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The Classics Society Mk II watch

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    (Original post by The Lyceum)
    Awesome. Interestingly I know someone here is researching Ovid. Otherwise known as the smarmiest ******* who ever lived. Honestly I have no idea, just read whichever you prefer? I mean the further back you go the wackier translations can be. One must recall that trite and famous criticism of Pope's translation of Homer "A pretty poem, sir, a pretty poem. But one mustn't call it Homer".

    I'm going to mosey on over and have a read of the 1567 one actually. I mean it is 16th century!
    If nobody's jumped out yet shouting "GOLDING, GOLDING, WHATEVER YOU DO!!!" I'll go for the modern one. Maybe not as fun, but at least I won't be reading it with a funny accent - "Of shapes transformde to bodies straunge..."

    Slightly peeved I wasn't allowed to search for Ovid rather than Ovidius, but I'll live... unless the iPhone screen proves too small and I ended up throwing it out of a window

    Anyone else love how you can randomly find translations by people whose other works you've read? Just in my Perseus search I found Marlowe's English Amores and Frazer's Latin edition of Fasti

    Aside: Finally got round to doing my firm and insurance, woo! One less thing to worry about
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    (Original post by The Lyceum)
    Obviously, but this is a whole different area, we're talking about why modern history is more digestible in schools. Closer relevancy is one of the reasons I cited in terms of culture. I think that in general we ought not to worry about Classics in schools anyway, this is really unfashionable to say as a Classicist, but ah well.

    I also agree with you that its not as if society will implode without Classics, but then utility isn't the only use of education.

    In terms of sheer relevancy, history wise, we ought to focus on the early modern period onwards (1500+ basically) since that gives quite a lot of logical cohesion as well as providing a wide variety of skills since you cover different areas. I think Oxford (and quite a few uni's actually) have the right approach in that if you do a history degree, even with a focus on modern history, it still requires quite a few skills and a much lengthier area of expertise. So still around 3/400 years to avoid the situation I was describing above with my friends.

    It has to be admitted in general though when it comes to the more modern times of history (again 1500+) we're really not as good as our European friends, the level of scholarship put out in German and French is significantly better than what most of us are apparently doing.

    Incidentally, I know its not the same discussion but re: your being disastrous if everyone has Classics. Well of course I agree, and I would extend the statement so far as to say that the state of the discipline in general is fine (where intake is concerned) and we ought to be less eager to widen participation by odd avenues like all this focus on reception. As if we, by reading Plutarch and Seneca, can know more about 17th century English intellectual culture than the English lit and History guys. :|
    Are you generally anti everything?
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    (Original post by Sappho)
    Are you generally anti everything?
    Ha, not at all. Just old and haggard.

    Plus if we focus on the good things nothing gets done, and I guess in general the Classicsy stuff I find interesting most tend to get bored by. I was told today, for example, that there is apparently nothing more boring than Greek Religions. :o:p

    EDIT: That's awesome Aesc, how does it feel to have your choices formalised no matter what? now just get those grades and look forward to a nice long summer break.
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    (Original post by The Lyceum)
    Ha, not at all. Just old and haggard.

    Plus if we focus on the good things nothing gets done, and I guess in general the Classicsy stuff I find interesting most tend to get bored by. I was told today, for example, that there is apparently nothing more boring than Greek Religions. :o:p

    EDIT: That's awesome Aesc, how does it feel to have your choices formalised no matter what? now just get those grades and look forward to a nice long summer break.
    I feel like I've probably done something wrong, but then the UCAS website generally has that effect on me. I've got an insurance I think I'd love too, with a lovely low offer, so I'm chilled. Glad it's over though, it was getting close to the deadline and I was worried I'd forget and miss it...
    Quite confident I can get an A* now (I take it all back, coursework is a godsend) so not too stressful this May/June. Then a month of reading everything I haven't had time for, two weeks Latin at Wells, and the day I get back I'm hopefully getting straight on a coach to the Fringe. Just keep telling myself it'll be totally worth the exams
    (I'm really quite enjoying this Ovid)
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    (Original post by Aesc)
    I feel like I've probably done something wrong, but then the UCAS website generally has that effect on me. I've got an insurance I think I'd love too, with a lovely low offer, so I'm chilled. Glad it's over though, it was getting close to the deadline and I was worried I'd forget and miss it...
    Quite confident I can get an A* now (I take it all back, coursework is a godsend) so not too stressful this May/June. Then a month of reading everything I haven't had time for, two weeks Latin at Wells, and the day I get back I'm hopefully getting straight on a coach to the Fringe. Just keep telling myself it'll be totally worth the exams
    (I'm really quite enjoying this Ovid)
    Yeah think of it as one last push or something. I remember when I was at college, yeaaars ago, that we were constantly told that most people "fail" (don't make their grades) due to running out of steam in the past few months. I can kind of sympathise with that actually.

