Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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MatureStudent36
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#1741
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#1741
(Original post by dixie2013)
But that is the exact same for the No supporters. Swings in roundabouts. Im not including the undecided votes. Just between yes and no. Also that graph is more than a month old
It show sthe last twenty odd years.

I doubt they'll be a massive swing on such an important matter as this is a massive event.

As somebody once said to me. You may have the most ardent supporter of seperation, but when it comes to the cold light of day in the polling booth with so many unkowns, then reality kicks in.

We have no answer on.
Curreny
Defence
Europe.
IMF
WTO
UN
Pensions
The Economy
Welfare Spending


All we have is vague promises that don't seem to be deliverable.
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MatureStudent36
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#1742
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#1742
(Original post by dixie2013)
But on the EU stance,not just for Scotland. Im clueless. I don't understand.
Well if you're clueless on it. Stop repeating parrot fashion what the party line is.
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dixie2013
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#1743
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#1743
Now i welcome the running up to 18th Sep 2014 so we hopefully get those questions answered.
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dixie2013
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#1744
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#1744
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Well if you're clueless on it. Stop repeating parrot fashion what the party line is.
Im on about why UK Gov wants to leave and why Independent Scotland wants to join. I have only been saying things that the party i support has been saying. I welcome anyone who can give me non bias information on EU.
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MatureStudent36
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#1745
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#1745
(Original post by Eilidh.DearX)
In response to your original message to me I agree with your statement about the bad blood situ, I'm concerned about that too come to mention it, I hope things don't turn physical =/ Trying not to let it get to me, I always forget how keyboard aggressive people can be and I was shocked and disappointed. Fortunately there are people like you who can talk in a civilised fashion

Thank you.

For a real example of how aggressive people can be try having a look at the comments pages on any Scottish online Newspaper. You'll see peoplestrue colours shining trough there.
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MatureStudent36
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#1746
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#1746
(Original post by dixie2013)
Im on about why UK Gov wants to leave and why Independent Scotland wants to join.
When has the UK government said it wants to leave? Yet another Nat mistruth. Especially after the SNP have historically not wanted to be a member of the EU. But now they've changed their mind (which they're allowed to do) but many of its supporters are saying that we can decide in the future although the SNP has failed to say that it will give us a referendum on the matter.
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dixie2013
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#1747
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#1747
If they don't want to leave why does Mr Cameron want to hold a referendum. Alex Salmond wants a referendum because he wants to leave the UK so someone must want to leave the EU to be wanting to hold a referendum.
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MatureStudent36
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#1748
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#1748
(Original post by dixie2013)
If they don't want to leave why does Mr Cameron want to hold a referendum. Alex Salmond wants a referendum because he wants to leave the UK so someone must want to leave the EU to be wanting to hold a referendum.
Yet the PM has said he'll argue against the UK leaving the EU but he'll still offer a referendum. Now that's democracy. It's also an effective way of keeping teh Eurosceptics quite.

More worrigly though, why isn't Alex Salmond offering us a referendum on being in the EU?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...p-8515761.html
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dixie2013
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#1749
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#1749
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
We're treated equally.
Even you cant seriously believe that. Ive gave you examples of things that you haven't disputed that proves we are not treated equally.

(Original post by MatureStudent36)
More worrigly though, why isn't Alex Salmond offering us a referendum on being in the EU?
How can he if Scotland is part of the UK. I the UK leaves the EU so does Scotland whilst being part of the UK. Maybe he will if Scotland becomes Independent, He hasn't said He will but he hasn't said he wont. I cant answer that.
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MatureStudent36
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#1750
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#1750
(Original post by dixie2013)
Even you cant seriously believe that. Ive gave you examples of things that you haven't disputed that proves we are not treated equally.
No you haven't. You've cut and pasted propoganda.

