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    (Original post by TheJ0ker)
    I'd agree that taekwondo is more of a performance martial art but I don't understand why you are so vehemently against that? Performance martial arts look the best and are often the most fun. I used to do both thai boxing and XMA, I still do XMA because it looks ****in awesome but I got bored of thai boxing fairly quickly.

    And I think that two guys rolling around on the floor together is a tad gay, but thats just me.
    That's a shame - Muay Thai is the real deal. I wouldn't care if they didn't tout what they were doing as actual fighting, but they do - just look how aggressively Indo-Chinese Food defended patty cake Wing Chun as a strong fighting system when it has consistently been skull-****ed by every other martial art it has been tried against.

    Don't you think we'd all be rolling around with boners if we got off on it? :rolleyes: The fact is if you want to nullify someone's striking then grappling is the way to do it.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    Of course there are inferior martial arts - style versus style competition has proven this; some work consistently and others fail consistently. Would you also say that no food is better than anything other food; is a nice, juicy steak not better than a tinned hotdog? MAs are a product being sold just like food. The idea that martial arts are above criticism or comparison is completely false.
    Thank you for saying this lol.

    I get really sick of people who say that all martial arts are equal etc.

    That said, I don't think it's as clear cut as 'this is better than this'. I think you could make the argument that every (to a point) martial art has something to offer in terms of practicality. For example, you brought up TKD (or someone else did, whatever). By itself, TKD is not particularly useful... but some of their kicks are absolutely fantastic. The important thing is to make sure that you aren't using solely TKD or you'll get knocked out lol. I've trained with TKD black belts and their side kicks/spin kicks etc. are very effective, the problem is just that they don't have all of the important things down (this is kickboxing btw). It's like when GSP said Joe Rogan had the best spinning side kick he'd ever seen. Karate by itself is dangerous to use as a pure style but you can't deny that it gives you a lot of speed and precision (just look at Lyoto Machida, and I guess to an extent GSP).

    I don't think any one martial art is the best. What MMA has shown (especially recently) is that the combination of martial arts is the most important thing. For example, Nick Diaz has really really good BJJ and so he can use his unique (well... Nate uses it as well) boxing style which others wouldn't be able to do. It's also about changing your style to match the style of your opponent. For example... I would say that Sonnen could beat Silva (and for the sake of the argument you're going to agree >_>) but Damien Maia easily beat Sonnen and Silva easily beat Maia. It's not because any of them are necessarily 'the best', it's just that their styles work against each other differently. The best fighters are those who can change their style for each fight... GSP is a good example of one of these smart fighters who knows how to fight against each opponent differently.


    (Original post by TheJ0ker)
    It's pretty funny that you have such a narrow view of martial arts...

    To me things like BJJ or any other grappling martial arts look a tad boring and also a tad gay even though I know they are good for beating the crap out of people lol.
    ok... anyway, grappling martial arts aren't 'gay' and they're not boring either. I've rolled with some guys and had amazing scrambles that have me grinning at the end because I just find them to be very artistic. It really is like a chess game and it's an amazing feeling to be in a scramble when both fighters are going back and forth with counters etc. It's high paced and there are so many options. Most people who think it's gay seem to have a problem being comfortable with their own sexuality.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    You said the comparison to medicine didn't hold - I'm saying martial arts can be as much of a time investment (Hell, the average time for a black belt in BJJ is 10 years of consistent training, and by no means guaranteed - I know of a guy who it took 17 years of dedicated, consistent training; compare that to a 5-6 year medical degree). Personally, I have more respect for a legitimate BJJ black belt than a GP or other such.Accessible to everyone? Not necessarily - if you're too out of shape most MMA, Muay Thai and BJJ gyms will tell you to get yourself sorted out before coming to classes. At my old school my instructor told a seriously obese guy that he needed to lose at least four stone before he'd let him continue - the class is always going to be at the pace of the physically least able; if you're not up to par then you're dragging everyone else down with you.

    Catching flys with chopsticks? That's the kind of bull**** "martial arts" I was railing against - you think BJJ, Judo, Wrestling and Boxing are about catching flys with chopsticks? And you call me ignorant.

    I'm a post-graduate student. With the exception of lectures and seminars I'm free to choose when I study - two or three hours a night is not that huge of a blow to my life, social or academic, and it's better than wasting in front of the TV or getting drunk. Anyone can make the time to train with dedication as well as work/study. Are you, perhaps, offended because you're one of these lardy, two-hours-a-week "kata-specialists" (haha) that think they're a dedicated practitioner all the while ducking out of anything like hard sparring because of their "asthma"? Probably.
    With regards to the first point, well what a fool you really are for saying that. So I guess next time you're feeling unwell you can just go and see your BJJ instructor for a prescription or perhaps he'll give you a hospital referal?

