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    (Original post by adamlaw)
    Hello everyone.

    I've received an unconditional offer from KCL Law and will be starting my academic year in 2011 Anyone else here also doing the same course in the same year?

    Also, for you UK Law school applicants, has anyone got an offer from SMU Law but subsequently rejected it to go to the UK? Personally, I'm still at a juncture where I can't fully decide whether to stay in Singapore for SMU or head to London for King's.

    Some advise from anyone who can spare any, will be appreciated. Thanks
    Are there strong factors for you to stay? for example gf, commitments, family etc?

    if not i will advise you to go king's for many reasons. one, the chance to study in a different educaion system is priceless. smu is a rat race and cutthroat. i have many frens in smu law and the workload is crazy. conversely, in the UK, pace of life is much slower. exams arent counted in first year, and they have far less weighted tutorials or test as most of marks are counted in finals. in smu, or in singapore in general, its non stop test, tutorials, presentaitons etc and most imortantly, king's has a top law faculty and great international reputation, while smu is a new school and relatively untested. and also, the percentage of 2nd uppers and above > 80%, whilst in SMU the percent of people who get honours (*** laude and above) is pathetic. i dono why but in singapore the uni systems are incredibly stingy with honours, but in the uk they give out good honours like no one's business.

    so the chance to study in london, in a diff edu system, to study in world class uni, with top faculty and great repu, the chance to get 2nd uppers or better, the chance to smell the rose and travel around europe, meet peopl across the world, the chance to not get crushed by teh stressful sg system, why not??????
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    (Original post by adamlaw)
    Hello everyone.

    I've received an unconditional offer from KCL Law and will be starting my academic year in 2011 Anyone else here also doing the same course in the same year?

    Also, for you UK Law school applicants, has anyone got an offer from SMU Law but subsequently rejected it to go to the UK? Personally, I'm still at a juncture where I can't fully decide whether to stay in Singapore for SMU or head to London for King's.

    Some advise from anyone who can spare any, will be appreciated. Thanks
    heyyo adamlaw.

    well same course but different year, so you should turn out to be my junior..

    yep, me. i got an offer from SMU Law, but definitely not heading there after i got my KCL law offer. i think it just depends on your financial circumstances and if your financial circumstances are fine, then the next thing should factor in is whether you want to stay local or attempt overseas and try and seek overseas employment and such?

    and i have a classmate who studied in smu law for the 1st year, then she quit and headed over to UCL law this year, she mentioned something about workload and environment of SMU. although the reason she gave was quite vague when i asked.

    for my case, i told myself after i applied for UCAS that if i get an offer from LSE or KCL, then im definitely heading overseas. but if its offers from my other 3 options only, then i have to give a serious consideration.. so yeah when my KCL offer came in, it wasnt much of a dilemma for me.

    oh and sorry for this late remark after the chunk above, but congrats on your unconditional for KCL law, and hope you join me in 2011 then!
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    (Original post by gi.)
    heyyo adamlaw.

    well same course but different year, so you should turn out to be my junior..

    yep, me. i got an offer from SMU Law, but definitely not heading there after i got my KCL law offer. i think it just depends on your financial circumstances and if your financial circumstances are fine, then the next thing should factor in is whether you want to stay local or attempt overseas and try and seek overseas employment and such?

    and i have a classmate who studied in smu law for the 1st year, then she quit and headed over to UCL law this year, she mentioned something about workload and environment of SMU. although the reason she gave was quite vague when i asked.

    for my case, i told myself after i applied for UCAS that if i get an offer from LSE or KCL, then im definitely heading overseas. but if its offers from my other 3 options only, then i have to give a serious consideration.. so yeah when my KCL offer came in, it wasnt much of a dilemma for me.

