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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    Nope given the fact that most would be thinking about general prestige and not limiting it to one subject and how do you define what university has the best medical school?
    Because I figured that some people on here were medics and knew about it. Other example then, take Chicago, no one had mentioned them (for the first few pages), when in fact they are one of the best universities in the US.
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    (Original post by danny111)
    Because I figured that some people on here were medics and knew about it. Other example then, take Chicago, no one had mentioned them (for the first few pages), when in fact they are one of the best universities in the US.
    True! But as I said a few pages back, prejudiced against an American writing their admissions essay on a British export (namely, Doctor Who).
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    Harvard
    MIT
    Yale
    John Hopkins
    Pennsylvania
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    Harvard
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    Princeton
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    (Original post by Slick 'n' Shady)
    If someone was to ask you to name 5 US universities that you think are some of the best, what would you say?
    Harvard
    Yale
    Princeton
    Columbia
    Brown
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    (Original post by Annoying-Mouse)
    Nope given the fact that most would be thinking about general prestige and not limiting it to one subject and how do you define what university has the best medical school?
    Well it depends. As a medical student you aren't going to consider the London School of Economics or Princeton as one of your destinations are you?

    General prestige is rather subjective. If you're basing it on research output then Johns Hopkins is right up there, infact I think it's the most cited institution in research papers worldwide.

    If we want to pick a specific top 5 based on "prestige" then we need to define the term. Are we talking about standard of undergraduate education, postgrad education, research output, citations, the number of Nobel Prize winners associated with them, the number of US Presidents or UK PMs they've produced?

    I had never heard of the likes of Stanford, Berkley, Caltech, USC until I came onto TSR. For me when I think of US universities, the first ones that spring to my mind are the Ivy League Universities, MIT and Johns Hopkins because of my link with Medicine.

    That's not to say that I perceive the Ivy League institutions as the gold standard of US universities. There are many US and international institutions that based on rankings you'd place above say Brown or Dartmouth. However, the Ivy League institutions have a long and distinguished history and are synonymous with high academic standards (and sport) hence why they will always be held in high regard, irrespective of the numerous league tables you have.

    I mean the THES would rate Manchester as top 40 in the world based on research output but in terms of academic standards, entry standards and undergraduate education quality and national rankings, it struggles to make the top 30 nevermind the top 20 or top 10.
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    (Original post by Malcolm-X)
    That's not to say that I perceive the Ivy League institutions as the gold standard of US universities.
    They are to be fair and not just for the US, but gold standards for universities in the world.
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    (Original post by manchild007)
    They are to be fair and not just for the US, but gold standards for universities in the world.
    HYPC, yes. I can see Brown/Cornell/Penn close to the gold standard, but certainly not on par with Oxbridge and Harvard. But I certainly can't see Dartmouth there.
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    (Original post by Malcolm-X)
    Well it depends. As a medical student you aren't going to consider the London School of Economics or Princeton as one of your destinations are you?

    General prestige is rather subjective. If you're basing it on research output then Johns Hopkins is right up there, infact I think it's the most cited institution in research papers worldwide.

    If we want to pick a specific top 5 based on "prestige" then we need to define the term. Are we talking about standard of undergraduate education, postgrad education, research output, citations, the number of Nobel Prize winners associated with them, the number of US Presidents or UK PMs they've produced?

    I had never heard of the likes of Stanford, Berkley, Caltech, USC until I came onto TSR. For me when I think of US universities, the first ones that spring to my mind are the Ivy League Universities, MIT and Johns Hopkins because of my link with Medicine.

    That's not to say that I perceive the Ivy League institutions as the gold standard of US universities. There are many US and international institutions that based on rankings you'd place above say Brown or Dartmouth. However, the Ivy League institutions have a long and distinguished history and are synonymous with high academic standards (and sport) hence why they will always be held in high regard, irrespective of the numerous league tables you have.