    As for studying, well mustn't be much of a course then right?

    And for the last point you know absolutely nothing about me and have no right to judge. For the record I'm very fond of my sparring and no I don't have asthma or any other chronic illness thankfully. I find the way you just degraded the many thousands of athletes who train hard despite the setbacks of chronic illnesses absolutely ignorant and disgusting which proves you're nothing but an ignorant fool. Good day to you.
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    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    With regards to the first point, well what a fool you really are for saying that. So I guess next time you're feeling unwell you can just go and see your BJJ instructor for a prescription or perhaps he'll give you a hospital referal?

    As for studying, well mustn't be much of a course then right?

    And for the last point you know absolutely nothing about me and have no right to judge. For the record I'm very fond of my sparring and no I don't have asthma or any other chronic illness thankfully. I find the way you just degraded the many thousands of athletes who train hard despite the setbacks of chronic illnesses absolutely ignorant and disgusting which proves you're nothing but an ignorant fool. Good day to you.
    It takes way more work to get a black belt in BJJ than a cushy desk job in General Practice - a decade or more; approximately 10,000 hours of mat time on average. Oh wow, a GP can write a prescription . . . big woop.

    It's not much of a course because I have three hours a day spare to train? :rolleyes:

    I have every right to judge anyone for anything. And "ha!" at your butt-hurt little speech. As for ailments; I currently have a broken toe, a broken thumb, a crack rib, a torn tendon in my left knee and shoulder, a bust lip, a black-ish (faded now) eye, about a hundred bruises . . . and I went to 2 hours of practice today with an hour of sparring afterwards. Stop making excuses.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    It takes way more work to get a black belt in BJJ than a cushy desk job in General Practice - a decade or more; approximately 10,000 hours of mat time on average. Oh wow, a GP can write a prescription . . . big woop.

    It's not much of a course because I have three hours a day spare to train? :rolleyes:

    I have every right to judge anyone for anything. And "ha!" at your butt-hurt little speech. As for ailments; I currently have a broken toe, a broken thumb, a crack rib, a torn tendon in my left knee and shoulder, a bust lip, a black-ish (faded now) eye, about a hundred bruises . . . and I went to 2 hours of practice today with an hour of sparring afterwards. Stop making excuses.
    Believe me there's a lot more to being a GP than just prescriptions but ofcourse people like you wouldn't know that. Unless asuming you've been to medical school right?

    You are so ignorant and immature it's unbelievable. I haven't made any excuses. You just can't seem to accept that not everyone shares a narrow view about martial arts and the medical profession as you do. But nevermind as long as you're happy to be sweating away in a dojo whilst the rest of us collect a nice salary and live in a nice house and drive nice cars that's fine. What the hell's a black belt if you haven't got a roof over your head?

    Wake up and start living in the real world my friend. There's more to life than martial arts and sports as much as either me or you would hate to admit it.
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    All the irrelevant whining about whether BJJ black belts are more prestigious than a degree in medicine - who gives a ****! - the simple truth when it comes to martial arts is that when you train under realistic conditions, everything that works looks exactly the same regardless of your background.
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    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    I've noticed a lot of posts on here knocking Judo or Kung-Fu which I think is stupid. Having trained in both I found them both incredibly demanding and useful. I'd say Judo is probably one of the toughest sports nevermind martial arts I've ever tried my hand at especially considering I play American Football. There's no rubbish martial art or fighting style and you'll find they're all useful and compliment each other very well. And tbh if you're prepared to knock one fighting style over the other then IMO you can't be much of a martial arts fan. I appreciate all martial arts in all their forms be it Judo at the Olympics to Tai Chi in a park in Beijing. Heck even Sumo I find interesting and if you ever do go to Japan I highly recommend either going to watch it live or visit a Sumo Training Stable. It's more than just big fat men pushing each other around that's for sure!
    The original conversation wasnt knocking either - i did actually make the point that all martial arts have their merits and wouldnt have survived as long as they did without merit. The point i developed however is that a lot of UFC 'fans' dont have clue about the depth and use of various martial arts - being that they largely are dimwitted teenagers who are learning techniques that are suited for competition rather than practical use - and they relate a wrestler beating some random kung fu guy in cage they saw on a youtube as real clip. So the active 'thinking here is " duuuh da wrestler is big an stong so he can beat da kung fu guy duuuuh jus like in street fighter 2 duuuuuh :dunce: - so there is only so much you can explain to them that they are able to assimilate.
    Alot of retards like eiheri above im sure didnt have a clue what Jujitsu was all about till royce gracie walked into the early ufcs and started snapping arms of the much bigger wrestlers and boxers - then all of a sudden JJ became another cool style for teenagers to ape in their bedrooms along with WWE
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    Wing Chun is not as crap as it is made out to be. Admitedly I went to a school where the style was too traditional and wooden (ITSWA). However, the Kamon style of WC incorporates western boxing and tried and tested police defence techniques. So it really depends.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    The original conversation wasnt knocking either - i did actually make the point that all martial arts have their merits and wouldnt have survived as long as they did without merit. The point i developed however is that a lot of UFC 'fans' dont have clue about the depth and use of various martial arts - being that they largely are dimwitted teenagers who are learning techniques that are suited for competition rather than practical use - and they relate a wrestler beating some random kung fu guy in cage they saw on a youtube as real clip. So the active 'thinking here is " duuuh da wrestler is big an stong so he can beat da kung fu guy duuuuh jus like in street fighter 2 duuuuuh :dunce: - so there is only so much you can explain to them that they are able to assimilate.
    Alot of retards like eiheri above im sure didnt have a clue what Jujitsu was all about till royce gracie walked into the early ufcs and started snapping arms of the much bigger wrestlers and boxers - then all of a sudden JJ became another cool style for teenagers to ape in their bedrooms along with WWE
    You're constantly talking about how ignorant mma fans are yet you're the one who's coming across as ignorant and actually just plain rude.