    oh and sorry for this late remark after the chunk above, but congrats on your unconditional for KCL law, and hope you join me in 2011 then!
    maybe i should emphasize on this. workload and environment, whats so bad about it in smu, or in sg? everything. sg education system is v cutthroat and gpa-oriented. everyone is mugging their ass off and the system constantly throws you endless projects, test, tutorials ,assignments, presentations, so much so that theres no much space and time for real academic learning, esp so in smu. presentations and projects take up 50% of their overall grade. honours are also very selective (<20% graduate with a *** laude and above). conversely in UK you have more than 80% in King's getting 2nd upper or above.

    the main prob is the education system. i will advise u, if financial is not a concern, get your ass to kcl. you wil not regret it. in uk there are no bell curve. ur perforance is judged on its own merits and not against the cohort's performance. u can have 10 students and 10 first classes if everyone is brilliant, but in sg, u can't. there must be a curve, a distinction.

    rmb also that kcl is reputable, top law school in uk with great students and faculty. u will nt go wrong trust me
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    (Original post by yonanz)
    maybe i should emphasize on this. workload and environment, whats so bad about it in smu, or in sg? everything.
    Wow. you're quite against the Singaporean education system. Were you in a local JC, btw?

    Anyway, I personally feel that the courses themselves in Singapore are probably good. Esp NUS law which is reputed and has good students etc. The reason I'm really hoping to go abroad next year is because of the environment. I do not want four more years of JC-like competitiveness where grades inevitably dominate my mind to some extent or another most of the time.

    That being said, is there any uni in UK that tends to lower its offers for intl/ singaporean students (seeing as how are A levels are arguably a tone harder).
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    (Original post by chronicles)
    Wow. you're quite against the Singaporean education system. Were you in a local JC, btw?

    Anyway, I personally feel that the courses themselves in Singapore are probably good. Esp NUS law which is reputed and has good students etc. The reason I'm really hoping to go abroad next year is because of the environment. I do not want four more years of JC-like competitiveness where grades inevitably dominate my mind to some extent or another most of the time.

    That being said, is there any uni in UK that tends to lower its offers for intl/ singaporean students (seeing as how are A levels are arguably a tone harder).
    of course, i was from a local jc. true blue born and bred sg student.

    if u mean good in teh sense that theres good facilities...teachers..ok fair enough. but the problem is not in the facilities or the teachers, but more in the system. my friend spent almost every other day in smu rushin projects, preparing for presentations, or mugging till there's no tmr. and its not enuff. cuz every singaporean students are doing it. he work so hard, gpa come out only 3.1. its the system's fault, its the mugging culture.

    so i will still advise u, u want a diff learning environment, one that is not so competitive or cutthroat, get the toot out of here and go to kcl. it will be the best decision u ever make.
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    Thanks for the replies!

    Well, the only reason why I'm considering SMU is the fact that tuition fees in Singapore are way, wayyy cheaper compared to the likes of any UK university when enrolled as an international student. It doesn't help that I'm heading to London. Though not in a situation where finance is going to be any problem, all I'm asking myself is whether all the hypes and advantages of pursuing a London legal education is worth the incredibly large amount of money my parents will have to pay. Forgive me if I'm being extremely Singaporean, but paying less for a more rigorous curriculum, is one factor that has caused me to think whether I should stay. There's also the overheated puffery about how the government's gonna be investing alot in the new Law School just so it would not be seen as 2nd rated, but rather a different institution where an alternative form of legal education can be pursued.

    But putting aside the finance factor, KCL seems to be the place to be. I am not so much a corporate-or-commercial-law kinda guy, knowing for a fact that the bread-&-butter fields of law such as Matrimonial, Family, Medical Negligence/Defamation and Criminal, are the areas Im very interested in and wish to pursue. And because KCL offers these as part of their law options, naturally, I would want to be able to study these during my time at KCL in future. And also as mentioned, the prestige that comes with a good degree from KCL Law would undoubtedly help me in clinching a job in any respectable law firm for employment or a university, for further studies.

