know everything? You should go get a job in politics right now
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    (Original post by JavaScriptMaster)
    Well don't you know everything? You should go get a job in politics right now
    Fighting a cop and going for his gun is classed as unarmed are you going to say in that situation the officers life isn't in danger?
 
 
 
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