You've mentioned the bedroom tax......which affects everybody throughout the UK. So unless you can demonstrate how Scotland gets treated differently, other than a devolved Parliament and a bigger per Capita spending than the rest of the UK, I do believe you are promoting a victim status. And we're definitly not victims.
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dixie2013
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#1751
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#1751
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I'm sure Nobody in Norflok or the Home counties wanted the V force based there but they got it. Trident's a follow on from Polaris, so guess what. It'll be based where it is....You may have missed the concerns from the Unions representing the workers there. But hey how. We'll just sacrifice jobs for an ideal. Most people don't care about trident. It's the economy, pensions etc that impact most peoples lives. So you'll exscuse me for ignoring that comment as even without Trident on the Clyde, we still get cover from a Nuclear Subamrine armed with ICBMs even if it;s in are name or not.

Incidentally, yo useem to have forgit that the SNP have been quite vocal in Trident NOT being mainitained in Scotland.

Huge area's of the UK didn't vote for the bedroom tax but got it. I didn't vote for an SNP government in Holyrood, but I got it. I don't particularly want to pay for free prescriptions for those who can afford to pay for it.But that's democracy.

Scotland got a government that it voted in a democracic election. Please remember that 12 of our 59 Constinturencies have got the government that they voted for. The other constinuencies will most likely get a government they voted for next time in the General election. Once again. Democracy.
Scotland got the government it voted for by majority is Fair, England getting who they voted for is fair but unfortunately like i said it doesnt matter in any shape or form what Scotland votes in a UK election. We get stuck with what other parts of the UK vote for.

Back to trident, i personally don't want anything to do with weapons of mass destruction. Scotland didn't want it. If their was a vote in Scotland to remove it, im sure it would be YES. Now you talk about the V force. Its in England, they voted for the UK Government when their votes counted. So they got what they voted for basically.
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MatureStudent36
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#1752
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#1752
(Original post by dixie2013)
Scotland got the government it voted for by majority is Fair, England getting who they voted for is fair but unfortunately like i said it doesnt matter in any shape or form what Scotland votes in a UK election. We get stuck with what other parts of the UK vote for.

Back to trident, i personally don't want anything to do with weapons of mass destruction. Scotland didn't want it. If their was a vote in Scotland to remove it, im sure it would be YES. Now you talk about the V force. Its in England, they voted for the UK Government when their votes counted. So they got what they voted for basically.
We got who we voted for in Westminster? You're promoting Anarchy in that case if we only get ruled by who we voted for.

As I say. I never voted for the SNP, neither did my constituency. Yet we're stuck with an SNP government. How far down do you want to go with this. Most of us don't want this bloody referendum, but we're stuck with it.

Will your argument go away if Labour are voted in in Westminster? After all, Labour is the dominant Scottish Party at Westminster.

You may personally not want to have anything to do with Trident. I personally don't want to have to pay taxes to keep somebody on benefits such as working people who have to stay at home to look after sick partners. But I do, and I will continue to. Why? It's a necessary part of society. Just as defence is. There are things in this world that many of us may not like, but they have to happen.
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dixie2013
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#1753
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#1753
My argument will go away when Scotland say actually counted for something. Scotland needs to be Independant but remain friends as the Uk will need Scotland as much as Scotland will need the UK.
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dixie2013
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#1754
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#1754
You do realize this argument will never end. I have a Nationalist view, you have a Unionist view.
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MatureStudent36
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#1755
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#1755
(Original post by dixie2013)
My argument will go away when Scotland say actually counted for something. Scotland needs to be Independant but remain friends as the Uk will need Scotland as much as Scotland will need the UK.

I truly fear that that won't happen when people see the bill for the divorce just so a minority of people can feel better about themselves.

And the problem won't go away will it. We're now starting to See the Islands questions their future and their oil. It's the major, obvious and inevitable side of identity politics.

