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Is it time to ban democracy? watch

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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Here is a list of all the insults hurled by Trump on Twitter alone since declaring his candidacy. 282 targets, 4000 tweets, 1 in every 8 tweets made contained a personal insult of some kind.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ults.html?_r=0

    Why is the left and centre held to high moral standards but the right can get away with murder?

    In the spoiler is just 3/4 of the insults levelled against Hillary Clinton, which maxes out TSR's character limit...

    Spoiler:
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    Recently insulted:















    DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES

    Hillary ClintonDEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“FAILED ALL OVER THE WORLD”“loves to lie”“She'll say anything and change NOTHING!”“Crooked”“a Wall Street PUPPET!”“has never created a job in her life”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“a foreign policy DISASTER”“you have failed, failed, and failed”“no solutions, no ideas, no credibility”“too weak to lead”“the most corrupt person to ever run for the presidency of the United States”“If we let Crooked run the govt, history will remember 2017 as the year America lost its independence”“So CROOKED”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Such a dishonest person”“crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“SO CORRUPT!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“should be in jail”“Crooked”“PAY TO PLAY POLITICS”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Fraud”“Crooked”“disgraceful behavior”“unfit to run”“Crooked”“Hypocrite”“Hypocrite!”“nothing Hillary has said about her secret server has been true”“there's never been anything like your lies”“If I win-I am going to instruct my AG to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation”“Crooked”“has only created jobs at the FBI and DOJ!”“Crooked”“Owned by Wall St and Politicians”“Crooked”“nasty to Sanders supporters behind closed doors”“Crooked”“Crooked”“suffers from BAD JUDGEMENT!”“Crooked”“terrible!”“not getting the job done”“failing for 30 years”“Crooked”“failed all over the world”“a typical politician”“all talk, no action”“taking the day off again, she needs the rest”“puts the plane behind her like I have been doing from the beginning”“copying my airplane rallies”“Crooked”“Crooked”“said horrible things about my supporters”“SO INSULTING to my supporters”“Crooked”“very dumb”“Unfit to serve as #POTUS”“totally confused”“just gave a disastrous news conference”“Lyin'”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“doesn't have the strength or the stamina to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!”“doesn't have the drive or stamina to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!”“Crooked”“has BAD JUDGEMENT”“brainpower is highly overrated, decision making is so bad”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“called African-American youth “SUPER PREDATORS””“will NEVER be able to solve the problems of poverty, education and safety”“Crooked”“SABOTAGE OF THE INNER CITIES”“CORRUPTION”“only knows how to make a speech when it is a hit on me”“No policy”“using the oldest play in the Dem playbook”“all talk and NO ACTION!”“using race-baiting”“pandering to the worst instincts in our society”“She should be ashamed of herself!”“crooked”“fear-mongering!”“lies”“LIE!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“not a talented person or politician”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“not fit to be our next president!”“Anybody whose mind 'SHORT CIRCUITS' is not fit to be our president! Look up the word 'BRAINWASHED.”“Crooked”“Very dangerous!”“bad judgment”“unfit to serve as President”“incompetent”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR!”“100% owned by her donors”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“has very small and unenthusiastic crowds in Pennsylvania”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“a formula for disaster!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“extraordinarily bad judgement & insticts”“a lose cannon”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“very long and very boring speech”“Crooked”“Crooked”“no one has worse judgement”“corruption and devastation follows her”“owned by Wall Street!”“unfit to lead the country”“Crooked”“wants to flood our country with Syrian immigrants that we know little or nothing about”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“a liar!”“incompetent”“Crooked”“Crooked”“betrayed Bernie voters”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“judgement so bad”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“not at all loyal”“Crooked”“Crooked”“BAD JUDGEMENT”“Crooked”“killed jobs!”“Crooked”“destroyed jobs and manufacturing”“Against steelworkers and miners”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“look at all of the bad decisions she has made”“Crooked”“led Obama into bad decisions!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“bought and paid for by Wall Street, lobbyists and special interests”“will sell our country down the tubes!”“has made so many mistakes”“Crooked”“a DISASTER on foreign policy”“embarrassed herself and the country with her e-mail lies”“Crooked”“Crooked”“email lies”“negative ads are not true”“Crooked”“fraudulent”“Having ZERO impact”“Crooked”“Sad!!”“Crooked”“Lyin'”“Crooked”“not qualified”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“not qualified!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“WEAK leadership”“Crooked”“lies”“Lyin' Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“sooooo guilty”“lied to the FBI and to the people of our country”“dishonest”“Crooked”“very bad judgement”“incompetent”“Crooked”“Not fit!”“Her temperament is weak”“BAD JUDGEMENT!”“unfit to serve as President”“Crooked”“Crooked”“As usual, bad judgment.”“A total disgrace!”“Crooked”“guilty as hell”“will NEVER be able to handle the complexities and danger of ISIS”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“As Bernie Sanders said, Hillary Clinton has bad judgement. Bill's meeting was probably initiated and demanded by Hillary!”“sellng out America”“Not capable!”“Presidency would be catastrophic”“bad judgment”“ill-fit”“Crooked”“Lying”“Crooked”“Crooked”“such bad judgement”“no sense of markets”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Disgraceful!”“bad judgement”“Crooked”“All talk, no action!”“Crooked”“Crooked”“would be a disaster”“may be the most corrupt person ever to seek the presidency”“Crooked”“will be a disaster for jobs and the economy!”“dangerous”“defrauded America”“Corrupt”“dishonest”“judgement has killed thousands, unleashed ISIS and wrecked the economy”“Crooked”“bad judgment”“failed policies”“Crooked”“totally unfit to be our president”“really bad judgement and a temperament”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“will be a disaster”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Crooked”“total fraud!”“Crooked”“record is so bad, unable to answer tough questions!”“Crooked”“very bad and destructive track record”“unfit to be president”“poor leadership skills”“bad judgement”“Crooked”“Not honest!”“Reading poorly from the telepromter!”“Crooked”“Bad performance”“doesn't even look presidential!”“no longer has credibility”“too much failure in office”“Crooked”“Crooked”“Lyin'”“Crooked”“has made so many mistakes”“BAD judgement!”“Crooked”“zero natural talent”“Crooked”“decision making ability-zilch!”“temperament is bad”