    All in all, I guess whether the guilt factor - having my parents to pay so much for a mere 3 years in London, is worth dismissing? Or because its corporate-and-commercial-law-oriented curriculum is so lucrative and subscribed to, I should just follow on to SMU... at a lower cost?

    Gosh, help. Haha.
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    (Original post by adamlaw)
    Thanks for the replies!

    Well, the only reason why I'm considering SMU is the fact that tuition fees in Singapore are way, wayyy cheaper compared to the likes of any UK university when enrolled as an international student. It doesn't help that I'm heading to London. Though not in a situation where finance is going to be any problem, all I'm asking myself is whether all the hypes and advantages of pursuing a London legal education is worth the incredibly large amount of money my parents will have to pay. Forgive me if I'm being extremely Singaporean, but paying less for a more rigorous curriculum, is one factor that has caused me to think whether I should stay. There's also the overheated puffery about how the government's gonna be investing alot in the new Law School just so it would not be seen as 2nd rated, but rather a different institution where an alternative form of legal education can be pursued.

    But putting aside the finance factor, KCL seems to be the place to be. I am not so much a corporate-or-commercial-law kinda guy, knowing for a fact that the bread-&-butter fields of law such as Matrimonial, Family, Medical Negligence/Defamation and Criminal, are the areas Im very interested in and wish to pursue. And because KCL offers these as part of their law options, naturally, I would want to be able to study these during my time at KCL in future. And also as mentioned, the prestige that comes with a good degree from KCL Law would undoubtedly help me in clinching a job in any respectable law firm for employment or a university, for further studies.

    All in all, I guess whether the guilt factor - having my parents to pay so much for a mere 3 years in London, is worth dismissing? Or because its corporate-and-commercial-law-oriented curriculum is so lucrative and subscribed to, I should just follow on to SMU... at a lower cost?

    Gosh, help. Haha.
    u ask me 10 times, im still gonna say the same thing, go KCL.

    SMU is new, and KCL has over 100 years of history. it has great reputation and great standing amongst magic circle firms in London. A KCL degree will serve you well not only in Singapore (many top lcoal firms have KCL grads) but you have the chance to use it as a ticket to work in top international firms in UK or even Europe. i will not do any smu bashing here. smu is good i honestly think so, but here's the problem. are u willing to survive through another 4 years of rat race? rushing through presentations, projects, mugging till 12 am, fighting for airtime in classrooms etc or do u foresee yourself in london, tavelling around with friends in easter, xmas and summer break, studying only for exams and not having to mug in the singaporean sense.

    for me thats the main grips i have. the singaporean system is too competitive. In UK the number of good honours regularly exceeds 60% for every uni...in singapore the number of first class and 2nd uppers is pathetic. why? because we mark using the bell curve, but in the UK, theres no bell curve. even if everyone in your course is smart, you can still get 1st class, because you are marked based on your own performance, not vis-a-vis other people.

    its your call. for me, i would go to kcl in a heartbeat.
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    (Original post by adamlaw)
    Thanks for the replies!

    Well, the only reason why I'm considering SMU is the fact that tuition fees in Singapore are way, wayyy cheaper compared to the likes of any UK university when enrolled as an international student. It doesn't help that I'm heading to London. Though not in a situation where finance is going to be any problem, all I'm asking myself is whether all the hypes and advantages of pursuing a London legal education is worth the incredibly large amount of money my parents will have to pay. Forgive me if I'm being extremely Singaporean, but paying less for a more rigorous curriculum, is one factor that has caused me to think whether I should stay. There's also the overheated puffery about how the government's gonna be investing alot in the new Law School just so it would not be seen as 2nd rated, but rather a different institution where an alternative form of legal education can be pursued.

