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    (Original post by twl)
    Can it be called a "Golden Age" though, if it didn't occur at the centre of Islamic power, at the time at which Islamic power was most powerful?
    Much of it did occur within the Islamic Caliphates. I don't really see what your point is.



    (Original post by twl)
    We don't refer to a Christian "Golden Age" even though the renaissance and Enlightenment occurred under Christianity.
    Because, rightly or wrongly, many people see the Enlightenment as having occurred inspite of Christianity. As you said, this is partly due to episodes such as Galileo.



    (Original post by twl)
    In the Jewish world Jews were not really permitted to become philosophers and scientists until the 19th Century as non-Judaistic scholastic practice was frowned upon.

    Karl Marx was among the first Jewish intellectuals. Albert Einstein a big achiever in physics. We don't refer to a Jewish Golden Age, do we?
    Well, Marx was born Christian and became an atheist and according to some is an anti-semite, so I am not sure he would want to be known as part of a Jewish Golden Age.

    I think there is a widespread acknowledgement of the Jewish contribution to the sciences and such. That can be seen through the disproportionate number of Jewish Nobel Prize winners. Perhaps in the future it will be known as such if Jewish people stop making such as contribution, however, I doubt that will happen.
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    (Original post by Jackthevillain)
    Lol it's the left wing sheep with no personal views what do you expect. I also think if we only had central, western and northern european immigration into britainit would be much safer like you wouldn't see black people stabbing people in london or Asians segregating themselves off then calling White people racist.
    Having a strict immigration policy tends to be the hallmark of the socialist parties ( AKA the left).
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    (Original post by Jackthevillain)
    Lol it's the left wing sheep with no personal views what do you expect. I also think if we only had central, western and northern european immigration into britainit would be much safer like you wouldn't see black people stabbing people in london or Asians segregating themselves off then calling White people racist.
    Yeah, because clearly it'd be impossible for someone who disagrees with you to have formed their own opinion. I might be left wing but I'd never be stupid enough to say that all right-wingers are idiots. They just have different opinions to me. An inability to understand opposing viewpoints is the sign of a moron.

    But in other news, you're also wrong on your next point. You seem to be under the impression that if it was just white people living in Britain we'd live in some kind of utopia. You must have a pretty blinkered view of the world if you think that whites are just victims to all the violence caused by others. You might not get stabbing from blacks in your new world, but I bet you'd get a fist full of whites stabbing other whites. Violence exists in every race and culture. I thought that was obvious.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    Peterborough has not always been a ****hole. The scum Labour have attracted and breeded in this country for 13 years made this place a dump. Just look at footage from the 70s, 80s and before that. It was a peaceful market town. The reason this city has so many problems is that the amount of immigrants that are being offloaded here is despicable. It's quite funny, I've had chats with second and third generation Asians here and now they hate the Polish coming in! Years down the line these same Poles will hate Turkish coming in or something along them lines. Force people who have different ways of thinking and morales and there will always be conflict.

    Why do you think no-one ever complains when there's a lot of Australians, Swedish or Danish in on
    e place? It's the simple reason that these people's CULTURES are similar. Many Muslims just don't understand or know how to accept different people. That's why Islam is poisonous I'm afraid.

    You're missing the point. What's the point of bringing up peasantry in the middle-ages? We're in the present. Our culture is of a certain calibre now, based on freedom and rights. Many Islamists are against this ideology so surely you can see there'll be problems?
    yes agre with your point here... it is because they are essentially the same people (australians are essentially british albeit with a history of inhabiting australia for a few generations)...... swedes/danish again similar culture to british..

    There will only be problems if islamists are allowed into power (something which I don't see happening,just as I don't see an extreme right party like the bnp coming into power)

    muslims are generally v.hostpitable folk (muslim countries).... perhaps it is just certain muslims in certian ****ty british towns/cities who are not welcoming of newcomers into the area.
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    (Original post by Jackthevillain)
    Lol it's the left wing sheep with no personal views what do you expect. I also think if we only had central, western and northern european immigration
    World war two was called World war two for a reason. The entire war went to war, and it started within Europe. Europe suffered heavy casualties and every single country within Europe(and that of the USA as well) had to fill vacancies. For Britain, the commonwealth was the place to look as the people from these countries may have seen it as a reward for their bravery and loyalty to the British Empire(2.4 Million Indian volunteer army; 800,000 Muslim)


    (Original post by Jackthevillain)
    into britainit would be much safer like you wouldn't see black people stabbing people in london
    First of all, a lot of Black people have no idea where they're from due to the slave trade. Secondly, these area's were home to football hooligans(White) before it became a predominantly Black area. It was working class then and it was working class now. Poverty fuels crime.

