Struggling with homophobia in the church.

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    (Original post by medic997)
    They haven't found a specific gene nor any environmental factor(s) that determines sexuality so...if that's the case I'm guessing it is a choice...? Well if they found anything it hasn't been proven yet. I'm just seeing a lot of "May be this and may be that"

    http://thefederalist.com/2015/07/08/...l-orientation/
    This is an interesting piece. Quite lengthy but engaging. It gives an interesting sociological and philosophical point of view on it.

    That is sad about the therapy...but as I said I'm indifferent or have no opinions about the practice.
    Just because there is no specific gene doesnt mean its not genetic.Take intelligence for example,a large part of that is genetic.Yet we can't pinpoint a single gene thats responsible.Its likely a combination of different genes.Or its certain genes that only activate in the right environments.With something like eye colour there is a single gene responsible for it.I suspect sexuality is more like intelligence its many different factors working together.And you say there is no gene for sexuality but by your logic being straight is a choice? Where is the straight gene?
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    Just because there is no specific gene doesnt mean its not genetic.Take intelligence for example,a large part of that is genetic.Yet we can't pinpoint a single gene thats responsible.Its likely a combination of different genes.Or its certain genes that only activate in the right environments.With something like eye colour there is a single gene responsible for it.I suspect sexuality is more like intelligence its many different factors working together.And you say there is no gene for sexuality but by your logic being straight is a choice? Where is the straight gene?
    I guess what Toughtee was saying is there is genetic factors. And yeah I can like a woman or both male and female if I wanted to. I do believe that I chose to be straight. I also choose who I love. Take marriage for an example. After many years of marriage spouses might not feel all butterflies and google eyed about each other. But they chose to love each other through whatever, even when they don't feel like it. That is why I think love is a choice. I see it all around me in my community. One of my old high school classmates said that she chose to be a lesbian because it was the "in" thing at the time. She liked to be rebellious xD People would say she isn't a true lesbian but if she identifies herself as such why tell her otherwise? xD
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    (Original post by medic997)
    Hmmm. So if I have the alcoholic gene and I grew up in an alcoholic environment, it justifies that it is right for me to be an alcoholic, because it's my gene?
    Well I don't know enough about the role of choice in alcoholism, but I'll assume (for this argument) that there isn't a choice component. The analogy isn't quite correct as it can be shown that being an alcoholic causes harm to yourself, others and society as a whole; whereas a loving and consensual homosexual relationship causes no such harm.

    (Original post by medic997)
    So...if sexuality is decided by the mother's genes, then homosexual fathers would be least likely to produce homosexual, bisexual (or any other sexuality other than heterosexuality) children...unless they use a homosexual woman's egg...and therefore lessens the number of homosexual children every generation depending on if homosexual women have their own children. And if homosexual people just adopt children...then maybe it's "evolution's" way of survival of the fittest or you survive by reproduction...interesting...so there is a tiny..slight chance that any other sexuality other than heterosexuality would be...possibly extinct? If we were to apply this theory to Darwin's...? Would you consider that a good thing?
    I think this a massive oversimplification of genetics and sexual reproduction on a cellular level. There most likely isn't a single gene that determines if an individual will be gay or not and there is also an element of random mutation in the genes during reproduction, so such genes may not come from either the mother or the father.

    It's interesting to ponder why evolution has led to homosexual behaviour, but judging by its prevalence amongst other members of the animal kingdom, I don't think it will become extinct.
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    (Original post by medic997)
    I guess what Toughtee was saying is there is genetic factors. And yeah I can like a woman or both male and female if I wanted to. I do believe that I chose to be straight. I also choose who I love. Take marriage for an example. After many years of marriage spouses might not feel all butterflies and google eyed about each other. But they chose to love each other through whatever, even when they don't feel like it. That is why I think love is a choice. I see it all around me in my community. One of my old high school classmates said that she chose to be a lesbian because it was the "in" thing at the time. She liked to be rebellious xD People would say she isn't a true lesbian but if she identifies herself as such why tell her otherwise? xD
    No you could have sex with a man or a woman if you chose to.But if you had sex with the man it would not make you gay.You would be gay if you had an attraction to the man.If you had no attraction though then you would just be a straight guy who did it with a man.I don't think you chose to be straight.The key thing here is attraction.Let me put it another way.If you see a pretty girl walking down the street, you just look instinctively.There is no thought involved.Likewise if I walk into a room I can generally tell who I'm attracted to instantly without really thinking it through.Its a subconcious thing.I don't think "you know what I choose to be attracted to you today" Its more along the lines of "you're hot".So you can choose who you have sex with but not who you are attracted to.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    To genuinely reform these churches they need either young people to take a lead and proceed to outlaw these hate preachers, or they need to cut them out.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    It took Britain years to 'get' Anjem Choudary, and he was only sentenced to five and a half years in prison. It's not looking great.
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    (Original post by Toughtee)

    It's interesting to ponder why evolution has led to homosexual behaviour, but judging by its prevalence amongst other members of the animal kingdom, I don't think it will become extinct.
    I bring it up quite a lot in this forum, but have a look at the Gay Uncle hypothesis.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    No you could have sex with a man or a woman if you chose to.But if you had sex with the man it would not make you gay.You would be gay if you had an attraction to the man.If you had no attraction though then you would just be a straight guy who did it with a man.I don't think you chose to be straight.The key thing here is attraction.Let me put it another way.If you see a pretty girl walking down the street, you just look instinctively.There is no thought involved.Likewise if I walk into a room I can generally tell who I'm attracted to instantly without really thinking it through.Its a subconcious thing.I don't think "you know what I choose to be attracted to you today" Its more along the lines of "you're hot".So you can choose who you have sex with but not who you are attracted to.
    I think Medic is trying to show you that these concepts of "sexual orientation" are really identities that we choose to adopt. Yes you can be attracted to various things. But you make decisions on who to pursue.

    You are implying that the girl Medic was describing wasn't a genuine bissexual or homosexual, but that just highlights the fact that these are simply identities we adopt. It's not about who people are. It's about who they decide to be.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
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