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A child’s life needs to be GOVERNED and CONTROLLED Watch

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    (Original post by Wenger)
    I support what the OP is saying.

    This just boils down to pure ignorance, if we provide a child with intelligence, analytical & logical thinking skills, then the 'correct' way to live i.e. (NOT starring on the Jeremy Kyle show) can be achieved.

    Therefore the returning question to the OP is, how do we incorporate all of which you have stated without 'force' and the human right of 'free will and choice' remaining intact?
    By using the children's curiosity. Don't force them to learn. Show them. You cannot develop valuable critical thinking by trying to force them (or infering) some way. Use their curiosity for warning purposes and let them create their own path.
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    (Original post by lightburns)
    But if you forced me to go to a National Trust place, or a museum, I'd burn it down. Either burn that, or you.

    Controlling a child kills their curiosity.
    Try exposing them to things to encourage interests, but don't force them to.
    At last, something with good sense.
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    (Original post by SoulfulBoy)
    Indoctrination? :eek: Are you insane? Poor children... We should aiming for our children to be educated not indoctrined. Education wich would provide them with critical thinking and thus, being able to cast light upon things and even upon themselves or even you, mother. Indoctrined children will lack critical thinking and their mentality will be limited to that wich they were learnt to be aimed to.
    Indoctrination, as Burger King and Subway is not healthy. At short-term it's fast cheap food. At long-term is basically junk food. Please, don't do it!
    'Indoctrination' was not meant to be taken literally :rolleyes:
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    Agreed, Agreed and Agreed.

    Rather than going to Tesco's at half 10 at night with their jeans half-way down their trousers and no respect for others - just 'good looks' children should be taught how to live decently so that they are respected and also succeed in life. Good looks and expensive clothes aint gonna get you anywhere in life, its all the hard work that pays off..
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    OoOoOoOoOo, hanging around on street corners. This is definitely a new, horrific phenomenon that needs to be crushed immediately! Kids of yesteryear were always in doors listening to the archers and even in victorian times, the poorer children were in ragged unions, keen to learn about good ol' wellington and his mischievous exploits. Seriously though, give a child that much of an oppressive life, and they are likely to be the rebellious youth of the future, writing electronic graffiti denouncing authority as "****" on a hovering statue of Churchill in 2040.
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    (Original post by paki4lyf786)
    Agreed, Agreed and Agreed.

    Rather than going to Tesco's at half 10 at night with their jeans half-way down their trousers and no respect for others - just 'good looks' children should be taught how to live decently so that they are respected and also succeed in life. Good looks and expensive clothes aint gonna get you anywhere in life, its all the hard work that pays off..
    In other words, ask typical asian/paki parents to bring up their kids. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by SoulfulBoy)
    Exaggeration? :confused:
    No.
    The British Empire slaughtered aborigines, indians, native indians, south africans in extreme numbers all in the name of 'ethnic cleansing' during their rule.
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    Though I do agree with the general statement, your argument is completley unrelated. Teaching history is not a suitable method in communicating class and manners to children. History IS part of the school curriculum, something that should be taught primarily in schools but partially by parents to those children who are curious about the past. Moral lessons and a general appriciation of manners can be taught by parents, none of this british heritage palava.

    And, O.P (historical expert), ever heard of the romantic movement? It's a part of british history, F.Y.I. Try telling Wordsworth and Coleridge, and those who preceeded them, that children should be controlled.
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    (Original post by mellie220)
    No.
    The British Empire slaughtered aborigines, indians, native indians, south africans in extreme numbers all in the name of 'ethnic cleansing' during their rule.
    Your right.
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    (Original post by Wedgely)
    Though I do agree with the general statement, your argument is completley unrelated. Teaching history is not a suitable method in communicating class and manners to children. History IS part of the school curriculum, something that should be taught primarily in schools but partially by parents to those children who are curious about the past. Moral lessons and a general appriciation of manners can be taught by parents, none of this british heritage palava.

    And, O.P (historical expert), ever heard of the romantic movement? It's a part of british history, F.Y.I. Try telling Wordsworth and Coleridge, and those who preceeded them, that children should be controlled.
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    It amazes me honestly how people actually agree with whatever the OP posts it's actually mind boggling.

    Yes children need to be taught and I do agree with those saying it's the parents responsability, my father worked 12 hour shifts for minimum wage when I was young and my mam worked part time so that we had income and we were always taken to museums, art galleries and libraries and some of my happiest memories are based on those days and if we were really lucky and could afford it we were taken to Beamish! which kids love, it makes history fun, thats the point you're missing though OP you can't take all 5 year olds round museums and especially not stately homes but you have to make education fun for them. They're not old enough to wonder around rooms of castles looking at pretty pictures or neatly set out tables, you have to make history come alive for them.

