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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Anti-Islamist = Anti-Muslims

    Muslims practice their faith 24/7. You can't turn it off whenever you feel like.
    not really, you can be anti hilter and his nazi propaganda machine without being anti german population. they were also sheep

    there is nothing in the quran that says hamas should fire rockets in order to prevent jews from governing palestine. perhaps you should read it.
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    (Original post by sevchenko)
    Italian's? :rofl2: The Italian language didn't even exist during classical antiquity.

    I don't understand why people still dispute Jewish Immigrants move to Palestine. What's done is done. The Jews will never leave EVER considering they've built a functioning state.

    If we want peace we need to move past this petty stupidity

    If the Italians rolled up and claimed London as their own because Rome once owned London i am sure it would cause problems.

    If you believe whats done is done, the why did the Zionists lay claim to a land which hadn't been in Jewish hands for 2000 years? It was because Zionism is a racist ideology which believes that land belongs to Jews simply because God gave it to them.

    But its not 'done' is it; because the Zionist entity continues to invade and colonise Palestinian lands. It continues to expand. Yet, you complain when people fight back?
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    More rockets found in another school

    The UNWRA condemned the use of one of its schools as a storage facility for rockets Tuesday after discovering a cache of projectiles for the second time since Operation Protective Edge began.

    "UNRWA strongly and unequivocally condemns the group or groups responsible for this flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law," the organization said in a statement.
    What a despicable terrorist entity.
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    (Original post by Pete_91)
    The problem is Israel really has no right to exist in the first place. We (the British) gave it to them due to political pressure/zionist terrorism (stern gang etc.) when we had absolutely no claim to it in the first place. The "British Mandate" is an oxymoron, we had none.

    Property is theft, as Proudhon said.
    By this very same logic no Arab state outside the Arabian Gulf has any right to exist since they are all the product of conquest and imperialism

    You are wrong anyway - the British with UN backing gave roughly have of the geographic piece of land to the Israelis and half to the Arabs, the Arabs didn't accept this and declared a war they subsequently lost.
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    More rockets found in yet another Gaza school

    The UNWRA condemned the use of one of its schools as a storage facility for rockets Tuesday after discovering a cache of projectiles for the second time since Operation Protective Edge began.

    "UNRWA strongly and unequivocally condemns the group or groups responsible for this flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law," the organization said in a statement.

    Freedom fighters :rolleyes:
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    More rockets found in yet another school in Gaza

    The UNWRA condemned the use of one of its schools as a storage facility for rockets Tuesday after discovering a cache of projectiles for the second time since Operation Protective Edge began.

    "UNRWA strongly and unequivocally condemns the group or groups responsible for this flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law," the organization said in a statement.
    Freedom fighters :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by 29Bilal96)
    Aww, must suck having to give up land

    Spoiler:
    Show
    When it isn't even yours. #freepalestine
    There has been no established state in the territory Israel currently occupies other than the two previous Jewish states that have existed in the area.

    Why does the concept of a Palestinian state only get brought up after Jordanian rule of West Bank ends?
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    Israeli sniper shooting at an unarmed civillian:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBak...ctr=1406057276 (full footage)




    I expect them to whitewash the whole incident in a few months, and blame the killing on invisible people, like they did when they shot a 12 year old Palestinian with his father:


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    (Original post by imtelling)
    If the Italians rolled up and claimed London as their own because Rome once owned London i am sure it would cause problems.

    If you believe whats done is done, the why did the Zionists lay claim to a land which hadn't been in Jewish hands for 2000 years? It was because Zionism is a racist ideology which believes that land belongs to Jews simply because God gave it to them.

    But its not 'done' is it; because the Zionist entity continues to invade and colonise Palestinian lands. It continues to expand. Yet, you complain when people fight back?
    The original Zionists were almost entirely not religious and did not claim Israel for religious reasons. In fact, many early Zionists supported the idea of establishing the State of Israel in what is no Uganda.

    Israel is barely expanding. No new settlements have been created since the mid 90s. True, existing settlements are being expanded but by and large this is being done in settlements that every sane person already knows will end up inside Israel. I'm not condoning it merely pointing out that there is very little to suggest that the "Zionist entity" (you can say Israel you know, you won't explode) is trying to expand ever more. This is especially true given that it has in the last 15 years pulled out of southern Lebanon and Gaza.

    Pulling back from land you already occupy is not the action of a country that desperately wants to keep expanding forever. If you cannot see this then your view on the world is broken.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    My point is a simple one which consists of XX steps. Please tell me which, if any, of those steps you disagree with.