    I mean the THES would rate Manchester as top 40 in the world based on research output but in terms of academic standards, entry standards and undergraduate education quality and national rankings, it struggles to make the top 30 nevermind the top 20 or top 10.
    lol
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    (Original post by manchild007)
    They are to be fair and not just for the US, but gold standards for universities in the world.
    I'd say for the world, well English-speaking world, Oxford and Cambridge very much set the benchmark.

    I wouldn't say that all 8 of the Ivy Leagues are the 8 best universities in the world as there are many I would rate above the likes of Dartmouth and Brown in terms of research outpute.

    However when I'm told about Dartmouth and Brown, ideas of academic excellence and prestige spring to mind, irrespective of their standings in the research tables. That's a reputation made over hundreds of years. A lot of universities in the rankings built their reputation in recent decades by improving their research output and entry standards. Dartmouth and Brown occupy a high level (rightly or wrongly) by virtue of the fact they are part of the Ivy League and amongst the oldest and most famous universities in America.

    I mean I'm looking into electives abroad and I'm keen on either University of Tokyo in Japan or going to the USA. As far as the USA is concerned, my first choice would be one of the Ivies or Johns Hopkins. Personally I have a liking towards Dartmouth. Sure it may not have the long list of Nobel Prize winners or US Presidents or British PMs like say Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge, but it's still a very very good university and I'd jump at the chance to spend a few months there on an elective exchange.

    Going back to the "gold standard", I don't think anywhere else in the world can match the history, prestige and sheer grandeur of Oxford and Cambridge. Infact it was their alumni that founded most of the Ivy League institutions. Harvard may be top of rankings purely because it has the financial clout but in terms of grandeur, it doesn't come anywhere close to Oxford or Cambridge. They're the two oldest institutions in the English-speaking world and have for almost a 1000 years set the standard and no doubt they'll continue to do so.
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    (Original post by Malcolm-X)
    I'd say for the world, well English-speaking world, Oxford and Cambridge very much set the benchmark.

    I wouldn't say that all 8 of the Ivy Leagues are the 8 best universities in the world as there are many I would rate above the likes of Dartmouth and Brown in terms of research outpute.

    However when I'm told about Dartmouth and Brown, ideas of academic excellence and prestige spring to mind, irrespective of their standings in the research tables. That's a reputation made over hundreds of years. A lot of universities in the rankings built their reputation in recent decades by improving their research output and entry standards. Dartmouth and Brown occupy a high level (rightly or wrongly) by virtue of the fact they are part of the Ivy League and amongst the oldest and most famous universities in America.

    I mean I'm looking into electives abroad and I'm keen on either University of Tokyo in Japan or going to the USA. As far as the USA is concerned, my first choice would be one of the Ivies or Johns Hopkins. Personally I have a liking towards Dartmouth. Sure it may not have the long list of Nobel Prize winners or US Presidents or British PMs like say Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge, but it's still a very very good university and I'd jump at the chance to spend a few months there on an elective exchange.

    Going back to the "gold standard", I don't think anywhere else in the world can match the history, prestige and sheer grandeur of Oxford and Cambridge. Infact it was their alumni that founded most of the Ivy League institutions. Harvard may be top of rankings purely because it has the financial clout but in terms of grandeur, it doesn't come anywhere close to Oxford or Cambridge. They're the two oldest institutions in the English-speaking world and have for almost a 1000 years set the standard and no doubt they'll continue to do so.
    Its funny bc here in the US (geographic dependent), the ivy league (as a whole) certainly doesn't have as much bearing as it does internationally. It certainly isn't Ivy League AND then the rest of US unis--like this thread seems to suggest. HYP and MIT is going to be about the best in the US. Its numbers 4-15 that differ depending on region.

    In Cali (pretty much anywhere west really). HYP/MIT then Stanford-Berkeley-Cal Tech. Berkeley and Cal Tech has more prestige than Cornell/Brown/Dartmouth. Your less likely to see people go to Penn and Columbia, as these kids are more likely to go Stanford or Berkeley. UCLA is on par with CBD. USC would fall behind UCLA and CBD.