    The fact of the matter is mma has given an opportunity for martial artists to exhibit their skills (the early events didn't have the rules you seem to hate so much either) and it has been proven that BJJ, Muay Thai, western boxing and wrestling are far superior along with some lesser used arts such as sambo. Things like Kung Fu and wing chun have been shown as pretty much useless against skilled fighters, as hard as that may be to accept it's just fact.

    A boxers punch > a wing Chun tippy tappy strike
    A wrestlers power and conditioning > chi
    A muay Thai kick to the ribs > a spinning double somersault heart of the dragon back kick
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    (Original post by DrunkenMaster)
    Wing Chun is not as crap as it is made out to be. Admitedly I went to a school where the style was too traditional and wooden (ITSWA). However, the Kamon style of WC incorporates western boxing and tried and tested police defence techniques. So it really depends.
    The founder of Kamon Wing Chun is only interested in BJJ. As soon as he found out what it was all about, he dropped Chunning like a stone and spent all his time on the mats. Teaching Chunning just pays the bills.
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    (Original post by Busby_Babe)
    You're constantly talking about how ignorant mma fans are yet you're the one who's coming across as ignorant and actually just plain rude.

    The fact of the matter is mma has given an opportunity for martial artists to exhibit their skills (the early events didn't have the rules you seem to hate so much either) and it has been proven that BJJ, Muay Thai, western boxing and wrestling are far superior along with some lesser used arts such as sambo. Things like Kung Fu and wing chun have been shown as pretty much useless against skilled fighters, as hard as that may be to accept it's just fact.

    A boxers punch > a wing Chun tippy tappy strike
    A wrestlers power and conditioning > chi
    A muay Thai kick to the ribs > a spinning double somersault heart of the dragon back kick
    It's actually got very little to do with skill level. I'm sure there are many Chunners who are very skilled indeed.

    What's missing is the live training method.

    I've posted this before, but those of you that don't understand live training need to watch this video and absorb what is being said:


    SBGi is famous for teaching a number of different fighting styles. Matt Thornton genuinely knows what he is talking about.

    Check out the chess analogy.
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    (Original post by Busby_Babe)
    You're constantly talking about how ignorant mma fans are yet you're the one who's coming across as ignorant and actually just plain rude.

    The fact of the matter is mma has given an opportunity for martial artists to exhibit their skills (the early events didn't have the rules you seem to hate so much either) and it has been proven that BJJ, Muay Thai, western boxing and wrestling are far superior along with some lesser used arts such as sambo. Things like Kung Fu and wing chun have been shown as pretty much useless against skilled fighters, as hard as that may be to accept it's just fact.