    Thats why I love living in the North East nearly all museums and art galleries are free here, and I feel sorry for those who live down south and have to pay it's ridiculous. If you want to change something change this it means those who can't afford it will be able to and they can not only educate there children but themselves.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    I know not everyone has the same tihng I have, but I've never met someone who doesn't have a car. :confused: Apart from homeless people.
    I know someone has already corrected you,but still. I never had a car growing up, i was never taken to stately homes, although i got to go to the Ulster Museum quite a few times because it was only a mile or so walk.

    But i agree with the reading part, although we were very poor and my mother was disabled (hence not being able to drive,never mind afford a car) my mum used to read to me every night, and dad used to buy me second hand books, i remember getting my first copy of lord of the rings when i was around 8ish and me and my dad reading it together.

    I obviously won't be teaching my child British history so much hehe, but i will try to teach him/her some Irish history, but since i'm in university studying English, i will try to bring them to the likes of Shakespeare, and if they don't enjoy it when they are older, i'm sure they will have other talents and pursuits other than history or literature.

    Just remember, not everyone has it well off, the idea of going off for picnics in Belfast where i was brought up,and am still living in, was not common. Many people i knew didn't have cars for one reason or another, and even getting to the zoo was two bus rides haha.
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    It sounds a bit, well, authoritarian to force children to go to the sort of "class" boot camp you propose. Do you seriously think that 5 year olds are going to appreciate what Cromwell did for parliamentarianism? Cromwell is hardly the best role-model for a child anyway is he, or are we now encouraged to murder the Irish again?

    Also, what makes you think that children wouldn't simply rebel against your suggestion, which would cause the opposite, it is fairly well documented that trying to force a person to do something generally encourages the opposite effect and makes them more stubborn in their opposition. You need to rethink your suggestions, just like in your previous thread on Universities.
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    (Original post by SoulfulBoy)
    Your right.
    Also, you only need to look at the most recent wars to see evidence of the most brutal, many would say sickening, treatment of human beings by the so called 'democratic' government of Britain.
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    What the children really need is not class but mental substance. I know a lot of so-called classy kids who are empty headed, joyless little sh*ts cleverly disguised with good manners.
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      (Original post by CountMancula)
      Many youths today are brought up in such a poor fashion. If you were to wander around certain areas, you will see kids hanging out on street corners etc. They all follow the same thing and admire scum celebrities, which in effect, promotes their idea of being a maverick and causing mayhem.

      My idea is to CONTROL what children see and do. I believe it is important that they are exposed to the HISTORY and HERITAGE of Britain. There is a general lack of knowledge when it comes to today’s youth. I am sure you are all familiar with the term: Jeremy Kyle people. This needs to prevented to stop more of them populating.

      When they are young, let’s say 5, the child should have to read the history of Britain. It is important that they’re tarnished with stories about famous citizens, leaders, generals, politicians, etc. Also introduce them to key events and battles.


      Different idols

      This could be nicely incorporated with the National Trust or English Heritage. They offer an array of historic properties and locations up and down the country. Why not force children to visit these places? Let them appreciate class, dignity, heritage and history. Maybe introduce a class camp? The class camp will teach them manners, music, key skills etc.


      Blicking Hall

      By the time the child is a teen, he/she will have a broader knowledge, and hopefully more class. Rather than blasting music out of a mobile phone and drinking white lightening in a park at night, they will realise that their actions are despicable and somewhat animal like.
      I agree with you, my parents more or less done the same thing. They didn't force it on me because I had an interest in History anyway (hence why I'm doing it at uni). I actually admire and are thankful that my parents have taken me and my brothers to national heritage sites and other historical and cultural points of interest, not just here, but in other countries. It really does broaden your mindset on life. I hope to give my children the same experiences that I've been very fortunate to have.
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      (Original post by Charlottie93)
      It amazes me honestly how people actually agree with whatever the OP posts it's actually mind boggling.

      Yes children need to be taught and I do agree with those saying it's the parents responsability, my father worked 12 hour shifts for minimum wage when I was young and my mam worked part time so that we had income and we were always taken to museums, art galleries and libraries and some of my happiest memories are based on those days and if we were really lucky and could afford it we were taken to Beamish! which kids love, it makes history fun, thats the point you're missing though OP you can't take all 5 year olds round museums and especially not stately homes but you have to make education fun for them. They're not old enough to wonder around rooms of castles looking at pretty pictures or neatly set out tables, you have to make history come alive for them.