    I can CERTAINLY sympathise with the panic over UCAS, though I guess we should be thankful we don't have to physically write out and mail in applications like previous generations, right?

    Its cool that you're enjoying Ovid. I've always found him a bit smarmy. Essentially he's the first real modern poet. Capable of all sorts of weird inter, and metatextual, stuff, has a grasp of reader-response theory etc and that can make him very interesting. Its just that he knows he's so damn smart and that irks me a little. He has some seriously moving lines in the Heroides, I must admit.

    I think, to this day, Juvenal remains my favourite Latin post. He's funny and has the habit of being so dirty with his his innuendo you have to take a shower after reading it.
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    (Original post by The Lyceum)
    I can CERTAINLY sympathise with the panic over UCAS, though I guess we should be thankful we don't have to physically write out and mail in applications like previous generations, right?
    It doesn't have to work like that. ou could as well just walk into uni like in Germany I find it pretty weird that they send pretty much everybody into uni in the UK.
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    (Original post by Sappho)
    It doesn't have to work like that. ou could as well just walk into uni like in Germany I find it pretty weird that they send pretty much everybody into uni in the UK.
    Well I don't really know much about the German application system actually. I remember something about subject streams beforehand like you take a "humanities path" or something and learn Latin and apply to your humanities courses etc.

    Do you think we have too many people in uni here? On one hand I kind of do, but on the other I thought we were behind other countries?
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    (Original post by The Lyceum)
    Well I don't really know much about the German application system actually. I remember something about subject streams beforehand like you take a "humanities path" or something and learn Latin and apply to your humanities courses etc.

    Do you think we have too many people in uni here? On one hand I kind of do, but on the other I thought we were behind other countries?
    For most subjects and unis, there is no application system. I know it's hard to believe but you actually just turn up.
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    (Original post by Sappho)
    For most subjects and unis, there is no application system. I know it's hard to believe but you actually just turn up.
    Don't they have really, really hard exams in first year to weed people out though? :beard:

    Germany has a lower percentage of people at uni than the UK, but I was under the impression that this was only due to the fact that their vocational education system is very well developed. Since the UK doesn't have the same level of manufacturing-based industry as Germany, I'm not sure trying to bring this system into the UK would actually be for the best tbh. We are behind some countries - Finland has 80% at uni, and I think the other Scandanavian countries are up there too.

    CAO (ROI system) is almost like that too, no personal statement, no interviews for anything, even medicine, just make a list of preferences and you're allocated a place based on your grades. On the other hand their points system is horribly biased against UK applicants, with the result you need A*A*A*A* to have a chance of getting on TCD's medicine course (but CC for classics :ninja:)
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    (Original post by Sappho)
    For most subjects and unis, there is no application system. I know it's hard to believe but you actually just turn up.
    one sec...access to unis is pretty much open to everyone in Greece as well. But if you want to participate in exams/receive marks and eventually a degree you have to be enrolled as a student. And in order to enrol you have to pass some exams. Is it different in Germany? Can anyone just walk in from the street and take a degree?
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    (Original post by Aesc)
    I feel like I've probably done something wrong, but then the UCAS website generally has that effect on me. I've got an insurance I think I'd love too, with a lovely low offer, so I'm chilled. Glad it's over though, it was getting close to the deadline and I was worried I'd forget and miss it...
    Quite confident I can get an A* now (I take it all back, coursework is a godsend) so not too stressful this May/June. Then a month of reading everything I haven't had time for, two weeks Latin at Wells, and the day I get back I'm hopefully getting straight on a coach to the Fringe. Just keep telling myself it'll be totally worth the exams
    (I'm really quite enjoying this Ovid)
    that's the spirit Ovid is in my opinion the most modern poet of the ancients and definitely the most witty one. Plus he's got that sexism going on which I find hilarious. Having to write "Andromache is advised to ride Hector during sex" in my dissertation is probably the best thing that happened to me this week
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    (Original post by medbh4805)
    Don't they have really, really hard exams in first year to weed people out though? :beard:

    Germany has a lower percentage of people at uni than the UK, but I was under the impression that this was only due to the fact that their vocational education system is very well developed. Since the UK doesn't have the same level of manufacturing-based industry as Germany, I'm not sure trying to bring this system into the UK would actually be for the best tbh. We are behind some countries - Finland has 80% at uni, and I think the other Scandanavian countries are up there too.