    A boxers punch > a wing Chun tippy tappy strike
    A wrestlers power and conditioning > chi
    A muay Thai kick to the ribs > a spinning double somersault heart of the dragon back kick
    lol he's just another pissed phag because flashy kicks and fannying around flying in the air don't do **** against a wrestler who's determined to take you down and grind your face into the ground, no matter how many movies you make about "fly kicking kung fu".

    brb touting so called "deadly martial arts" yet because they're so "deadly" you can't even spar with them because the techniques are so deadly, so you have no idea how good you are at applying them because you're never actually ****ing used them.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    The original conversation wasnt knocking either - i did actually make the point that all martial arts have their merits and wouldnt have survived as long as they did without merit. The point i developed however is that a lot of UFC 'fans' dont have clue about the depth and use of various martial arts - being that they largely are dimwitted teenagers who are learning techniques that are suited for competition rather than practical use - and they relate a wrestler beating some random kung fu guy in cage they saw on a youtube as real clip. So the active 'thinking here is " duuuh da wrestler is big an stong so he can beat da kung fu guy duuuuh jus like in street fighter 2 duuuuuh :dunce: - so there is only so much you can explain to them that they are able to assimilate.
    Alot of retards like eiheri above im sure didnt have a clue what Jujitsu was all about till royce gracie walked into the early ufcs and started snapping arms of the much bigger wrestlers and boxers - then all of a sudden JJ became another cool style for teenagers to ape in their bedrooms along with WWE
    I was four-years-old when UFC1 aired. And the only person who is coming off as retarded is you. :rolleyes:

    (Original post by Clip)
    It's actually got very little to do with skill level. I'm sure there are many Chunners who are very skilled indeed.

    What's missing is the live training method.

    I've posted this before, but those of you that don't understand live training need to watch this video and absorb what is being said:


    SBGi is famous for teaching a number of different fighting styles. Matt Thornton genuinely knows what he is talking about.

    Check out the chess analogy.
    Didn't we both say this on the first page? Some people in this thread have seriously poor reading comprehension.

    Also, I now train at an SBGi gym and they're awesome (formerly Gracie Barra, who were awesome too). Matt Thornton is big into the Bruce Lee "be like water" philosophy, not that I've ever had a seminar with him - just seen a few of his DVDs.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    The founder of Kamon Wing Chun is only interested in BJJ. As soon as he found out what it was all about, he dropped Chunning like a stone and spent all his time on the mats. Teaching Chunning just pays the bills.
    In fact Kevin Chan is the highest ranking British Chinese BJJ practitioner!
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    (Original post by DrunkenMaster)
    In fact Kevin Chan is the highest ranking British Chinese BJJ practitioner!
    That says a lot more about Chinese people and their cultural brainwashing with respect to martial arts, than it does about Kevin Chan.

    Whilst Kevin is one of the handful of homegrown blackbelts, to qualify him from being Chinese is hardly an achievement. How many British Chinese people do you think there are that are graded blue belt or higher in BJJ? I would doubt that there are very many at all - probably all too busy pretending to be Tigers or Cranes and smacking wooden dummies about.

    **EDIT** There is that guy that calls himself Meerkatsu or something. Used to teach traditional JJ at Imperial College for a long time before seeing the light. Pretty sure he's Chinese and I think he's a Brown belt now.

    He's case in point. A guy that spent years living and breathing Traditional Jiu Jitsu, and ran his own club. All it took was a few minutes of BJJ to demonstrate that it was all a waste of time. He left his school with someone else and became a student at a BJJ club - I think he's at Mill Hill BJJ now - which ironically is run by Nick Brooks, who himself ran a Traditional Jiu Jitsu club, before also getting real.
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    (Original post by Busby_Babe)
    You're constantly talking about how ignorant mma fans are yet you're the one who's coming across as ignorant and actually just plain rude.

    The fact of the matter is mma has given an opportunity for martial artists to exhibit their skills (the early events didn't have the rules you seem to hate so much either) and it has been proven that BJJ, Muay Thai, western boxing and wrestling are far superior along with some lesser used arts such as sambo. Things like Kung Fu and wing chun have been shown as pretty much useless against skilled fighters, as hard as that may be to accept it's just fact.

    A boxers punch > a wing Chun tippy tappy strike
    A wrestlers power and conditioning > chi
    A muay Thai kick to the ribs > a spinning double somersault heart of the dragon back kick
    I wasnt trying to be rude, it sometimes may come accross that way when you have to explain fairly simplistic concepts to retards who have a miniscule level of experience. Wing Chun is a specialised fighting form - the discussion was not how successful is it in the UFC - i have little interest in how it works in the parameters of the 'octagon'. Training takedowns on a nice soft mat in your jockey shorts with other half naked guys has little to do with what martial arts are largely used for out int he real world.