    (Original post by Jackthevillain)
    or Asians segregating themselves off then calling White people racist.
    Lol. They only call people like you racist(as do other White's, Europeans, Americans, Blacks etc...) as you are being racist. It's one thing to argue that we should cap immigration, which is a far point but it's another thing to say "its dose Muslim's innit. Kick out all dem black and browns and we will be rid of the forrins and will be able to solve our problems by printing more money"
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    (Original post by twl)
    Greek thought was clearly important to the philosophers in both regions and in some respects research was done despite of, not because of the prevailing religious environment.
    Europe initially rejected the Greeks until the Islamic Golden age

    (Original post by twl)
    Yes, in the Christian world the Monasteries were centres of research and literature and were important but the institution of the Church resisted much research, famously that of Galileo.
    And Muslim's made the first universities (Jamiah) which were centres of research and literature. They invented soap, made separate wards for separate diseases. They made cheques, beautiful gardens(in Spain) The invented the zero(big achievement) and also algebra. I'm not saying the Christian's didn't do anything however whereas Christian's had monasteries, Muslim had universities.

    (Original post by twl)
    In the Islamic world libraries were burned, and works lost, because fanatics thought the works went against their doctrines.
    And in the Christian world as well. Also one of the reason's for the Golden Age's success was that they compiled different bits of knowledge from around the globe

    (Original post by twl)
    In the Jewish world Jews were not really permitted to become philosophers and scientists until the 19th Century as non-Judaistic scholastic practice was frowned upon.

    Karl Marx was among the first Jewish intellectuals. Albert Einstein a big achiever in physics. We don't refer to a Jewish Golden Age, do we?
    The Jewish inventors did give a lot to us, however they didn't give as much as the Muslim Empire did or the British Empire. In fact, you could say that the British Empire/Industrial Revolution was Britain's golden age
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    Europe initially rejected the Greeks until the Islamic Golden age


    And Muslim's made the first universities (Jamiah) which were centres of research and literature. They invented soap, made separate wards for separate diseases. They made cheques, beautiful gardens(in Spain) The invented the zero(big achievement) and also algebra. I'm not saying the Christian's didn't do anything however whereas Christian's had monasteries, Muslim had universities.


    And in the Christian world as well. Also one of the reason's for the Golden Age's success was that they compiled different bits of knowledge from around the globe



    The Jewish inventors did give a lot to us, however they didn't give as much as the Muslim Empire did or the British Empire. In fact, you could say that the British Empire/Industrial Revolution was Britain's golden age
    See this is what happens when I don't keep updated on things lol
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    Europe initially rejected the Greeks until the Islamic Golden age
    Not true: Saint Augustine, 4th Century.

    Due to geography and history Western Europe didn't have libraries full of Greek text. All the good stuff was in Baghdad, Jerusalem?, Constantinople and Alexandria (Egypt) because nobody had moved the books for yonks - no planes or trucks in those days.That's why that region didn't discuss Greek thought until they gained access to their works after the fall of Constantinople (when precious texts were rescued and sent to Vienna).

    And Muslim's made the first universities (Jamiah) which were centres of research and literature. They invented soap, made separate wards for separate diseases. They made cheques, beautiful gardens(in Spain) The invented the zero(big achievement) and also algebra. I'm not saying the Christian's didn't do anything however whereas Christian's had monasteries, Muslim had universities.
    The Greeks invented the Academy. The West had Monasteries. The zero was invented by the Hindus and Chinese, who passed it on to the Arabs. The scholars who were Islamic (we don't refer to Isaac Newton as a Christian scholar) did make contributions. I think those of Ibn Khaldun were particularly original and significant.

    Not being partisan against the achievements of scholars who were Muslims, some of their work stands against any of Chinese, Western, Indian, Jewish kind, just we should use the phrase Islamic Golden Age with care because it had nothing to do with the religion, and the most interesting thought came from scholars who were not born under a Caliphate/Empire.