      Thats why I love living in the North East nearly all museums and art galleries are free here, and I feel sorry for those who live down south and have to pay it's ridiculous. If you want to change something change this it means those who can't afford it will be able to and they can not only educate there children but themselves.
      People agree because it's TRUE. There are not enough controversial issues on here.

      You CAN take children to heritage sites. Bring them up in an environment that praises culture and class. If a family brings up a child as a Roman Catholic, it is likely that he/she will grow up with that religion as part of their life (even if it is minimal). The same idea applies here - Bring them up from a young age and they will develop into classier people when they're older.
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      (Original post by CountMancula)
      People agree because it's TRUE. There are not enough controversial issues on here.

      You CAN take children to heritage sites. Bring them up in an environment that praises culture and class. If a family brings up a child as a Roman Catholic, it is likely that he/she will grow up with that religion as part of their life (even if it is minimal). The same idea applies here - Bring them up from a young age and they will develop into classier people when they're older.
      Controversial isnt the right word.

      I didn't say you couldn't take children to heritage sites I said you can't take ALL children to heritage sites. And if you read my comment you'd have seen that overall I actually agreed with you, its just some of your ideas are a bit to ridiculous for me.
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      (Original post by .Ali.)
      It encourages marriage and two-parent families for one. It gives mothers an incentive to stay off work with their children, and to bring the children up properly.
      That's not really thinking about it, that's just repeating what Tory party HQ says about it. The tax break here is absolutely tiny. It's hardly going to feature in anyone's long-term family plans. It's also not going to stop couples splitting up. And even if it did, it wouldn't be a cost-effective way of doing so. It's not enough to allow either parent to stay off work, and encouraging the mother to stay home is hardly what is needed when women are still significantly under-represented in significant parts of the economy. Nor does a parent have to stay at home to 'bring up the children properly'. It's a completely stupid policy, devoid of any practical utility.


      (Original post by .Ali.)
      People should be self sufficient. Yes, some people need benefits, that is all well and good. There are also people who are riding the dole. The lazy. The workshy. You know who I mean. Jeremy Kyle people, as the OP mentioned. I don't want to work to support them.
      ? Benefits aren't always about unemployment. However, as for the 'lazy and the workshy', i don't think anyone supports just giving them money. But there's no point focussing on such people, because they're such a small minority of those receiving benefits. Everyone supports reforming the system to tidy up the edges. But it's really just tabloid scaremongering to focus on that small group and ignore the majority of people who need, and depend on, these benefits. I'm not sure this really answers my question as to why you think welfare payments create dependency.


      (Original post by .Ali.)
      I was actually quite well-behaved, and my parents always spent time with me. If the child doesn't listen and is illbehaved, then the parents have themselves to blame.

      Given by what you've said in this thread so far, it sounds like you were an only child, brought up somewhere fairly rural with near-constant parental attention. That's fairly rare, and most children are a little more disruptive (from all social classes). You can blame the parents all you want, but there's only so much you can do with your environment.

      (Original post by .Ali.)
      Yes, unfortunately. I haven't discussed those things with them, but I know some of them.
      By 'know', i don't mean 'are aware of'. I mean have you got to know these families intimately, and tried to understand the kind of differences in lifestyle between you and them.



      (Original post by .Ali.)
      You ignored all my points. No, I haven't experienced it, that doesn't make my points less valid. 'Reality' is subjective, isn't it.
      I didn't respond to all your statements specifically because i obviously can't give an explanation that will fit all families. But there are a lot of reasons why parents aren't able to devote the kind of time and energy to their children you think they ought to. My main response is what i've said above; suspend your judgment until you understand the kind of conditions that other people live in. Your judgment, as we've already seen, will depend upon loads of assumptions and misconceptions, even if you don't realise it.
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      (Original post by CountMancula)
      People agree because it's TRUE. There are not enough controversial issues on here.

      You CAN take children to heritage sites. Bring them up in an environment that praises culture and class. If a family brings up a child as a Roman Catholic, it is likely that he/she will grow up with that religion as part of their life (even if it is minimal). The same idea applies here - Bring them up from a young age and they will develop into classier people when they're older.
      Britain will tremble if you happen to be a Prime Minister. Please don't. Poor children. You are quite extreme. Forcing...
     
     
     
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