    In the southeast I find that Emory/Vanderbilt/Virginia/Wake Forest/Duke commands more respect than Cornell/Brown/Dartmouth. A fair amount of kids from the southeast go to Penn and it probably commands equal respect (or a tad more) to those who go to Vanderbilt/Emory/Virignia/Wake Forest/Duke. Cal Tech is virtually unheard of in the southeast. Stanford and Columbia would be right behind HYP and MIT.

    In the Northeast...HYP/MIT-Columbia-Penn-Brown-Cornell. Stanford would be somewhere in between there, along with Chicago. These two would probably be right behind Penn. Berkeley would probably fall behind all of those. Dartmouth commands the least respect out of the ivys, and would be on line with Northwestern, JHU, etc.

    The midwest would be a combination of the Northeast's perception and the West's perception...one more than the other depending which side of the midwest.
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    (Original post by Malcolm-X)
    I'd say for the world, well English-speaking world, Oxford and Cambridge very much set the benchmark.
    By Ivy League I really meant HYP, which are wholly better regarded than Oxbridge around the world in my experience - HYP for me set the gold standard, with Oxbridge following.

    Harvard of course being the ultimate holy grail (Oxbridge doesn't even compare to it in my view).
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    (Original post by manchild007)
    By Ivy League I really meant HYP, which are wholly better regarded than Oxbridge around the world in my experience - HYP for me set the gold standard, with Oxbridge following.

    Harvard of course being the ultimate holy grail (Oxbridge doesn't even compare to it in my view).
    So on what basis have you reached that judgement? If anything I'd think Oxbridge have a greater amount of international prestige certainly more so in Asia than for the Ivy Leagues.

    And to say that Oxbridge don't even compare to Harvard, well that's just silly. Hasn't Cambridge graduated more Nobel Laureates than any other university in the world?
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    (Original post by Malcolm-X)
    ….

    Well what made you reach the judgement that Oxbridge is the gold standard then? That's just silly. As for Asia, as someone who has been born and raised in the region, the Ivy League has a much greater reputation - i.e. its seen as the pinnacle of education. Its one of the things I hate about my culture (i.e. the need to one-up the next person), but when a parent goes "My child got into HYP", that pretty much trumps "My child got into Oxbridge" any time, as the latter isn't as well regarded (relatively speaking of course).

    Harvard has been ranked internationally as the best university in the world, more times than any university (be that Oxbridge, Yale, Princeton etc) - league tables, despite their foibles, are really the only objective measure we have. In which case Harvard >> Oxbridge

    Oh and regarding Nobels, considering Cambridge has a couple of hundred years head start on HYP, its only expected they found their footing earlier on, so thats hardly a fair/objective measure now is it :rolleyes:
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    Harvard
    Yale
    Brown
    Princeton
    Wharton
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    Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Columbia, Princeton.
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    (Original post by Malcolm-X)
    So on what basis have you reached that judgement? If anything I'd think Oxbridge have a greater amount of international prestige certainly more so in Asia than for the Ivy Leagues.

    And to say that Oxbridge don't even compare to Harvard, well that's just silly. Hasn't Cambridge graduated more Nobel Laureates than any other university in the world?
    I agree with this.
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    (Original post by manchild007)
    Well what made you reach the judgement that Oxbridge is the gold standard then? That's just silly. As for Asia, as someone who has been born and raised in the region, the Ivy League has a much greater reputation - i.e. its seen as the pinnacle of education. Its one of the things I hate about my culture (i.e. the need to one-up the next person), but when a parent goes "My child got into HYP", that pretty much trumps "My child got into Oxbridge" any time, as the latter isn't as well regarded (relatively speaking of course).