    A muay Thai kick to the ribs > a spinning double somersault heart of the dragon back kick" -There is no such technique in Wing Chun - you are mixing it up with Tekken 3

    A wrestlers power and conditioning > chi -Again, Wing Chun is not a Chi based system, its a quite straight forward "punch someone on the jaw with a little finess as is needed" system. You are watching too many movies. There are Chi based Kung fu systems that have nothing to do with Wing Tsun but these take some 40 -50 years to master

    "A boxers punch > a wing Chun tippy tappy strike" -Boxing and wing chun follow similar principles - the main difference though there is much more shoulder and body weight used in boxing styles whereas wing tsun promotes speed and punches are thrown in a central line with the fist in vertical position using tricep and hip force - the idea being this is faster and easier to penetrate an opponents guard. The tippy tappy image you have in your mind i guess is what you have seen in light open hand sparring which is used for training speed and reaction to your opponent movement- closed fist isnt used becasue they rarely use gloves and head gear in traditional teaching schools and would be knowcking each other out every few minutes. There are various demonstrations of wing tsun breaking suspended boards 2_ inches thick - which is more than enough to crack your jaw. Most people have enough power in a puch to knock someone out , the idea of wing tsun is to be able to delvier that strike faster and more accuratley than the opponent. None of that is to say that a boxer may not be more powerful or faster than a wing tsun guy - but like i said already - fighting is far more to do witht he ability of the two individuals than the styles they use.
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    (Original post by Einheri)
    I was four-years-old when UFC1 aired. And the only person who is coming off as retarded is you. :rolleyes:

    Which is why i did say retards like yourself- your equivalent in the the early 90s that was, like the typical ufc fan then, fixated on wrestlers and boxers, till jujitsu rewrote the rule book. The ufc rule book that is- as proper martial artists have known about practial use of submission wrestling long before you were born. But again his success probably had more to do with his own ability than his style - brazilian juitsu is not unique in its submissions - various styles of kung fu have taught ground sumbission and ground defence techniques for a few hundred years at least, and in judo , karate, pankration etc all have them in their arsenal too.
    It makes me laugh to read the idiots on here that in their early twenties can claim an all encompassing knowledge of martial arts from taking classes rolling around a mat with other likeminded sweaty morons. You havnt a ****ing clue, thats all thats been demonstrated
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    ....... brazilian juitsu is not unique in its submissions - various styles of kung fu have taught ground sumbission and ground defence techniques for a few hundred years at least, and in judo , karate, pankration etc all have them in their arsenal too.
    In that case, why are CMA practitioners so laughably bad at groundfighting, and why is it that there is not a single kungfu school that teaches it? (and crappling doesn't count.)

    It makes me laugh to read the idiots on here that in their early twenties can claim an all encompassing knowledge of martial arts from taking classes rolling around a mat with other likeminded sweaty morons. You havnt a ****ing clue, thats all thats been demonstrated
    But you haven't demonstrated anything. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the traditional martial arts (as opposed to combat sport) training method is in any way creditable. In fact, all the evidence would suggest the exact opposite.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    In that case, why are CMA practitioners so laughably bad at groundfighting, and why is it that there is not a single kungfu school that teaches it? (and crappling doesn't count.)
    Have you ever rolled with chunners? Flailing and spazzing is apparently an ancient Chinese technique.

    Edit: Perfect shoop for this:



    :teehee:
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    (Original post by Clip)
    In that case, why are CMA practitioners so laughably bad at groundfighting, and why is it that there is not a single kungfu school that teaches it? (and crappling doesn't count.)

    .

    how many kung fu schools do you actually know that you are so confident that none teach ground fighting lol ?
    I know that they do and i also know old fashioned kung fu techniques (armbars,the rubber guard, omaplata as they call it etc in mma) all can be found in kung fu styles which date back to the 10th century - if you ever have seen a guy that has trained in what they call 'monkey' style in china- using ground techniques , it is largely rolling around, eye gouging, choking and limb locking for the most part. Not the same as you would see in jackie chan doing 'drunken monkey style' in movies- but then for most of the dimwits on this thread that will be the max of their exposure to the subject of martial arts.

    Of course in kung fu you are not jsut simply rolling around for position or holding guard- you are also attemping to cause damage to the opponents vitals or prone areas whilst on the ground, or make use of pressure points that become open on the ground to assit securing an arm bar etc. UFC automatically remove all of that thereby stripping kung fu to jsut another sport-form mma style. To be quite frank a high level kung fu guy will far more likely to try scoop out your eyeball out than roll around for 5 mins trying to lock out your arm if the fight went to the ground, it would be easier and incapacitate you far quicker.

    But in the UFC, all of that would be illegal and quite frankly distasteful for a televised sporting event. So what works in UFC is specifcally watered down combat styles tailored to a competiton environment. Most kung fu styles are i will admit - would be usless in such a competiton envinonment, in answer to your question about the ufc, but then i couldnt give a toss about the ufc in terms of martial arts, because they are two different things.
 
 
 
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