Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Eilidh.DearX
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#1721
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#1721
I am Scottish, here is my opinion. I am really against Scottish independence, I think it is an awful idea and I'm certain everyone in my large family does not want it either. We'd have to rejoin the EU, use the euro and we'd be exceptionally vulnerable to attack from other countries I think. It makes me so sad that English people want/don't care if Scotland go independent, I wouldn't want England to leave the UK I love being united with England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and I want it to always be like that. It would also be a ridiculous hassle to have to take your passport if you wanted to enter or leave Scotland! Load of nonsense. Slightly anxious to what the outcome of the referendum will be, I hope there's a clear majority of people voting no.
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MatureStudent36
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#1722
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#1722
(Original post by Eilidh.DearX)
I am Scottish, here is my opinion. I am really against Scottish independence, I think it is an awful idea and I'm certain everyone in my large family does not want it either. We'd have to rejoin the EU, use the euro and we'd be exceptionally vulnerable to attack from other countries I think. It makes me so sad that English people want/don't care if Scotland go independent, I wouldn't want England to leave the UK I love being united with England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and I want it to always be like that. It would also be a ridiculous hassle to have to take your passport if you wanted to enter or leave Scotland! Load of nonsense. Slightly anxious to what the outcome of the referendum will be, I hope there's a clear majority of people voting no.
I think you'll find most English people do care as do the Welsh and Northern Irish. It's not coming across most peoples radar at the moment down south as in times like this people just knuckle down and focus on their own immediate surroundings....not too dissimilar to most Scots. But when that happens the fringes of society come out to play and to try and influence normal people. In Greece we see that the extreme Left and the extreme right have made gains but once things get back to normal their support will dissapear.

You also need to remember that it's been pushed as a Scottish discussion even though this impacts on everybody in the UK. Infact most of them are respecting it and keeping out of it. That's why I'm confused as to SNP HQ trying to get it's supporters to push for Cameron to debate the issue.....even though it's now a devolved issue that he's not allowed to vote in.

I think that there's also a view point that they see a Scottish Prime Minister and Chancellor mess up the economy, their tax money being used to bail out two Scottish banks and then we say 'Cheers for that. We're off.'

There are insular people throughout the UK. One insular person from one part feels that they're being portrayed as the bad guy by an insular person in another part who's being vocal, then they both get vocal. It's the Vocal Minority Mindset. And rememeber he who shouts loudest doesn't normally tend to represent the views of the views of the majority....as the polling figures show.


My true concern though is how much bad blood this entire excercise will create.
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dixie2013
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#1723
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#1723
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Well you did say

This bedroom tax is only "needed" because of the housing problems in London.

I'm sorry for your situation (If it's true) but start having a go at the people who are not disabled ruining it for other people and it's not just in London. It's everywhere as we've created a culture of entitlement. And as you've stated, you're returning to work.

Many of us growing up as Children had to share bedrooms. But then again we all came from families that didn't expect anybody else to foot the bill.

The simple fact is everywhere in the UK lives beyond it's means. Politicians since the ened of the war have got in by promising the electorate more and more freebies. Salmonds great at this. Free this, Free that, Free whatever you want just as long as you vote for me. The problem is that he doesn't have to deliver it. All he has to deliver is a yes vote and nothing else, so you'll forgive me for not buying into the bluster.
Well to start of this, yes it is true. You would have to be a really sick person to lie about something like that. I can prove it, if you would like. Also i may have worded what i wrote wrong, i knew what i meant but i apologize for it. As i have said before i totally agree with you but this should have been more thought out. Im only 25 but worked as soon as i left school, and as i said before the only reason i stopped working was to care for my partner & children when she had her brain aneurism 3 years ago and for 3 years its been killing me that ive not been able to work but i had a responsibility to my family. Now she is at the point that she can look after herself and the kids i can go back to my job i originally had in the 1st place.

The way i see it, if you claim benefits that you are not entitled to plus scamming the welfare system, you should be locked up and not given a silly little fine.