    And in the Christian world as well. Also one of the reason's for the Golden Age's success was that they compiled different bits of knowledge from around the globe
    The most famous philosophers - other than translators - were mostly not born under powerful Islamic civilization. Think of Avicenna, Khaldun, Al Farabi, they didn't live under any Caliphate.


    The Jewish inventors did give a lot to us, however they didn't give as much as the Muslim Empire did or the British Empire. In fact, you could say that the British Empire/Industrial Revolution was Britain's golden age
    That's very arguable. They gave us Communist manifesto, Israel, the atomic bomb... the list of modern stuff that Jews advanced is pretty extensive you know. Credit where it's due.
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    (Original post by bunty64)
    muslims are generally v.hostpitable folk (muslim countries).... perhaps it is just certain muslims in certian ****ty british towns/cities who are not welcoming of newcomers into the area.
    Which Muslim countries is this specifically? The ones where Christians have their churches burned or bombed? Or where people are executed for converting out of Islam? Or where women and homosexuals are treated as clear second-class citizens?? Britain isn't perfect, but it's a great deal better than lots of places in the world.
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    What I dont understand is why most muslims live in Britain yet they don't agree the western society
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    (Original post by Benammieh)
    What I dont understand is why most muslims live in Britain yet they don't agree the western society
    Most Muslims agree with western society, but don't like(some) western foreign policy ie: like with Iraq and Afghanistan
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    Most Muslims agree with western society, but don't like(some) western foreign policy ie: like with Iraq and Afghanistan
    Yeah so those who complain should go back. Might be easier said then done but we're kind of sick with all these radical muslims causing trouble!
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    Yes, how dare they be given freedom of speech and right of expression like other extremist groups do
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    Yes, how dare they be given freedom of speech and right of expression like other extremist groups do
    Not all extremist groups most used slogan is "Death to the infidel!"

    Not saying Moderate Muslims don't exist... they do. And they need the extremists dealt with as much as the rest of us.
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    True, however if you ban people who just don't agree with values, then you may as well also ban the EDL and the UAF
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    True, however if you ban people who just don't agree with values, then you may as well also ban the EDL and the UAF
    They don't chant "Death to the infidel". That's a value too "pricey" for most people. If these groups did chant the same, I'm pretty sure we'd kick them out of town as well.
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    whatever, im not a christian but my family came to a christian country with traditions from 2000 years of christianity. i dont want to see it become a muslim country. if the christians become atheists, and celebrate xmas just as a cultural thing - then thats evolution.
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    And what evidence is there that it is becoming a Muslim country? Also, if it does ever become one then the likelihood is that the gov't wil be governed like Turkey, Dubai or Pakistan
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    And what evidence is there that it is becoming a Muslim country? Also, if it does ever become one then the likelihood is that the gov't wil be governed like Turkey, Dubai or Pakistan
    Oh I don't know, Muslim extremists left to preach hatred on the streets of London PROTECTED by police while English protesters are branded racists and arrested. A Church of England school in Blackburn is to become an Islamic faith school as 95% of pupils there are Muslim. Mosques are given preferential treatment over other buildings by planning departments, historic Grade I listed buildings being converted into Islamic boarding schools, Christmas being renamed 'Winterval' in Birmingham to avoid offending the Muslims.

    Seriously, it's obvious we Brits can offend but not be offended, the double standards shown by the Police and government is nothing short of disgraceful. Neg this post all you want but it's true :mad:

    EDIT: Oh yes, the creeping spread of Halal meat in pretty much every supermarket and takeaway and racist Muslim-on-White attacks dismissed as not being racist by the police (oh how different this would be the other way round).
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    (Original post by tc92)
    Which Muslim countries is this specifically? The ones where Christians have their churches burned or bombed? Or where people are executed for converting out of Islam? Or where women and homosexuals are treated as clear second-class citizens?? Britain isn't perfect, but it's a great deal better than lots of places in the world.
    anywhere in the middle east really (I've been to lebanon,turkey,syria.jordan,egyp t). If you travel as a tourist and explore, you'll see that the locals are friendly and hospitable. The whole sharia law we see in our media is an extreme example of the middle east.

    Yes you are right, Britain isn't perfect but it is a great multicultural society where people get along (albeit with the exception of a few).
 
 
 
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