And I don't consider myself as a Unionist. Neither do any of my friends or family. We consider ourselves British & Scottish, as that's what we all are. (At the moment and likely to be for the future) Just as I know many British & Welsh, British and Yorkshire, British and Black, British and Gay, British and Disabled.
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dixie2013
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#1756
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#1756
What? You don't agree with a 25 year old having a brain enuerism and nearly dying, having to learn how to talk and walk again, who still cant move her right arm anymore and only have 50% use of her right leg. And her partner HAVING to leave his job to care for her.

Thats sick. I suppose it would actually have to happen to someone to feel the full implications of something like that.

I dont mind paying taxes for something like that. Fair enough having to pay for lazy buggers sitting on their hole all day claiming every benefit under the sun when they could go out and go to work, yeh thats wrong.

Their are loads of things i don't agree with that tax gets spent on. For example: The Royal family, why should tax payers keep them. The royal family are just a tourist attraction and nothing more.
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MatureStudent36
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#1757
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#1757
(Original post by dixie2013)
What? You don't agree with a 25 year old having a brain enuerism and nearly dying, having to learn how to talk and walk again, who still cant move her right arm anymore and only have 50% use of her right leg. And her partner HAVING to leave his job to care for her.

Thats sick. I suppose it would actually have to happen to someone to feel the full implications of something like that.

I dont mind paying taxes for something like that. Fair enough having to pay for lazy buggers sitting on their hole all day claiming every benefit under the sun when they could go out and go to work, yeh thats wrong.

Their are loads of things i don't agree with that tax gets spent on. For example: The Royal family, why should tax payers keep them. The royal family are just a tourist attraction and nothing more.
Similar has happened to me. It wasn't and anurism and they did die.

So you don't agree with the royal family and yet you're going to keep them in a seperate Scotland?

Or is that another thing we'll decide after the referendum.......currency, EU, NATO, Defence etc etc


I'm merely highlihghting that there are things that happen in the world that are rational to you, but not to others. It's called an opinion
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dixie2013
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#1758
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#1758
So you lost you only source of income?

If Scotland keeps them we aren't exactly losing anything are we. Id be really happy if we didn't have them but its not changing anything keeping them. Just pissing money down the drain having them basically.

Who said things like EU, NATO, Defense etc getting decided after the referendum. I said i welcome all these unanswered questions being answered in the coming months.

Something happen you cant do nothing about but some things you can do something about. I just dont understand why you dont like paying for something that nothing can be done about but dont mind the things that something can be done about.
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MatureStudent36
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#1759
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#1759
(Original post by dixie2013)
So you lost you only source of income?

If Scotland keeps them we aren't exactly losing anything are we. Id be really happy if we didn't have them but its not changing anything keeping them. Just pissing money down the drain having them basically.

Who said things like EU, NATO, Defense etc getting decided after the referendum. I said i welcome all these unanswered questions being answered in the coming months.

Something happen you cant do nothing about but some things you can do something about. I just dont understand why you dont like paying for something that nothing can be done about but dont mind the things that something can be done about.
Family rallied.

We're pissing a small amount of moneydown the drain for security. Some may argue that car insurance is just pissing money down the drain, or buildings and contents insurance.They are merely opinions. The defence issue thuogh tends to be held by people with very little understanding about defence or geo politics. After all. Trident costs the UK £1.3 Billion a year (Of which much is put straight back into the econony as most of it is wages and maintenance.) Defence however is one thing that we can do things about.

Some people say that any form of defence spending is pissing money down the drain. Some people say that welfare spending is pissing money down the drain. Some may even say that the Olympics or the Commonweath games are pissing money down the drain.
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dixie2013
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#1760
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#1760
Well as i am glad your family helped and sorry for you loss. I never had that sort of help. I had to go through the grooling possess of being treated like a common junkie whilst as the job center. Best off it i couldn't get help with money until she came out of hospital 6months later whist i was living on £50pw for me and my 2 sons. good times.

But im glad to be going back to be doing 50+ hours a week as i enjoy working. It gives me the satisfaction of earning my own money and contributing to society.
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