The I-SOC (Islamic Society) XIII

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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    "Reason: I have an A in GCSE English, leave me alone" :eyeball:
    I made a spelling mistake in my original post
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    You should still be able to get a maintenance grant from student finance (which you don't have pay back, so don't have to deal with interests). The loan part, I'm think you can reject taking that? I'm not so sure, it's been so long since I dealt with student finance :lol:

    Otherwise I'm sure others may have some advice on how to do it. I ended up taking a student loan for uni
    They capped grants
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    Is anyone a hardcore physicist here? I'd like to ask a really serious question regarding the science of one verse in the quran.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Afaik you would only be sinning if you carried out homosexual acts.
    Every person has their own test which comes in different forms e.g. some are tested with disability, loss of loved one etc.
    To attain paradise you must not give into temptations, whether it's money, men, women etc. Overcoming these may not be easy, but getting into paradise isn't easy.

    If there was a miracle or God revealed himself, there would be no atheist/agnostic in this world which kinda defeats the purpose of believing don't you think?

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    So a homosexual persons test in life is to be celibate? Thus if they pass this test they attain the right to enter paradise and presumably in paradise they have to be.... celibate? Because homosexuality is not permitted right? Then it would not be paradise for said person. Or is homosexuality permitted in paradise?

    No, I don't think it would defeat the purpose of belief at all, it would defeat the purpose of blind faith yes, but what a strange concept blind faith is. Do you really think it is a fair and balanced system? What about a child from rural India born into a strongly religious Hindu family? Do you think they have the same chance of getting into paradise of a child born into a comparable Muslim family?

    How incredibly cruel that Allah creates all these humans knowing that the vast majority will be forever consigned to the fires of hell. This does not seem benevolent in the slightest.

    (Original post by Tawheed)
    My friends wife, a religious muslim woman, has recently 'come out' to him and told him that she is bisexual, strongly leaning to women. It's pretty much broken his heart, and now even he is starting to question if this is something you are born with, or something you maybe develop - and not intentionally- perhaps due to some sort of complex social conditioning - that is just by chance. Or if for some it is more intentional than that.

    [note, i am not giving my own view on the matter. Homosexuality as a practise of forbidden in Islam]
    Thank you for sharing that story. I just cannot believe that one day this woman woke up and thought to herself 'you know what, I want to be sexually attracted to women as well' this just doesn't happen. Whether or not it is something you are born with or an unconscious process arising from life experiences, I strongly believe it is not intentional. Why would she say that if she knew it would send her to hell?? She knows homosexuality is forbidden?

    In any case it is natural to ask why exactly it is forbidden in Islam (and indeed Christianity)? It doesn't harm anyone and any kind of mutual love and affection certainly isn't evil. Neither is it unnatural as you will find plenty of evidence for it in the natural world (which incidentally Allah created to be as such).
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    (Original post by TheJ0ker)

    Thank you for sharing that story. I just cannot believe that one day this woman woke up and thought to herself 'you know what, I want to be sexually attracted to women as well' this just doesn't happen. Whether or not it is something you are born with or an unconscious process arising from life experiences, I strongly believe it is not intentional. Why would she say that if she knew it would send her to hell?? She knows homosexuality is forbidden?

    In any case it is natural to ask why exactly it is forbidden in Islam (and indeed Christianity)? It doesn't harm anyone and any kind of mutual love and affection certainly isn't evil. Neither is it unnatural as you will find plenty of evidence for it in the natural world (which incidentally Allah created to be as such).
    I also don't believe anyone wakes up one day and decides to be gay. But i need to do some research on this myself. Currently, and you may disagree with me, i have a theory that sexuality in some cases, can be manipulated, unintentionally perhaps, or more deliberately, by a complex set of social factors and stimuli, and a complex array of interactions and predispositions. So in that sense, it is not predetermined by birth, but unmasked by nurture and circumstance.

    Which would explain why my friends wife isn't straight, gay, or even bisexual, but rather bisexual strongly leaning to women.

    I just have to put this out, because this is the I-Soc, and some may take my words wholly out of context - i am not at all saying acting out homosexuality is not a sin , and not against Gods command, but rather, i am talking about someone merely identifying with a predisposition, which is not a sin.
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    (Original post by endgametheory)
    Is anyone a hardcore physicist here? I'd like to ask a really serious question regarding the science of one verse in the quran.
    Is this an alleged Quranic contradiction?
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)


    Enjoy

    You can all REP me later, but the ice-cream version of this is pure Jannah.
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    (Original post by TheJ0ker)
    So a homosexual persons test in life is to be celibate? Thus if they pass this test they attain the right to enter paradise and presumably in paradise they have to be.... celibate? Because homosexuality is not permitted right? Then it would not be paradise for said person. Or is homosexuality permitted in paradise?
    I've seen different camps on the issue. Many sheikhs and and scholars say that one of the reasons they believe it can not be something that is absolutely determined at birth with no choice or hand in it, is because then , God would be unmerciful. He has made such strong desires in human beings, commanded them to marry, and then basically left them to a life of not having any legitimate way to control desires, because in Islam, even masturbation is absolutely forbidden.

    Some go so far as to say, believing is it absolutely natural and no-one has any hand at all in it is akin to questioning the mercy and justice of God for thus, making it forbidden.