As for the free things, are you referring to Scotland getting free education and free prescriptions.
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dixie2013
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#1724
(Original post by Eilidh.DearX)
I am Scottish, here is my opinion. I am really against Scottish independence, I think it is an awful idea and I'm certain everyone in my large family does not want it either. We'd have to rejoin the EU, use the euro and we'd be exceptionally vulnerable to attack from other countries I think. It makes me so sad that English people want/don't care if Scotland go independent, I wouldn't want England to leave the UK I love being united with England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and I want it to always be like that. It would also be a ridiculous hassle to have to take your passport if you wanted to enter or leave Scotland! Load of nonsense. Slightly anxious to what the outcome of the referendum will be, I hope there's a clear majority of people voting no.
We would not have to join the EU, it would be a choice.
We would not be forced use Euro instead of Pound
Why would we be vulnerable to attacks, just because we wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction that are wrong anyway.
Where are you getting this passport nonsense from.
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Jordan_1
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#1725
(Original post by Eilidh.DearX)
I am Scottish, here is my opinion. I am really against Scottish independence, I think it is an awful idea and I'm certain everyone in my large family does not want it either. We'd have to rejoin the EU, use the euro and we'd be exceptionally vulnerable to attack from other countries I think. It makes me so sad that English people want/don't care if Scotland go independent, I wouldn't want England to leave the UK I love being united with England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and I want it to always be like that. It would also be a ridiculous hassle to have to take your passport if you wanted to enter or leave Scotland! Load of nonsense. Slightly anxious to what the outcome of the referendum will be, I hope there's a clear majority of people voting no.
This is such a stupid post.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by dixie2013)
Well to start of this, yes it is true. You would have to be a really sick person to lie about something like that. I can prove it, if you would like. Also i may have worded what i wrote wrong, i knew what i meant but i apologize for it. As i have said before i totally agree with you but this should have been more thought out. Im only 25 but worked as soon as i left school, and as i said before the only reason i stopped working was to care for my partner & children when she had her brain aneurism 3 years ago and for 3 years its been killing me that ive not been able to work but i had a responsibility to my family. Now she is at the point that she can look after herself and the kids i can go back to my job i originally had in the 1st place.

The way i see it, if you claim benefits that you are not entitled to plus scamming the welfare system, you should be locked up and not given a silly little fine.

As for the free things, are you referring to Scotland getting free education and free prescriptions.
I shouldn't have implied anything, but there are people out there who make claims that aren't true.

There are many people out there who see benefits as free money and don't realise that nothing is free and somebody is paying for it somewhere along the line.

I'm sorry for cutting and pasting a previous post but I think it explains things quite well.


  1. University Tuition Fees

    It's generally acknowledged that Middle class people tend to go off to University whilst working class people tend to go off to college. (Personally I really think we've lost our way with trying to get everybody to University as I don't think we'd be anywhere near the mess we're in had we had a strong vibrant manufacturing base.)Fergus, although being able to afford it get free University education, whilst Mac is now struggling foolow the SNPs recent cuts to college education resulting in Mac finding it difficult to learn the skills that will allow him to succeed.

    Conclusion. Mac's taxes are being used to better support Fergus.


    Free Prescriptions.Down South.Free prescriptions are available for:-
    • are 60 or over
    • are under 16
    • are 16-18 and in full-time education
    • are pregnant or have had a baby in the previous 12 months and have a valid maternity exemption certificate (MatEx)
    • have a specified medical condition and have a valid medical exemption certificate (MedEx)
    • have a continuing physical disability that prevents you from going out without help from another person and have a valid MedEx
    • hold a valid war pension exemption certificate and the prescription is for your accepted disability
    • are an NHS inpatient


You are also entitled to free prescriptions if you or your partner (including civil partners) are named on, or are entitled to, an NHS tax credit exemption certificate or a valid HC2 certificate (full help with health costs), or you receive either:

  • Income Support
  • Income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance
  • Income-related Employment and Support Allowance, or
  • Pension Credit Guarantee Credit
  • Universal Credit


http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthc...tioncosts.aspx

So basically, most people who need free prescriptions get free prescriptions.

Now Fergus, although more than capable of paying for a prescription as he doesn't fit into any of the above categories, gets a free prescription to deal with that rather irratating rash he picked up from a less than safe encounter in a nightclub one night.

Conclusion. Mac's taxes are being used to better support Fergus.

Council Tax Freeze.

The council tax freeze just results in a real term cuts in council tax spend as inflation and staff payrises dig into the budget. End result. Both Mac and Fergus will still get their bins emptied, but Mac's working class area which is more reliant on council services such as social housing, social care etc sees less spent on it. Therefore Macs working class area is the one that suffers as it has the heaviest reliance on the diminished services provided.

Conclusion. The more needier of society loose out.

