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Are there any truly 'bad' universities in the UK? Watch

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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    Yes - below the top 50 on the league tables. :rolleyes:
    Getting degrees from these places will not help your job prospects in the slightest.
    Anyone who doesn't realise that university is a place where you study freemarket capitalism from the angle of your chosen subject is going to fail and struggle. University is NO place for employees. It's a place for entreprenurs. That's why university is a scam (but with all due respect). These institutions cannot exist unless people are in debt. University is an amazing place though where poor/lower working class people can work their way out of the struggle and gain the knowledge in order to lead their communities out of oppression. You gotta TAKE ADVANTAGE of every opportunity and get everything you're entitled to.

    There are better universities around, but to pass a university off as total crap is just ig'nant and total snobbery.
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    The first person you quoted stated a university which does that - Thames valley. Thames valley has plenty of courses that require 100 Ucas points (DE or EE (at A level) and E (at AS level)) and some courses that require EE (albeit from what I've seen they mostly include a foundation year).
    Oo I see.

    Thanks for that
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    It's also true that the standard of an E grade at A level is well below what a fail used to be. Many A levels are much easier to pass than they used to be.

    Before anyone jumps down my throat about this assertion, it is backed up by evidence from Durham Uni :"One of the key pieces of research comes from academics at Durham University. Reseachers looked, over a period of twenty years at how A-level students scored in an aptitude test which remained unchanged each year, and compared this to the grades students went on to get at A-level.

    The report found that over the course of the study, students went on to get A-level results on average two grades higher than those who got comparable test scores 20 years earlier."

    Going to somewhere like that and having a debt of £40k at the end of it is just stupid in my opinion.

    For example, Unistats' most recent figures show that someone who did Accounting at the University of West London (average entry 160 ucas points) will have a very low chance of getting a "graduate job"-only 10% managed this. Compare this with Warwick, where 80% got graduate jobs (average 470 ucas points.

    I think most people who decide to go to a "university" whose degrees give job prospects like that are either deceiving themselves about what's likely to happen and being stupidly optimistic or are desperate to be able to say they are students at uni and can't face the truth that they have in fact failed.

    The weaker places will have to close down when they don't get enough students prepared to pay £40k to go there.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It has virtually no academic reputation in law
    End of day a degree is a degree. I rather have a degree then not have one. Look at data below, provided by Unistats, you still think Northampton is a bad choice?



    Uni Average UCAS points achieved Sort by % of employed with grad job Sort by % Students satisfied


    THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTHAMPTON 220 45% 89%

    NOTTINGHAM TRENT UNIVERSITY 300 47% Not enough data

    UNIVERSITY OF LINCOLN 275 40% 89%

    KEELE UNIVERSITY 310 35% 89%

    OXFORD BROOKES UNIVERSITY 340 40% 85%

    UNIVERSITY OF WARWICK 465 55% 90%
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    (Original post by SuperStarr1)
    Oo I see.

    Thanks for that
    Oxbridge are an obvious exception to the rule that he presented. Basing your argument on the fact that they give out EE offers is pointless.
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    (Original post by Swimmer)
    End of day a degree is a degree. I rather have a degree then not have one.
    It really isn't. There's a reason why top employers screen candidates and select campuses to target based on university name alone.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    It really isn't. There's a reason why top employers screen candidates and select campuses to target based on university name alone.
    They tend to pick the big universities for that, not necessarily the outstanding ones - Manchester has proven most popular - or if they're in a field only one or two unis do degrees in, they'll target those. For example, I imagine most breweries looking for graduates go to Heriot Watt.
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    (Original post by colin4president)
    so yes, if you do a traditional subject at a non traditional uni, then you're on a poor university course.
    Polys have always offered 'traditional' subjects such as law and many science courses. Trent polytechnic for example had a very good reputation for law, therefore I don't really think that is a correct distinction.