    Another camp states that even if it were natural, it may be a test still. After all, disability, death, chaos and far greater tragedies have occurred in life, more taxing than this.

    I guess, at the end of the day, this life isn't supposed to be the one that is fair and has pure justice. It's meant to be temporary, and real justice will be given on the 'day of judgement', and eternal life, which is infinite, and thus, absolutely overshadows any finite pain or loss.
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    **Sorry to everyone i have not replied to on my Q and A thread , or on other boards. I have noted down every single question going back a month or two. I am currently helping a brother atm, as well as trying to take a break from answering.
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    (Original post by TheJ0ker)
    So a homosexual persons test in life is to be celibate? Thus if they pass this test they attain the right to enter paradise and presumably in paradise they have to be.... celibate? Because homosexuality is not permitted right? Then it would not be paradise for said person. Or is homosexuality permitted in paradise?

    No, I don't think it would defeat the purpose of belief at all, it would defeat the purpose of blind faith yes, but what a strange concept blind faith is. Do you really think it is a fair and balanced system? What about a child from rural India born into a strongly religious Hindu family? Do you think they have the same chance of getting into paradise of a child born into a comparable Muslim family?

    How incredibly cruel that Allah creates all these humans knowing that the vast majority will be forever consigned to the fires of hell. This does not seem benevolent in the slightest.
    Everyone will have their desires fulfilled in paradise.

    You have Hindus converting to Islam, and Muslims leaving it.
    Unless you live under a rock and have never heard about Islam or have been given a distorted view of it, you really have no excuse.

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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    **Sorry to everyone i have not replied to on my Q and A thread , or on other boards. I have noted down every single question going back a month or two. I am currently helping a brother atm, as well as trying to take a break from answering.
    Lol I was thinking why is he airing us all

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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Everyone will have their desires fulfilled in paradise.

    You have Hindus converting to Islam, and Muslims leaving it.
    Unless you live under a rock and have never heard about Islam or have been given a distorted view of it, you really have no excuse.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    according to Islam, Allah created everything, including humans, with all their qualities

    where do our bad qualities and the evil within us come from ? we ourselves cannot create anything
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    according to Islam, Allah created everything, including humans, with all their qualities

    where do our bad qualities and the evil within us come from ? we ourselves cannot create anything
    The potential of free will exists in us. It does not mean God actualises it for us, but rather the potential is there. Is being able to potentially do evil akin to doing evil itself?
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    (Original post by TheJ0ker)

    No, I don't think it would defeat the purpose of belief at all, it would defeat the purpose of blind faith yes, but what a strange concept blind faith is. Do you really think it is a fair and balanced system? What about a child from rural India born into a strongly religious Hindu family? Do you think they have the same chance of getting into paradise of a child born into a comparable Muslim family?

    How incredibly cruel that Allah creates all these humans knowing that the vast majority will be forever consigned to the fires of hell. This does not seem benevolent in the slightest.

    .

    The answer is - only God ultimately knows. God is the most knowledgable, and if we humans have realised that some obviously start with a massive handicap , compared to others, and have an easier and or harder time than others, it is clear that God in his supreme justice and mercy, will not wrong anyone in the least. Every single factor, permutation, and complex array of social, geographic, biological and other array of factors will all be taken into account.

    At the end of the day, only God knows, and only he can ultimately judge. No-one will be wronged in the least, not even an atoms weight of injustice and unfairness will be dealt to them.

    In a world devoid of God, there is no such thing as absolute morality either. There is no 'good' or 'evil'. Everything is relative and a social construct, and how we make sense of it. In fact, 'good' could be what we deem to be ultimately the most evolutionary beneficial thing. So there ultimately, in the atheistic point of view, absolutely nothing like 'cruel' objectively. Cruel can merely be what is not beneficial to our survival. In fact, as we survive and live forever in hell, that essentially undermines any form of morality based on evolutionary survival.

    In an atheistic world view, there is nothing wrong with being racist objectively. The reason why it is 'wrong' is because it is not beneficial to the survival of our race to create wars, discord , fighting and destruction which racism brings. It is better for our overall survival and benefit to not be racist.

    Muslims on the other hand believe that God exists, and that human beings objectively have morals, and that God has ordained objectively as one of the tenants of morality that racism is wicked and amongst the worst of evils. Even if you had two humans, teleported to another galaxy, having no bearing on our survival on earth, unknown to anyone, being racist to each other, that would still be morally wrong.

    Or, as muslims believe, God imbued certain aspects of morality into the nature of the human being, and hence, it is objective in that way. By being racist, or by committing cruelty and murder and oppression , we go against our nature - fitrah.
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    The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:“Do not speak badly of the dead, they have already seen the result of (the deeds) that they sent on before them.” Saheeh Bukhari
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    any duas for exam success
    results day is fast approaching
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    The potential of free will exists in us. It does not mean God actualises it for us, but rather the potential is there. Is being able to potentially do evil akin to doing evil itself?
    you won't be surprised if I tell you that this is not very convincing : why should we have this "potential to do evil" ? who created it and why ?

    but of course this is not the place for a debate

    best
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    Remember surah Kahf guys.

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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Remember surah Kahf guys.

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    Thanks for the reminder, usually it's me lol
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    (Original post by s_ahmed2)
    Thanks for the reminder, usually it's me lol
    Lol no worries, I wanted to steal the ajar today.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
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