The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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RayApparently
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#1641
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#1641
(Original post by Aph)
It needs members from 3 parties to support the move. It won't happen.
Does it?
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Aph
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#1642
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#1642
(Original post by mobbsy91)
Oh wow - I didn't know that...
Ell now you do, so no VoNC will happen.
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Aph
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#1643
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#1643
(Original post by RayApparently)
Does it?
Yeah, pretty sure it does.
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Tanqueray91
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#1644
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#1644
(Original post by Aph)
Yeah, pretty sure it does.
Doesn't say anything here about it needing other parties... just an MP to start, and an MP to second - unless I'm being stupid...

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Aph
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#1645
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#1645
(Original post by mobbsy91)
Doesn't say anything here about it needing other parties... just an MP to start, and an MP to second - unless I'm being stupid...

Yes, I just saw that weird, we need to get that changed, it should at least need cross-party support.
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Tanqueray91
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#1646
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#1646
(Original post by Aph)
Yes, I just saw that weird, we need to get that changed, it should at least need cross-party support.
Is that because that's what it ideally should be, or because that's what should actually happen though...?
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Aph
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#1647
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#1647
(Original post by mobbsy91)
Is that because that's what it ideally should be, or because that's what should actually happen though...?
GD is just that, guidence. So in theory the speaker can add extra stipulations if he so wished.
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username456717
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#1648
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#1648
(Original post by Aph)
Yes, I just saw that weird, we need to get that changed, it should at least need cross-party support.
Ah fantastic!

Looks like the VONC lives!
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Aph
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#1649
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#1649
(Original post by nebelbon)
Ah fantastic!

Looks like the VONC lives!
But it'll get shot down, And if I amend first...
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Tanqueray91
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#1650
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#1650
(Original post by Aph)
GD is just that, guidence. So in theory the speaker can add extra stipulations if he so wished.
I have no wish for such VoNC to come about, however, it is not right that an MP is denied the right to call a VoNC if the guidance allows them to, and for Birch to add extra stipulations at this point would be un-speaker like. The VoNC will in no way work, but lets at the same time, not play 'dirty'...

(Original post by nebelbon)
Ah fantastic!

Looks like the VONC lives!
Why? VoNC adam who has let down your entire party...
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Aph
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#1651
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#1651
(Original post by mobbsy91)
I have no wish for such VoNC to come about, however, it is not right that an MP is denied the right to call a VoNC if the guidance allows them to, and for Birch to add extra stipulations at this point would be un-speaker like. The VoNC will in no way work, but lets at the same time play 'dirty'...


Why? VoNC adam who has let down your entire party...
Aye, but would you second an amendment which can stop the VoNC dead in it's tracks?
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username456717
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#1652
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#1652
(Original post by Aph)
But it'll get shot down, And if I amend first...
I know it won't pass and i don't intend for it to.

If Birch allowed that to happen then it is another reason for a VONC because he is interrupting the democratic process.

After my VONC, and hopefully if i am allowed to do some bills, i'd happily support and amendment to make it harder to VONC as 2 people is ridiculously low.
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username456717
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#1653
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#1653
(Original post by mobbsy91)
I have no wish for such VoNC to come about, however, it is not right that an MP is denied the right to call a VoNC if the guidance allows them to, and for Birch to add extra stipulations at this point would be un-speaker like. The VoNC will in no way work, but lets at the same time, not play 'dirty'...


Why? VoNC adam who has let down your entire party...
I don't care. I like adam and i won't vonc him.
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Aph
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#1654
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#1654
(Original post by nebelbon)
I don't care. I like adam and i won't vonc him.
So this VoNC is personal not professional?
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Tanqueray91
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#1655
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#1655
(Original post by Aph)
Aye, but would you second an amendment which can stop the VoNC dead in it's tracks?
It depends - whilst a VoNC shouldn't be so easy for a single party to be able to launch against the Speaker, I don't think it should be so hard in case so unfair rulings have gone on.

If I were to second one, it would have to say this:
A VoNC must be seconded by three MPs, from at least two different parties.

(Original post by nebelbon)
I don't care. I like adam and i won't vonc him.
Yeh, so you're only VoNCing Birch because you don't like him... whereas adam has done more wrong, but as you like him you won't VoNC - getting a bit personal here...
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username456717
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#1656
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#1656
(Original post by Aph)
So this VoNC is personal not professional?
This VoNC against Birch is making the point that his punishment was harsh and shouldn't apply to all members; it isn't personal. I don't know Birch as a person.
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Tanqueray91
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#1657
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#1657
(Original post by nebelbon)
This VoNC against Birch is making the point that his punishment was harsh and shouldn't apply to all members; it isn't personal. I don't know Birch as a person.
It's a shame I can't VoNC adam then, because I think that what he did as party leader is harsh...
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username456717
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#1658
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#1658
(Original post by mobbsy91)
It depends - whilst a VoNC shouldn't be so easy for a single party to be able to launch against the Speaker, I don't think it should be so hard in case so unfair rulings have gone on.

If I were to second one, it would have to say this:
A VoNC must be seconded by three MPs, from at least two different parties.



Yeh, so you're only VoNCing Birch because you don't like him... whereas adam has done more wrong, but as you like him you won't VoNC - getting a bit personal here...
Not at all. I believe Birch has made a major error so i will VoNC him; that is not personal.

I won't VoNC adam because i like him and he has done many more good things than bad and this does not warrant a VoNC; this is partially personal.

As i said to Aph i don't know Birch as a person so it is unfair to say i don't like him. I was completely fine with him as Speaker until the Birkenhead incident and this. I don't think he is fit to be Speaker, however i'm sure he is a lovely chap.
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Aph
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#1659
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#1659
(Original post by mobbsy91)
It depends - whilst a VoNC shouldn't be so easy for a single party to be able to launch against the Speaker, I don't think it should be so hard in case so unfair rulings have gone on.

If I were to second one, it would have to say this:
A VoNC must be seconded by three MPs, from at least two different parties.



Yeh, so you're only VoNCing Birch because you don't like him... whereas adam has done more wrong, but as you like him you won't VoNC - getting a bit personal here...
I'd want 5 MP's from 3 parties... Just because like that it's harder to amend the GD then call a VoNC.

exactly UKIP are only ever personal.
(Original post by nebelbon)
This VoNC against Birch is making the point that his punishment was harsh and shouldn't apply to all members; it isn't personal. I don't know Birch as a person.
then you should VoNC Adam for failing to protect you and submitting it as a party motion.
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Tanqueray91
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#1660
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#1660
(Original post by Aph)
I'd want 5 MP's from 3 parties... Just because like that it's harder to amend the GD then call a VoNC.

exactly UKIP are only ever personal.
then you should VoNC Adam for failing to protect you and submitting it as a party motion.
I wouldn't second, so obviously would Nay that amendment - I think there can be circumstances where having too many MPs from 3 separate parties can be unfair against those wanting the VoNC - I think MPs should have a good chance of getting a VoNC in if they want to (without being ridiculous of course...) It's at the division stage where it should be stopped if it comes to that...
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