    But putting aside the finance factor, KCL seems to be the place to be. I am not so much a corporate-or-commercial-law kinda guy, knowing for a fact that the bread-&-butter fields of law such as Matrimonial, Family, Medical Negligence/Defamation and Criminal, are the areas Im very interested in and wish to pursue. And because KCL offers these as part of their law options, naturally, I would want to be able to study these during my time at KCL in future. And also as mentioned, the prestige that comes with a good degree from KCL Law would undoubtedly help me in clinching a job in any respectable law firm for employment or a university, for further studies.

    All in all, I guess whether the guilt factor - having my parents to pay so much for a mere 3 years in London, is worth dismissing? Or because its corporate-and-commercial-law-oriented curriculum is so lucrative and subscribed to, I should just follow on to SMU... at a lower cost?

    Gosh, help. Haha.
    if your parents can pay for it, as in they are comfortable with paying for the overseas school fees without drastically dropping into poverty level (yes i know i am exaggerating but you get the drift). i think you should go KCL.

    i was at that stage of guilt as well, like contemplating.. 'hell its still a LLB, whether i go KCL or SMU.' but its not, its the whole experience and like what yonanz has been emphasizing, the culture. just head to KCL man. like what my parents said about the guilt, just think of your KCL fees as a sort of long term investment, the returns from the investment will be shown years after graduation and after years of employment.
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    (Original post by chronicles)
    That being said, is there any uni in UK that tends to lower its offers for intl/ singaporean students (seeing as how are A levels are arguably a tone harder).
    i have heard of requirements being lower for international students, but ... not because A levels are comparatively harder but well.. we as international students do generate a lot more revenue for the universities with our astronomical fees. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by adamlaw)
    Thanks for the replies!

    Well, the only reason why I'm considering SMU is the fact that tuition fees in Singapore are way, wayyy cheaper compared to the likes of any UK university when enrolled as an international student. It doesn't help that I'm heading to London. Though not in a situation where finance is going to be any problem, all I'm asking myself is whether all the hypes and advantages of pursuing a London legal education is worth the incredibly large amount of money my parents will have to pay. Forgive me if I'm being extremely Singaporean, but paying less for a more rigorous curriculum, is one factor that has caused me to think whether I should stay. There's also the overheated puffery about how the government's gonna be investing alot in the new Law School just so it would not be seen as 2nd rated, but rather a different institution where an alternative form of legal education can be pursued.

    But putting aside the finance factor, KCL seems to be the place to be. I am not so much a corporate-or-commercial-law kinda guy, knowing for a fact that the bread-&-butter fields of law such as Matrimonial, Family, Medical Negligence/Defamation and Criminal, are the areas Im very interested in and wish to pursue. And because KCL offers these as part of their law options, naturally, I would want to be able to study these during my time at KCL in future. And also as mentioned, the prestige that comes with a good degree from KCL Law would undoubtedly help me in clinching a job in any respectable law firm for employment or a university, for further studies.

    All in all, I guess whether the guilt factor - having my parents to pay so much for a mere 3 years in London, is worth dismissing? Or because its corporate-and-commercial-law-oriented curriculum is so lucrative and subscribed to, I should just follow on to SMU... at a lower cost?

    Gosh, help. Haha.
    Haha, the usual local vs overseas quagmire. Hmm, don't really have the luxury of time to type plentiful now, but I would like to make an addition to the point in bold. At undergraduate level, I think it's less the rigorous and heavy workload that will sharpen your intellectual ability that you seek to take away than the power connections and networking that will aid you for the rest of your life.