    I think you are absolutely right that the former polytechnics are leading the way in creative courses such as graphic design, computer game design and fashion. However, I really can't see why there is a need to class these as different qualifications to a degree. Learning these things takes a long time and a lot of effort and I see no reason why people should not be granted a BA at the end. I think there is an argument that universities offer too many subjects at degree and do not facilitate vocational subjects which could be taught for a shorter time at less expense (for example hotel management), but I don't think it should be assumed that all creative subjects should be taught in this way.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    It really isn't. There's a reason why top employers screen candidates and select campuses to target based on university name alone.
    Look at my edited post above again.
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    (Original post by tillytots)
    One of the best replies on here and one I agree with. Everyone laughs at my brother for having a degree in media at Plymouth, yet he earned 35k in his first year after graduation and is now on something like 70k at 28, bought his first house at 24. Your prospects are created yourself, my mum owns a bloody restaurant and about 70 % of the people who ask her for a waitering job are from top unis like Bath, Manchester and Bristol and all can't find a job better than that because they never bothered with any sort of internships and experience at uni and believed that just 'cuz they got a degree from a good university, they're guaranteed at 30k + salary straight out. It's ridiculous, uni really doesn't get you everything, especially in the current situation.
    Yes and no. While internships and experience help for getting a grad job, top employers, even when hiring interns, screen candidates based on university name(or at least deduct points off their application) and target the top 20 for internships and placement programmes; the university you study at does influence what doors open for you and the calibre of the people you are getting to work with. While it is possible that you get a top job with sufficient experience and extra-curriculars on your CV, the university name will be a hindrance where a candidate with the same experience etc but from a top 20 university will be more likely to get the job.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    Yes and no. While internships and experience help for getting a grad job, top employers, even when hiring interns, screen candidates based on university name(or at least deduct points off their application) and target the top 20 for internships and placement programmes; the university you study at does influence what doors open for you and the calibre of the people you are getting to work with. While it is possible that you get a top job with sufficient experience and extra-curriculars on your CV, the university name will be a hindrance where a candidate with the same experience etc but from a top 20 university will be more likely to get the job.
    My friend was battling out for a job with 3 Oxbridge graduates, he managed to secure the training contract at the age of 18 with 3 C's at A Level.
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    (Original post by TheSownRose)
    They tend to pick the big universities for that, not necessarily the outstanding ones - Manchester has proven most popular - or if they're in a field only one or two unis do degrees in, they'll target those. For example, I imagine most breweries looking for graduates go to Heriot Watt.
    I was talking not about the sheer number of top employers, but more the concentration. LSE is a smaller university, yet all the IBs target it over Manchester. How many FTSE 100 employers recruit from Edinburgh as opposed to Heriot Watt? How many will hold presentations etc in Oxford Brookes as opposed to Oxford? That was my point, that a degree from the bottom end of the table is not the same as one from the top. Where the gap itself is quite narrow and the major differences are to do with size or subject specialization, this won't be that big a factor.
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    (Original post by Swimmer)
    My friend was battling out for a job with 3 Oxbridge graduates, he managed to secure the training contract at the age of 18 with 3 C's at A Level.
    An anecdote is not statistical evidence. Major firms taking 5 points off your application because you are not from one of their target universities and visiting Oxbridge over Oxford Brookes is.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    I was talking not about the sheer number of top employers, but more the concentration. LSE is a smaller university, yet all the IBs target it over Manchester. How many FTSE 100 employers recruit from Edinburgh as opposed to Heriot Watt? How many will hold presentations etc in Oxford Brookes as opposed to Oxford? That was my point, that a degree from the bottom end of the table is not the same as one from the top. Where the gap itself is quite narrow and the major differences are to do with size or subject specialization, this won't be that big a factor.
    Don't have a clue, I got out of that world a couple of years ago.

    But I apologise, I didn't see the word 'top' in your original post. The more competitive the career, like IB or top solicitors, the more they look at the top. But for most jobs, uni rep doesn't matter.

    And there's nothing to say Swimmer wants to go into a competitive field.
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    (Original post by Swimmer)
    End of day a degree is a degree. I rather have a degree then not have one. Look at data below, provided by Unistats, you still think Northampton is a bad choice?