    CAO (ROI system) is almost like that too, no personal statement, no interviews for anything, even medicine, just make a list of preferences and you're allocated a place based on your grades. On the other hand their points system is horribly biased against UK applicants, with the result you need A*A*A*A* to have a chance of getting on TCD's medicine course (but CC for classics :ninja:)
    They don't need to scare people out because less (edit: fewer - hate English )people come in in the first place. And maybe we have more unis as well? I mean funding is non-centralistic, that might be an advantage as well. Btw, no tuition fees except in Bavaria.

    I just don't really understand why they'd make you do a Classics degree to do an office job. You get skills, but you can get those elsewhere along with other things you'll actually need and might find more interesting as well.

    It's not like Ireland becasue you decide where you go except for very high demand stuff (see below) in my answer to Corinna. And UCAS is ridiclously biased against our system as well. That's what you need to cope with when you go abroad...
    (Original post by *Corinna*)
    one sec...access to unis is pretty much open to everyone in Greece as well. But if you want to participate in exams/receive marks and eventually a degree you have to be enrolled as a student. And in order to enrol you have to pass some exams. Is it different in Germany? Can anyone just walk in from the street and take a degree?
    Well, you have to finish school of course. But with that in your pocket, you walk into uni and say "Hi want to be a student" and a student you are. With slightly more bureaucracy than that (we're SO good at that), but not more selection processes, except for high-demand subjects (like Medicine) or normal-demand subjects at high demand unis (like French at, say, Heidelberg).
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    (Original post by Sappho)
    They don't need to scare people out because less (edit: fewer - hate English )people come in in the first place. And maybe we have more unis as well? I mean funding is non-centralistic, that might be an advantage as well. Btw, no tuition fees except in Bavaria.

    I just don't really understand why they'd make you do a Classics degree to do an office job. You get skills, but you can get those elsewhere along with other things you'll actually need and might find more interesting as well.

    It's not like Ireland becasue you decide where you go except for very high demand stuff (see below) in my answer to Corinna. And UCAS is ridiclously biased against our system as well. That's what you need to cope with when you go abroad...

    Well, you have to finish school of course. But with that in your pocket, you walk into uni and say "Hi want to be a student" and a student you are. With slightly more bureaucracy than that (we're SO good at that), but not more selection processes, except for high-demand subjects (like Medicine) or normal-demand subjects at high demand unis (like French at, say, Heidelberg).
    yeah but don't they ask for a specific grade? Say I finish school with the lowest mark possible (so that would be 10 out of 20 in Greece) can I still go to a respectable uni and study Classics?
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    (Original post by *Corinna*)
    yeah but don't they ask for a specific grade? Say I finish school with the lowest mark possible (so that would be 10 out of 20 in Greece) can I still go to a respectable uni and study Classics?
    Yes, you can. As far as I know, you can go to any German uni with a 4,0 to do Classics. I know that Heidelberg, Tübingen, München, Göttigen accept you with that. I imagine that all the others will, too.
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    (Original post by Sappho)
    Yes, you can. As far as I know, you can go to any German uni with a 4,0 to do Classics. I know that Heidelberg, Tübingen, München, Göttigen accept you with that. I imagine that all the others will, too.
    that's pretty weird
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    Ah I really must make my grasp of German much more conversational. I really would love to spend a year or two in Tübingen, Heidelberg or Bonn. It really would be awesome to teach a (only slightly!) more neo-analytical based Homer alongside having access to some of the best near Eastern studies in the world.

    A dream and only a dream, alas.
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    (Original post by *Corinna*)
    that's pretty weird
    Not really. You've finished school, that means you can go to university, doesn't it? If you pass, that means you pass, why would there be a pass and non-pass if that meant nothing? I know what you mean, but actually it's not that weird.
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    (Original post by The Lyceum)
    Ah I really must make my grasp of German much more conversational. I really would love to spend a year or two in Tübingen, Heidelberg or Bonn. It really would be awesome to teach a (only slightly!) more neo-analytical based Homer alongside having access to some of the best near Eastern studies in the world.

    A dream and only a dream, alas.
    You don't want to be in Bonn. Believe me. You just don't.
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    (Original post by Sappho)
    Not really. You've finished school, that means you can go to university, doesn't it? If you pass, that means you pass, why would there be a pass and non-pass if that meant nothing? I know what you mean, but actually it's not that weird.
    yeah but passing with a 1 and passing with a 4 is not the same. I believe that certain people should not go to university really.
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    (Original post by Sappho)
    Not really. You've finished school, that means you can go to university, doesn't it? If you pass, that means you pass, why would there be a pass and non-pass if that meant nothing? I know what you mean, but actually it's not that weird.
    I agree with you, it sounds like a pretty cool system to me. However, of course, there's much greater stratification at pre-university level in Germany, and only around 10% of kids (as I understand it) actually get the Abitur, so plus ça change...
 
 
 
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