    Of course, it goes without saying that the whole idea of an undergraduate education is to pursue greater dept of knowledge; I'm saying the above statement based on the predicament you are currently in. If you ask me, KCL definitely. haha!
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    Hey guys, I'm kind of deviating from the thread, but this question suddenly prompted me to post on this thread and see the opinions of u guys. What does it mean to study smart and not hard? Ppl always quote 'study smart' as what smart students do but what does it really mean? Is it just about time management? Pls give me yr opinions
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    (Original post by terence)
    Hey guys, I'm kind of deviating from the thread, but this question suddenly prompted me to post on this thread and see the opinions of u guys. What does it mean to study smart and not hard? Ppl always quote 'study smart' as what smart students do but what does it really mean? Is it just about time management? Pls give me yr opinions
    Haha don't think I'm 'qualified' enough to weigh in on this. I got mine through sheer hard work. Sacrificed much in the process, but am glad to gain more in return.
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    (Original post by yonanz)
    maybe i should emphasize on this. workload and environment, whats so bad about it in smu, or in sg? everything. sg education system is v cutthroat and gpa-oriented. everyone is mugging their ass off and the system constantly throws you endless projects, test, tutorials ,assignments, presentations, so much so that theres no much space and time for real academic learning, esp so in smu. presentations and projects take up 50% of their overall grade. honours are also very selective (<20% graduate with a *** laude and above). conversely in UK you have more than 80% in King's getting 2nd upper or above.

    the main prob is the education system. i will advise u, if financial is not a concern, get your ass to kcl. you wil not regret it. in uk there are no bell curve. ur perforance is judged on its own merits and not against the cohort's performance. u can have 10 students and 10 first classes if everyone is brilliant, but in sg, u can't. there must be a curve, a distinction.

    rmb also that kcl is reputable, top law school in uk with great students and faculty. u will nt go wrong trust me
    On the other hand, in Singapore, its really hard to fail. You have to consider that in the UK, failure rates of around 20% (or so I heard) in courses are not unheard of, whereas if you are lackluster in Singapore, you will still pass as long as you don't do too badly.

    Secondly, when I was at NUS for awhile, the people in the course I was doing weren't particularly interested in what they were studying; they were just there for the sake of being there.

    What I meant to say that while your point about the bell curve is partly true, you also have to take into account the fact that it means if you're seriously unmotivated, its also hard to fail. For example, in NUS law, only 5% will get a first class, but a large majority are guaranteed a second honors regardless of how badly or well they do because there's a quota. I know of people who already have given up, or settled for a second honours- meaning that they don't choose to expend all their energy studying because they don't think they'll be in the top 5% and get a first.
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    (Original post by Lifeisnice)
    On the other hand, in Singapore, its really hard to fail. You have to consider that in the UK, failure rates of around 20% (or so I heard) in courses are not unheard of, whereas if you are lackluster in Singapore, you will still pass as long as you don't do too badly.

    Secondly, when I was at NUS for awhile, the people in the course I was doing weren't particularly interested in what they were studying; they were just there for the sake of being there.

    What I meant to say that while your point about the bell curve is partly true, you also have to take into account the fact that it means if you're seriously unmotivated, its also hard to fail. For example, in NUS law, only 5% will get a first class, but a large majority are guaranteed a second honors regardless of how badly or well they do because there's a quota. I know of people who already have given up, or settled for a second honours- meaning that they don't choose to expend all their energy studying because they don't think they'll be in the top 5% and get a first.
    not true regarding the high failure rate in UK. i can cite a whole lot of statisitcs but just a simple glance over nottingham, manchester, birmingham, kcl,lse,ucl reveals that > 95% graduates with 2nd class and above. Only a tiny fraction graduate with 3rd class/without honours.

    i agree that in sg its easy to graduate with a pass degree, but we want to compare how easy it is to get good honours, not how easy it is to pass. this is the advantage i propose that UK unis have over local unis - examination based on individual performance rather than the bell curve.i have a classmate who had 4As in A levels and 2 distinctions in S paper (the old format, not H3) and he is now in the 2nd uppers CAP range in mathematics NUS. Why? Because of the bell curve and the domination of the supersmart PRCs. I dare say if he had gone to any of the UK unis he would be enroute to a comfortable first.
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    (Original post by yonanz)
    not true regarding the high failure rate in UK. i can cite a whole lot of statisitcs but just a simple glance over nottingham, manchester, birmingham, kcl,lse,ucl reveals that > 95% graduates with 2nd class and above. Only a tiny fraction graduate with 3rd class/without honours.