    You think Trump saying Hillary is a crook with bad temperament or that Rubio has the worst voting record in the senate is on par with Hillary calling half of middle America deplorable and racists?
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    You think Trump saying Hillary is a crook with bad temperament or that Rubio has the worst voting record in the senate is on par with Hillary calling half of middle America deplorable and racists?
    I don't know, maybe if she'd said it 500 times it might have been a contest
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    I don't know, maybe if she'd said it 500 times it might have been a contest
    Trump mainly insults figures of the 'establishment' and media, while Hillary and her supporters directly insult middle America.
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    You say flatly that all Brexit voters are racist but I'm the prejudiced one?
    I agree with what you are saying generally. The left most certainly has a tendency to call people who disagree stupid, or racist or sexist etc.

    The one point I would make though is that does it not seem to be problem across the political spectrum? For example many on the right called those who voted remain 'traitors', the Daily Mail called the judges in the high court case 'enemies of the people'. The Daily Telegraph generally has the tone of 'if you vote labour or are left wing, you are just naive and don't know how the world works.'

    Just look how patronising and condescending this article is: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...the-left-bles/

    I agree that the left have a problem, but I don't think the right have clean hands either.
    We all genuinely need to respect each other's right to hold to different views without hurling insults.
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    Overall democracy works pretty well. Sure, it doesn't make much sense to allow people who aren't experienced in making huge decisions, but it allows people to have a say in what they believe in: the country feels like their own as they make an inpact on major decisions.
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    Non-indigenous kid using a Higher Education forum to call for an end to Democracy in the West. Guess that's 'progress'.. :dontknow:
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    at least until voters become better educated.
    By this you mean indoctrinated.
    My political education (if you want to know)
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    I've studied Ancient Greek history, Sparta, and Athens in particular, I've done an EPQ on Rome during the punic wars, I've studied the Augustan principate in great detail, and then all emperors up to Domitian in somewhat lesser detail.
    I got an a grade at as politics, and I'm predicted an a* at A2.

    I'm also going to study politics and IR at uni, my uni choices range from Exeter to Sussex. (Exeter, Bath, York, Nottingham, sussex)


    I supported Brexit, I supported Trump and I'm against globalisation. In your mind, that makes me uneducated, do you see my point?

    Democracy is what makes the west great, because no one can silence you at a polling both, and no one can judge you for what you think.
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    (Original post by balanced)
    By this you mean indoctrinated.
    My political education (if you want to know)
    Spoiler:
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    I've studied Ancient Greek history, Sparta, and Athens in particular, I've done an EPQ on Rome during the punic wars, I've studied the Augustan principate in great detail, and then all emperors up to Domitian in somewhat lesser detail.
    I got an a grade at as politics, and I'm predicted an a* at A2.