Let us also have a long hard look at the following report relating to child poverty throughout the UK.Amazingly, Scotland is in a better situation than a lot of the area's in the UK although listening to the SNP we are the poorest region in the UK, but Scotland is still far from the best even with a higher spend per capita.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21511583Suprisngly the North West of England, and the Midlands do a better job relating to dealing with Child Poverty than we do with more money to spend on it as they have lower per capita spending than we do, and having more control with a devolved parliament. I guess the question is where does the money go that can impact on that? I think the answer is on the entitlements.

I have no problems with a welfare state. But I doubt that we are able to afford anywhere near the promises that the SNP are offering. Infact their own internal documents back up my suspicions.

http://b.3cdn.net/better/c1d14076ee0..._u9m6vd74f.pdf


I get upset when people try and turn this against Scotland versus London and the South East. Scotland isn't subsidying London or the South East. (even though most of our tax money is from something that comes out of the ground where as tLondon and the South East isn't based on natural resources at all) Scotland, the South East and London are subsidysing the North of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. So why does the SNP try and make London out to be the bad guys in this? Why, becuase Nationalism needs and Enemy, so instead of leaving themselves open to accusations of racism, they call the English by another name, even though they know most of their supporters will make the connection.

What I'd like is massive investment in these regions so they don't need so much subsidy which means that they can pay their way more and we all benefit from that. But that doesn't just involve throwing money at the problem. That involves building up labour productivity numbers for the whole of the UK. That will also mean that people are more capable of paying their own way rather than expecting somebody else to foot the bill so we can actually care for the more vunerable members of society.
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MatureStudent36
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#1727
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#1727
(Original post by dixie2013)
We would not have to join the EU, it would be a choice.

But the SNP have already decided that we will try and join the Euro. Infact many of it's supporters have criticised the Conservatives for offering a referendum on the issue and UKIp for being Anti EU. Can you please keep up on the party line as what you're promoting here is evenmore uncertainty for the future. Infact what you're saying is we'll get seperate forst and then decide what we want to do. Sadly life doesn't work like that. The economy still needs towork, taxes still need to get collected and mortgages paid. Having a long drawn out decision process just means that you're not connected to the real world.


We would not be forced use Euro instead of Pound

Yes we would. It's a precondition of joining Europe now. Plus we'd have no central bank so somebody needs to back us. You're making an assumption that the Bank of England will still back us. There's no indication that they will other than what the SNP have said to gain votes.....and remember they don't need to deliver on their promosies post referendum.

Why would we be vulnerable to attacks, just because we wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction that are wrong anyway.

Read up on the history of the cold war. Nuclear weapons kept the peace. And infact you'll see from released documents from teh Soviet Union that of all the NATO member nations in the cold war there was only the US, UK and France that the Warsaw pact nations weren't going to use tactical nuclear weapons on.

Lets also rememeber that as part of NATO we have to meet certain minimum military requirements as a member. The SNPs defence policy has been somewhat lacking so far.

Read up on current affairs ref North Korea, Iran etc etc etc. I don't like nukes any more than the next person but you can't univent something.


Where are you getting this passport nonsense from.

We'd be a seperate country. Seperate Countries have seperate Passports. This is another Nat assumption that's been prooved wrong time and time again.
See above in bold.
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321zero
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#1728
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#1728
Should the consensus in Scotland wish for indepedence, I see no right of the UK to prevent it, my opinion is the same on Catalonian indepedence.
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dixie2013
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But is Scotland is not subsidized why should Scotland not be in charge of its own affairs. Scotland has no say on most things, like i said Scotland's votes have no impact on anything that happens in the UK Government, resulting in having a government that we didn't vote for.

Now whilst still agreeing with 90% of what you are saying i still believe Scotland future would be better as an independent nation.

And referring to the video that has been posted on "yes to an independent scotland" facebook page. I agree with it. The video has approached all these Unionist theory's with sensible answers theirfor debunking them.

Just out of curiosity, have you watched the video. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200973889373546
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Good bloke
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#1730
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#1730
(Original post by dixie2013)
Scotland's votes have no impact on anything that happens in the UK
Yet, as I mentioned previously, it was Scottish MPs' votes that tipped the balance in raising English university fees a few years ago. How can you say that Scots don't influence things?
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dixie2013
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(Original post by Good bloke)
Yet, as I mentioned previously, it was Scottish MPs' votes that tipped the balance in raising English university fees a few years ago. How can you say that Scots don't influence things?
What im saying is, If you take away the Scottish votes, it has no impact on who gets voted into the UK GOV
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Eilidh.DearX
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#1732
Jeez you guys are rude. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I meant we'd be vulnerable because we'd have to get our own secret service, police force, army bases... I don't see me saying anything about weapons of mass destruction? I hate politics, after this experience never posting in a forum to do with politics again.
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Officegirl4
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#1733
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#1733
Would an independent Scotland charge student fees?
I've heard that an independent Scotland would have no student fees written into its constitution, not entirely sure how accurate this is?
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MatureStudent36
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#1734
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#1734
(Original post by dixie2013)
But is Scotland is not subsidized why should Scotland not be in charge of its own affairs. Scotland has no say on most things, like i said Scotland's votes have no impact on anything that happens in the UK Government, resulting in having a government that we didn't vote for.