    i agree that in sg its easy to graduate with a pass degree, but we want to compare how easy it is to get good honours, not how easy it is to pass. this is the advantage i propose that UK unis have over local unis - examination based on individual performance rather than the bell curve.i have a classmate who had 4As in A levels and 2 distinctions in S paper (the old format, not H3) and he is now in the 2nd uppers CAP range in mathematics NUS. Why? Because of the bell curve and the domination of the supersmart PRCs. I dare say if he had gone to any of the UK unis he would be enroute to a comfortable first.
    Urm, those 20% who failed in the first year would have to resit their exams, and if they don't pass them, they'll be forced to drop out; the statistics you are alluding to, such as those available in unistats, are only for people who graduate in their 3rd year; those who fail have already been weeded out of the 'system'.

    Secondly, the point was to clarify your comment that 'everyone is mugging their ass off' which is patently untrue, especially in NUS. Meaning to say, that in certain courses, its really not that difficult to get a first, depending on who your coursemates are... If you choose a course where your coursemates are good, well, that's just too bad.

    A quick search of unistats will find that some courses have > 5% drop out rate in the first year, which is absolutely unheard of in Singapore.

    With regard to your friend, it is highly regrettable. Did your friend have a 2 year gap between university? If so, that might explain his predicament, since maths at university is very unforgiving on those who have taken gap years...
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    You know, I'm averaging a mid-first in Mathematics despite taking a *cough* 2 year gap between universities. It's all about rigorous thinking and practice!
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    (Original post by Narev)
    You know, I'm averaging a mid-first in Mathematics despite taking a *cough* 2 year gap between universities. It's all about rigorous thinking and practice!
    Well, that's definitely commendable
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    (Original post by Narev)
    You know, I'm averaging a mid-first in Mathematics despite taking a *cough* 2 year gap between universities. It's all about rigorous thinking and practice!
    Oh, congrats. NUS?
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    (Original post by Lifeisnice)
    Urm, those 20% who failed in the first year would have to resit their exams, and if they don't pass them, they'll be forced to drop out; the statistics you are alluding to, such as those available in unistats, are only for people who graduate in their 3rd year; those who fail have already been weeded out of the 'system'.

    Secondly, the point was to clarify your comment that 'everyone is mugging their ass off' which is patently untrue, especially in NUS. Meaning to say, that in certain courses, its really not that difficult to get a first, depending on who your coursemates are... If you choose a course where your coursemates are good, well, that's just too bad.

    A quick search of unistats will find that some courses have > 5% drop out rate in the first year, which is absolutely unheard of in Singapore.

    With regard to your friend, it is highly regrettable. Did your friend have a 2 year gap between university? If so, that might explain his predicament, since maths at university is very unforgiving on those who have taken gap years...
    i appreciate some of the points you have provided. when i said that 'everyone is mugging their ass off", I Dont mean it everyone in the literal sense. I meant to use this phrase as a general description of the singaporean mugger-***-GPA/CAP-centered culture.

    yes, my fren did NS. but he says its cuz of the stiff competition from the PRCs...who are smart and also trained to do pure mathematics (proving theorems) while we sgreans are trained to solve questions rather than to prove. we all know how smarts and chiongster these PRCs are lar, how to compete...
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    Nope, studying overseas at Warwick. Though, I do agree with your point about the bell curve. Otherwise, I'd probably be getting a 2:1 instead. However, I wouldn't find maths at University that unforgiving about those who have taken a two year break, because you'll either

    a) Be eased in gently into A level stuff covered before (considering other students haven't gone through the Singaporean A levels), and have a few months to work up to A level standard
    b) Cover something totally new and abstract such that A levels doesn't help anymore
    c) Find that proving questions becomes easier than before (ever tried to explain something to your superior in some super easy laymen's term such that he finally understands? It's the same with mathematics)
 
 
 
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