    I'm also going to study politics and IR at uni, my uni choices range from Exeter to Sussex. (Exeter, Bath, York, Nottingham, sussex)



    I supported Brexit, I supported Trump and I'm against globalisation. In your mind, that makes me uneducated, do you see my point?

    Democracy is what makes the west great, because no one can silence you at a polling both, and no one can judge you for what you think.
    I judge you for what you think.

    But do go on, what is the reason most college educated people voted against Brexit and against Trump, and vice versa with the uneducated?
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Non-indigenous kid using a Higher Education forum to call for an end to Democracy in the West. Guess that's 'progress'.. :dontknow:
    Many philosophers (eg Plato and Nietzsche ) supported that democracy is not the best political system.
    Don't be dogmatic about democracy. Sometimes it just doesn't work as it's supposed to .
    We want a political system that works .
    In my opinion this can be democracy ,but we can always challenge that .
    There is no universal truth ,we just want practical results.
    Please don't play the 'relativistic' card .
    Democracy in my opinion can be tyranny of majority : everyone has to follow what the majority wants , but the majority are not experts , they take decisions lightly without much thought , propaganda works perfectly fine to them , they choose based on emotion not rationality ...overall they're not well-educated.
    In my opinion experts (academics and researchers) should have more votes than the average voter .
    Consider this case : there is a referendum about whether evolution should be taught in school or whether we should fund scientific research or just give the money to farmers . In an absolute democracy evolution would be discarded as nonsense (get over it this referendum proved evolution wrong) , science and progress would cease .
    Perhaps you're against an absolute democracy but we still vote for a candidate who has answers to all of those questions. Ignoring them is an answer as well. In fact, in many cases they ignore STEM and progress ,environmental problems that have to be solved because what the average voter really cares about is how to stop ISIS from taking over the world . They won't care about a topic that only a minority is concerned about .
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    I do find ot, well shocking, that so many people seem to think the answer to lying, manipulative, corrupt politicians who collude with big business and media to engineer and massage what the populace can and cant know is to give those people MORE power...
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    (Original post by Cato the Elder)
    Oh you mean the electoral college? That works fine. The whole point of it is to stop densely-populated states like California having a disproportionate influence on the result of the election. Had it not been in place, Killary would have won.
    I don't feel we can say with certainty that Clinton would have won in a direct majority election because that would have changed everything
    The way the popular vote tallied up. with Hillary winning the majority, a reflected how the two candidates planned and executed their campaigns. Each candidate will focus on states where they are sure to capture the electoral vote, bypassing a state where, although they may control millions of votes, they may feel a majority of the popular vote cannot be gathered. In an election determined solely on a majority vote, Trump would have focused his resources differently,( spending more time in Calif. for example). Hillary would have done the same thing but her message was already known to all,( her numbers barely changed either way during the whole campaign except toward the end). Trump had a message of change and even Ca. voters wanted that and when he kept his foot out of his mouth his numbers always ticked up across the nation. I'm sure, given a little more time, Trump would have taken a majority of the vote pop. vote.
    Another reason the electoral college makes sense is that a forced recount in a country of almost 350 mil. would take too long and allegations of voter fraud could hold up an announcement of a winner for an indefinite period.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    I judge you for what you think.

    But do go on, what is the reason most college educated people voted against Brexit and against Trump, and vice versa with the uneducated?
    The college educated voted against Trump perhaps because his manner of speaking was not up to their standards and, as for the Brexit vote, It's been my experience that the highly educated don't like to rock the boat. Maybe it's because their, (presumed), success is found with the status quo and secure in it. I don't know.

    An advanced education may help solve a particular problem but I think it can be a hindrance for a politician. People who can form alliances between differing groups of people and have them work toward a common goal are born. Colleges or Universities can't produce them. They may come out of these institutions but their not produced by them.
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    (Original post by Vesniep)
    Don't be dogmatic about democracy
    Supporting a ban of a (relatively representative) political system, particularly arbitrarily e.g. in the absence of a popular mandate and simply as a knee-jerk to two democratic polls that have upset the establishment, is what is dogmatic. FYI, and on point of fact, my comments do not equate to an assertion that democracy may not be reformed or even replaced

    There is no universal truth ,we just want practical results
    You’re talking to a non-partisan pragmatic pluralist who has been calling for electoral reform and an end to stifling political correctness for quite some time now. Talk about preaching to the converted:mute:

    Democracy in my opinion can be tyranny of majority
    Correct, hence we almost voted to remain in the increasingly tyrannical EU

    the majority are not experts
    As most politicians would have it (on the record, anyway): “The public is always right”. I disagree with this statement, and concur with what you have opined when it comes to many (relatively complex/nuanced matters of policy). Hence, I advocate for The Fourth Way (a system of political bargaining centred around adopting positions of general consensus, in the context of open, inclusive, institutionally impartial pluralistic discourse)

    they choose based on emotion not rationality ... overall they're not well-educated
    The implication is qualified voting e.g. only males achieving a 2:1 or above (or ex-HE equivalent) are eligible to vote, which rather implies we are not all equal. Not sure that’s a road you really want to go down (see the defensible thesis below, FYR). Better, in my estimation, to work towards enlightened shared understanding

    Spoiler:
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    In my opinion experts (academics and researchers) should have more votes than the average voter
    Putting the ethical questions of equality, and equal representation, as well as the normative question of elitism, to one side, momentarily, there are individuals out there, such as myself, who may reasonably argue that they are ‘expert’ in certain fields for which they gain little or no (official) recognition or related accreditation

    Compared to the average masters or doctoral student of the social sciences, for example, I was arguably better placed to understand the intricacies/implications of a host of matters pertaining to the recent EUref, yet under your system their vote would eclipse mine. That is unacceptable

    It is for experts to use the tools available to us in order to better inform and educate the public, to use our insights to influence (responsibly), and to communicate our arguments convincingly, not to assume a position of (fairly arbitrary, not to mention arrogant) superiority and simply ostensibly dictate to the great unwashed!

    The EUref and US election are a timely reminder that the masses will not be dictated to by technocrats, the establishment, or any associated/allied experts and will, instead, rebel against concerted attempts by the elites to keep them caged e.g. in the skewed status quo

    In an absolute democracy evolution would be discarded as nonsense
    Not in this country. There is a reason we don’t have direct democracy, and a referendum a minute, however, and you have tapped into this here. Except on clear/major constitutional matters, I am not a believer in direct democracy at this juncture (although it is something to aspire to, and there may come a day when humanity is suitably prepared)

    Perhaps you're against an absolute democracy
    I am indeed; a blunt instrument if ever there was one!
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Your argument was not "the left is at fault for people voting Trump/Brexit, because it called those people racists".
    It may be more accurate to say," The Left TREATED us like we were racist and for years, if we wanted to keep our jobs, forced us to participate in some of the dumbest, sensitivity workshops, diversity training classes, etc. Led by, (I hesitate to use the word, "taught"), a 50's something throwback from the 1960's who knew that none of us believed what they were saying because 90% of it applied to some alternate reality but they were kind enough to provide us with a list of permissible words we were allowed to use if we should ever find ourselves in such a reality.

    When someones opinion is crammed down your throat in a mandatory attendance class you remember and resent it for a long time
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    So what you are saying is you are set in your backward thinking and attempts to show you what a more open way of life means, fail because you feel belittled because you despise this modern worldview?

    Not even talking about what that says about you, it also doesn't support the argument it was the lefts fault, you just admitted that you were never going to change your mind.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Non-indigenous kid using a Higher Education forum to call for an end to Democracy in the West. Guess that's 'progress'.. :dontknow:
    People who are thinking about banning democracy seriously have never thought about the other side of this form of government carefully enough.
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    I hear its all the rage in N Korea and such places. Infact, you wont hear a bad word said about it!
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    After first Brexit and now a Trump vote I am starting to go off democracy. Plato believed democracy was a terrible form of government and this latest result really proves his point about the stupidy of the average voter, showing why they shouldn't be trusted to make their own decisions. Instead I'd say a benevolent dictatorship led by someone like Tony Blair would be far better for the world, at least until voters become better educated.
    And how do you choose your benevolent dictator?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    And how do you choose your benevolent dictator?
    The traditional ways are biggest stick, or being democratically elected and forming a dictatorship and then by stick or appointment.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    After first Brexit and now a Trump vote I am starting to go off democracy. Plato believed democracy was a terrible form of government and this latest result really proves his point about the stupidy of the average voter, showing why they shouldn't be trusted to make their own decisions. Instead I'd say a benevolent dictatorship led by someone like Tony Blair would be far better for the world, at least until voters become better educated.
    I can't imagine you would want such a thing to be ratified by a democratic vote, it would be an oxymoron.

    Are you suggesting you would want an authoritarian regime to seize control of government by force rather than live in a democracy because you didn't get the outcome you wanted ?

    Would you ever consider moving to a dictatorship, if that is what you want, rather than wishing one of the few functional democracies that exist to perish?
 
 
 
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