Now whilst still agreeing with 90% of what you are saying i still believe Scotland future would be better as an independent nation.

And referring to the video that has been posted on "yes to an independent scotland" facebook page. I agree with it. The video has approached all these Unionist theory's with sensible answers theirfor debunking them.

Just out of curiosity, have you watched the video.
Yes I watched the video. I saw a very persuasive Youtube video from the BNP many months ago as well. In both cases I disregarded what they have to say as although slick in their production they are generally rubbish. Remember Right wing extremists teach their supporters what to say when questioned, as do left wing extremists and radicals and party political supporters everywhere. So I'm not to bothered about people repeating off parrot fashion what they''ve been told to say.

Other wise you just come across as some of the SNP youth activists. I remember one a few weeks ago who at 16 had reviewed the economic model and felt it was sound. He hadn't reveiwed anything. He'd just repeated what he was told and failed miserably there.

Can you please stop portraying us as victims in this. We have a say. We have an equal say to everybody throughout the UK and even more so when you consider we have a devolved parliament. We've produced two of the last three Prime Ministers, Two of the last three Chancellors. So we have as much say as anybody else. Scotland traditionally votes Labour as does Wales as do many parts of England. We can't jus throw our toys out of the pram because Labour didn't get in this time.

What next? Aberdeen seperates because it doesn't have a say in Holyrood? That's democracy. And I'm sorry for not wanting to risk my future, and the future of my family because one time, one political party got in at a local level but failed on the national level.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Eilidh.DearX)
Jeez you guys are rude. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I meant we'd be vulnerable because we'd have to get our own secret service, police force, army bases... I don't see me saying anything about weapons of mass destruction? I hate politics, after this experience never posting in a forum to do with politics again.
Please don't let it get to you.

I was going to say it's an SNP thing. But it's not. Nationalists everywhere do it. They attack anybody that doesn't agree with them.

I'm just waiting to see if those attacks are going to change from verbal to physical in teh near future.
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MatureStudent36
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#1736
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(Original post by Officegirl4)
Would an independent Scotland charge student fees?
I've heard that an independent Scotland would have no student fees written into its constitution, not entirely sure how accurate this is?
It'll cost us about £140 Million a year for English, Welsh and Northern Irish Students.

But then again I'm not entirely sure the SNP will be keeping free tuition feed in the future unless they're looking at hiking up personal taxes significantly.

But then again, as with all of their post seperation policies. They don't actually have to be grounded in attainablity. They just have to try and persuade voters that they will be andthen cut them after and say 'wat are you going to do about it'?
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dixie2013
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But like i said in my original post, This is all from my perspective. My perspective obviously came from somewhere. I know what i want to believe and you know what you want to believe. Theirs obviously no common ground. Let it be that nothings going to get solved on a forum. We will just have to wait until 18th September 2013 and see what happens, where people go to vote on something they believe is right or wrong.
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dixie2013
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#1738
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(Original post by Eilidh.DearX)
Jeez you guys are rude
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Please don't let it get to you.
Like he said, dont take it personally, people are either going to be with you or not. You are entitled to your view and so is the next person.

Eg, me and MatureStudent36 dont have the same views but it not bothering me, he is entitled to his view as i am mine.
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Eilidh.DearX
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#1739
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Please don't let it get to you.

I was going to say it's an SNP thing. But it's not. Nationalists everywhere do it. They attack anybody that doesn't agree with them.

I'm just waiting to see if those attacks are going to change from verbal to physical in teh near future.
In response to your original message to me I agree with your statement about the bad blood situ, I'm concerned about that too come to mention it, I hope things don't turn physical =/ Trying not to let it get to me, I always forget how keyboard aggressive people can be and I was shocked and disappointed. Fortunately there are people like you who can talk in a civilised fashion
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dixie2013
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But on the EU stance,not just for Scotland. Im clueless. I don't understand.
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