    1) No sane person can think that Israel's crimes are more severe than those of Syria or Iraq both of which have deliberately murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians.
    2) The UN has passed far more resolutions about Israel than about either Syria or Iraq
    3) This indicates those UN resolutions have less to do with the level of severity of the crimes and more to do with the biases and agenda of the nations that make up the UN.
    I take issue with 3, because this discussion is about Israel's actions, not the UN. Just because Iraq and Syria have also done deplorable things, doesn't mean that the UN resolutions against Israel don't document deplorable things. You don't seem to think that the UN is lying in these resolutions, so doesn't that mean that Israel is acting reprehensibly?

    I understand the point you're making (i.e. the UN is being selective in its condemnation). I just think it's besides the point - that the condemnation is well-founded.
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    Zionists really are scum.
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    (Original post by Ben_Dover)
    A few other high profile Jews took the same stance as Einstein. But it was israel who started expanding its settlement. Look at the map from the 60s and compare it to today
    Prior to the 1960's, Israel's borders were what people agree Israel is with, no Gaza, no Golan and no West Bank. The Arabs initiated the Six Day War with repeated PLO attacks on Israel and Israel won, I don't see what you expect, Israel took the Sinai, the Golan, Gaza and the West Bank. Israel has since handed back both Gaza and the Sinai in full, for peace and recognition (which it hasn't exactly received). The Golan it's kept, although as far as I am aware, a great many Muslims living there are quietly pleased about this (it's better to live under an Israeli flag than get killed by Assad) leaving only really the West Bank.
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    (Original post by Dhibla)
    Wait, you're arguing that 100,000 people went to a protest in London last Saturday because they hate jews?
    Ok. This is how I explain such a phenomenon. People are simply not comfortable by a country which their government supports in THEIR NAME, is slaughtering innocents. For gods sake kids are dying and our country says NOTHING. Massacre is occurring and our foreign office calls it 'self defence' and blames the gazans for their own deaths. We expect better from Israel. We don't want our country supplying massacre. And it is massacre. The atrocities occurring are close to that of Vietnam when the vietcong were hiding in villages and so whole villages would be massacred. And people protested not because they hate their own soldiers but because it was being done in THEIR NAMES. This anti-semetic argument is getting tiresome.
    So then it really does matter who is doing the killing and its not for humanitarian reasons at all. It's not that the protestors care about people dying. They only care because Israel is killing them.

    And not only that, they only care that Israel is doing this because "we expect better". So in other words, you protest against Israel so strongly because it isn't that bad. If they just went on a complete rampage and murdered everyone in Gaza then they'd be really really bad - like Syria bad - and then you wouldn't bother protesting.

    I think that that's complete bull****. And you know it.
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    I think instead of just maintaining ceasefires, the Israelis should continue to use the Iron Dome to defend themselves and not actually retaliate. Surely they'd be looked on far more favourably/with more understanding if they defended by destroying Hamas missiles, instead of launching their own attacks which kill civilians?
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    I take issue with 3, because this discussion is about Israel's actions, not the UN. Just because Iraq and Syria have also done deplorable things, doesn't mean that the UN resolutions against Israel don't document deplorable things. You don't seem to think that the UN is lying in these resolutions, so doesn't that mean that Israel is acting reprehensibly?

    I understand the point you're making (i.e. the UN is being selective in its condemnation). I just think it's besides the point - that the condemnation is well-founded.
    Then we are talking entirely and completely at cross purposes. I only ever claimed that the number of resolutions against Israel says more about the UN than Israel. You now seem to agree (or at least understand) that point. I was never commenting on whether those resolutions are justified or not. I was only commenting on their number.

    The reason for only focusing on their number is because people frequently cite that number as proof that Israel is worse than other countries. I think we both agree that that argument is wrong and that the number of resolutions does not relate to the severity of the wrong-doings.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    I meant, given the fact that the Romans kicked them out in the first place, it is only fair that the Romans give them back their land or monetary compensation if they cannot do this, right?

    The Roman Empire no longer exists, so they cannot give them back their land or monetary compensation.

    Unfortunately, that figure is going up (atheists) instead of coming down...
    Again, that can change.


    There are promises which go unfulfilled every day. Why should humans effect what God has promised?
    God waits for the His perfect time to fulfill promises He makes. Humans don't affect God fulfilling His promises. He fulfills His promises despite the majority of people not believing in them.

    If God has promised, he should deliver. Humans cannot deliver God's promises.
    Agreed.


    Wait! Were the Arabs "anti-Jewish" or just anti-immigration?
    Anti-Jewish immigration. Were they against other Arabs immigrating?


    I don't believe there was a State of Israel during the time of King Cyrus the Great...
    King Cyrus the Great allowed Jews to go back to rebuild Jerusalem, but it took a lot of time. The second regeneration of Israel (1948) happened much faster.

    So for one descendent of Caaninte, you would give 1/3rd?

    What land would this be? Arable or desert?