    Uni Average UCAS points achieved Sort by % of employed with grad job Sort by % Students satisfied


    THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTHAMPTON 220 45% 89%

    NOTTINGHAM TRENT UNIVERSITY 300 47% Not enough data

    UNIVERSITY OF LINCOLN 275 40% 89%

    KEELE UNIVERSITY 310 35% 89%

    OXFORD BROOKES UNIVERSITY 340 40% 85%

    UNIVERSITY OF WARWICK 465 55% 90%
    You do realise that a "grad job" includes both someone on 18k an year at a 10 person IT firm in Scotland and the guy on 30k an year with Google? This is a much better indicator of actual job prospects.
    http://www.highfliers.co.uk/download...teMarket09.pdf
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    How many FTSE 100 employers recruit from Edinburgh as opposed to Heriot Watt?
    Those that are in the oil & gas or engineering related industries much prefer Heriot Watt over Edinburgh (this is also true for Strathclyde and Glasgow). Keep in mind that Heriot Watt is only a small university with a limited number of degrees available. It does what it's meant to do very well, and its engineering reputation in Scotland is far above that of Edinburgh.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    I was talking not about the sheer number of top employers, but more the concentration. LSE is a smaller university, yet all the IBs target it over Manchester. How many FTSE 100 employers recruit from Edinburgh as opposed to Heriot Watt? How many will hold presentations etc in Oxford Brookes as opposed to Oxford? That was my point, that a degree from the bottom end of the table is not the same as one from the top. Where the gap itself is quite narrow and the major differences are to do with size or subject specialization, this won't be that big a factor.
    I know for a fact HSBC held an employment presentation at Oxford Brookes this year. Admittedly, you are more likely to get employed by them if you go to Oxford proper but it is naive to say that employers simply overlook lower ranked universities.

    This is really the problem, people tend to measure the employment prospect of universities by how many people go into IB, Ernst & Young, PwC et al, rather than examining the other areas that graduates go on to do well in and how having a degree affects their long term career prospects. For example, the university of Abertay Dundee runs one of the best Computer game design courses in the country with better employment prospects than most computer science degrees, yet it is still classed as a 'bad university'.

    I think the way we measure the importance of a degree is flawed and it is annoying that there is so little academic research on the matter.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Those that are in the oil & gas or engineering related industries much prefer Heriot Watt over Edinburgh (this is also true for Strathclyde and Glasgow). Keep in mind that Heriot Watt is only a small university with a limited number of degrees available. It does what it's meant to do very well, and its engineering reputation in Scotland is far above that of Edinburgh.
    This is the equivalent of saying because Abertay Dundee has a better reputation amongst gaming companies than Edinburgh or Glasgow it offers better career prospects in general. Assuming that a higher percentage of Edinburgh engineering grads aren't just going into other highly paying sectors (like IB), Heriot Watt may be good for someone wanting to go into an engineering job (and even that seems debatable if the list of places visiting both universities is anything to go by), but overall which has the better reputation amongst the top employers?
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    (Original post by Swimmer)
    End of day a degree is a degree. I rather have a degree then not have one. Look at data below, provided by Unistats, you still think Northampton is a bad choice?



    Uni Average UCAS points achieved Sort by % of employed with grad job Sort by % Students satisfied


    THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTHAMPTON 220 45% 89%

    NOTTINGHAM TRENT UNIVERSITY 300 47% Not enough data

    UNIVERSITY OF LINCOLN 275 40% 89%

    KEELE UNIVERSITY 310 35% 89%

    OXFORD BROOKES UNIVERSITY 340 40% 85%

    UNIVERSITY OF WARWICK 465 55% 90%
    I don't know when the satisfaction stats are collected-presumably at the end of the course and before the reality of unemployment has kicked in.I don't understand why someone would be satisfied when they're unemployed or working in a supermarket stacking shelves when they've graduated in Law and ended up with a long term debt of 20k.According to the figures you've quoted, two thirds of Law graduates at Keele didn't get graduate jobs. I don't know which year these stats are for, but I suppose they aren't completely up to date-are they for 2009?If so, things will be worse now.
    It's true that some people will be better off with a degree but a lot - it looks like more than half- won't be better off.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    You do realise that a "grad job" includes both someone on 18k an year at a 10 person IT firm in Scotland and the guy on 30k an year with Google? This is a much better indicator of actual job prospects.
    http://www.highfliers.co.uk/download...teMarket09.pdf
    I do realise that ofcourse. In current climate any job in your profession after grad is good.
 
 
 
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