    Harvard has been ranked internationally as the best university in the world, more times than any university (be that Oxbridge, Yale, Princeton etc) - league tables, despite their foibles, are really the only objective measure we have. In which case Harvard >> Oxbridge

    Oh and regarding Nobels, considering Cambridge has a couple of hundred years head start on HYP, its only expected they found their footing earlier on, so thats hardly a fair/objective measure now is it :rolleyes:
    With all due respect, I don't think your personal experience of growing up in an Asian household and your ideas of trying to score one over your peers is any means to rank Harvard above Oxbridge. Cambridge was recently ranked as the top University in the world by some ranking system THES or the Shanghai one, I'm not 100% sure.

    Oxbridge ok by virtue of them being founded some 1000 years ago, are more deeply entrenched in world history and at the forefront of scientific development especially in medicine (discovery of circulation, structure of DNA to name but a few) and probably have a longer line of distinguished alumni across all corners of the world than say Harvard which in fairness has (for obvious reasons) had more of an impact on history in the United States than beyond it's borders.

    And if anyone would even think that HYP somehow "trumps" getting into Oxbridge bearing in mind they're as competitive as each other (Oxbridge possibly more so), then perhaps they've been inhaling too much helium or just plain stupid? So I'm guessing the long line of graduates from Oxbridge some who made an impact on Science and History were somewhat vastly inferior because they didn't board a flight across the Atlantic to study at HYP?

    Also Princeton doesn't even have academic departments in any of the Health Sciences (which is quite an important field) nor does it have an MBA programme i.e. seems to lack some major professional departments compared to Harvard, Cornell or even Oxbridge.

    Not that I'm knocking Princeton. It just strikes me as more of a "feeder school" i.e. good students will go there to do their bachelors before progressing onto a graduate course at somewhere like Harvard or Yale.

    Not that I'm saying just because it doesn't have a medical school doesn't mean it's any good. You'd be hard pressed to find a medical student who'd say Princeton would be better than Cambridge.

    Oxbridge set the standard for the Ivies to follow and sure they may have done well but they certainly don't come close to matching the sheer prestige and grandeur of those two.

    You say you know the Asian clique, well being Asian myself as far as Indian and Hong Kon culture are concerned, I'd say Oxbridge is definately held in much higher regard. Also the British Higher Education system is more internationally diverse than its American counterpart which I've found to be very isolated to those from outside North America.

    Oxbridge certainly left a far greater mark in history than Harvard or Yale could ever claim to have. Heck they pretty much defined "elitism".
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    (Original post by adam0311)
    I agree with this.
    Finally something we agree on.

    Off the topic but strictly speaking if we were to consider the University of London as one institution, then it would probably come out on top in every single field it was eligible for. I mean when you combine the prowess of the likes of UCL, KCL and LSE amongst others, surely you can't lose?

    I mean Imperial were once part of the family but then got too big for its boots and decided to start a family of its own.
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    (Original post by Malcolm-X)
    With all due respect, I don't think your personal experience of growing up in an Asian household and your ideas of trying to score one over your peers is any means to rank Harvard above Oxbridge. Cambridge was recently ranked as the top University in the world by some ranking system THES or the Shanghai one, I'm not 100% sure.".
    The fact that you've even made such a ridiculous judgement is laughable - so much so, that I honestly don't know why I should waste time in replying to you, when you accuse others of subjective opinions when you yourself make such moronic statements yourself (i.e. based in no fact). I mean you discount my actual experience in Asia, but then say in your previous post "if anything Oxbridge is better regarded in Asia" which has no basis whatsoever - make up your mind for god's sake, if don't wish to consider subjective statements, don't make them yourself (99% of your posts are full of them) :rolleyes:

    Thus I'll focus on the objective. The one league table that ranked Cambridge over Harvard was the THES - it was for the first ever they did this, and it was down to a methodology change. They are the only league table in the world which uses this methodology and as a result, their major partner in the league tables walked out in protest/rejection of such a flawed method. It was a well documented spat.

    Every other league table in the world ranks Harvard >>> Oxbridge. Moreover, despite its shorter history, Harvard has been ranked the best university in the world, more times than any other.

    Period.
 
 
 
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