    Who would the land come from? Israeli or Palestinian?
    It would be ideal for the Arab, Jewish, and Caananite peoples to work together to divide the land into 3 parts, and to not kill each other but rather bless each other.


    It's a hypothetical and you must hold an opinion.
    I don't hold an opinion on that.

    Do you hold an opinion the following hypothetical situation?

    What if Arabia were destroyed, along with Mecca and Medina? The surviving Arab people then fled to European countries and settled. Later on, the Jewish people came and settled in what was once Arab lands (Arabia). Then, when the descendants of the Arabs had been persecuted in European lands, they immigrated in mass back to Arabia. Should the Jewish people living there (this is hypothetical) fight the descendants of the Arabs who are migrating back to the land of their forefathers?

    By the way, did the Arabs expel the Christians and Jews from Arabia after Muhammad died. If so, why?

    Why would you want to "put a limit" on immigration if the previous immigrants started reproducing?
    As a woman who married an immigrant from South America, I personally don't want to put a limit. It'd be a wise idea, but it's not something I would want to do.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    So then it really does matter who is doing the killing and its not for humanitarian reasons at all. It's not that the protestors care about people dying. They only care because Israel is killing them.

    And not only that, they only care that Israel is doing this because "we expect better". So in other words, you protest against Israel so strongly because it isn't that bad. If they just went on a complete rampage and murdered everyone in Gaza then they'd be really really bad - like Syria bad - and then you wouldn't bother protesting.

    I think that that's complete bull****. And you know it.
    The thing is it IS about who's doing the killing. The protests are about delegitimising the deaths of those people and demanding coverage. Israel is a state which is considered 'good' as it has no sanctions on it, gets regular funding from our governments and is diplomatically friendly with western powers. We thus expect they don't massacre people, and if they do we expect our governments to cut ties with them economically until it stops. That is what the protests are about. They are 100% about who's doing it and how our governments can stop it by taking Israel's power away from them. But because it's about Israel doesn't mean it's about the Jewish race. My argument isn't bull****. It is rational. You are making stupid assumptions and that is bull****
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    (Original post by PerArduaAdAstra)
    I think instead of just maintaining ceasefires, the Israelis should continue to use the Iron Dome to defend themselves and not actually retaliate. Surely they'd be looked on far more favourably/with more understanding if they defended by destroying Hamas missiles, instead of launching their own attacks which kill civilians?
    Yes, because popularity amongst European chattering classes is the priority :rolleyes:

    Iron Dome cannot be 100% effective. People still need to run multiple times per day into shelters. Kids can't go to school, businesses can't operate properly.

    And there's a principle of self defence which all nations would undertake.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    In a war, you attack military bases and soldiers.
    I agree. So why not condemn Hamas for targeting exclusively civilians, other than when the IDF is finally provoked into invading?

    So Israel has been disproportionate?
    I am not in a position to judge whether or not that is the case, because I am not the one trying to defeat Hamas. What I do know is that given the superior weaponry that Israel possesses, its objective cannot be the murder of civilians, because if it were, it would have been much more successful at it than it has been.

    And after they get that, they will start attacking America. Once they get that, they will want the world. And once they get that, they will want another planet. And once they get that, they will want the solar system....
    If Israel appeases Hamas, the war will not end. They tried appeasing it in 2005, and the war did not end or even become any less violent.

    So you agree that Israel is displaying "unimaginable restraint" as per the comments of this man?
    Not necessarily. I am pointing out that one side targets civilians, while the other tries not to hit civilians.

    It wasn't a he, it was a she. Why did you assume it was a "he"?
    I didn't assume it was a he. It's just that in English and many other languages, the default is "he" until you know the sex.

    Anyway, shame on that MP. She should not be allowed in the Knesset with such views. But remember, the Jewish Home party is a fringe party. Hamas is the governing party of the Gaza strip. So it is a false comparison.

    The end result is the same. There is no state. How are the Charters of HAMAS and Likud any different?
    Hamas call for the creation of an Islamic totalitarian state and the destruction of the liberal democratic Jewish state. Likud call for the prevention of the creation of a Palestinian state. There is no comparison.

    It's transliterated.
    Whatever, it's a moot point.
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Then we are talking entirely and completely at cross purposes. I only ever claimed that the number of resolutions against Israel says more about the UN than Israel. You now seem to agree (or at least understand) that point. I was never commenting on whether those resolutions are justified or not. I was only commenting on their number.

    The reason for only focusing on their number is because people frequently cite that number as proof that Israel is worse than other countries. I think we both agree that that argument is wrong and that the number of resolutions does not relate to the severity of the wrong-doings.
    Ah, okay. Yes, I was just saying that Israel is bad, not that it's worse. I can't comment on whether it's worse.
 
 
 
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