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    (Original post by Exodus)
    OP, you are what separates us humans from the animals - and makes us worse than them.

    You can understand death, pain, terror, an ability that no other animal has and still you chose to inflict these for no reason other than your own pleasure. In this you have done a deed worse than any non-human animal has ever committed in the history of earth. I would genuinely much rather see an arrow through your brain than an innocent deer or antelope.
    Hmm me thinks you need to be on a watch list.
    Wishing the death of millions of people.

    If karma exists (which unfortunately it doesn't) you will be visited by a sadistic serial killer (which you essentially are) who would be able to inflict on you what you have done to these creatures.
    Killing an animal is in no way comparable to killing a human being.

    I presume you also are a vegetarian?
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Hmm me thinks you need to be on a watch list.
    Wishing the death of millions of people.


    Killing an animal is in no way comparable to killing a human being.

    I presume you also are a vegetarian?

    I wouldn't say I wish it, I just find the death of the type of person that kills for fun preferable to an innocent animal. I wish we could live in a state of respect for our fellow animals.

    And yes, it is extremely comparable, humans are animals you know.

    And a vegan, actually.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Killing an animal is in no way comparable to killing a human being.
    What would be your reasoning for this?
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    (Original post by Exodus)
    I wouldn't say I wish it, I just find the death of the type of person that kills for fun preferable to an innocent animal. I wish we could live in a state of respect for our fellow animals.

    And yes, it is extremely comparable, humans are animals you know.
    Indeed we are, which is why I respect the Animals I hunt immensely.


    And a vegan, actually.
    Good for you, I was a vegetarian for a few years, never managed to make the jump to Vegan, just didn't have the commitment.
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    (Original post by Lazuliblue)
    What would be your reasoning for this?
    I am of the Homosapien-centric view that we are superior by virtue of being us, if not superior certainly a distinct species, and as such in the same way other animals may hunt and kill different species without facing retribution or fault, so do we obtain the right to hunt and kill other species.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    I am of the Homosapien-centric view that we are superior by virtue of being us, if not superior certainly a distinct species, and as such in the same way other animals may hunt and kill different species without facing retribution or fault, so do we obtain the right to hunt and kill other species.
    That is no logical justification, its just saying you put your subjective view above all others.

    You cannot compare human hunting to animals killing each other because we are in a unique position. We can understand the effects of our actions and more importantly can choose to behave differently. A Lion must kill to survive, humans do not need to.

    Saying animals do it so I can is poor justification. Animals kill and rape members of their own species, does this means humans should to?
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    I am of the Homosapien-centric view that we are superior by virtue of being us, if not superior certainly a distinct species, and as such in the same way other animals may hunt and kill different species without facing retribution or fault, so do we obtain the right to hunt and kill other species.
    Ok, it seems to me there is a bit of a contradiction in there.

    On the one hand you are saying we are superior by virtue of being a separate and distinct species to the other animals. You are emphasising that we as Homo sapiens are different to the rest of the animal kingdom.

    Your second point however is emphasising our likeness to the rest of the animal kingdom, and suggesting that because of our similarities we can partake in the same activities.
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    I don't believe killing an animal is either a sport or a fun leisure activity.
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    If we have the right to kill animals for food or protection from the elements, I see no logical reason to say we don't have the right to kill them for sport.

    Either something has the right to life, which means you can't morally kill it except in defense of yourself, another person or property, or it does not - and I hold that animals have no such right.
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    (Original post by Lazuliblue)
    Ok, it seems to me there is a bit of a contradiction in there.

    On the one hand you are saying we are superior by virtue of being a separate and distinct species to the other animals. You are emphasising that we as Homo sapiens are different to the rest of the animal kingdom.

    Your second point however is emphasising our likeness to the rest of the animal kingdom, and suggesting that because of our similarities we can partake in the same activities.
    Of course, we are different in the sense that a butterfly by virtue of obvious characteristics is different than a Zebra.
    Yet both are the same in that they are animals.

    We are different in the virtue that we are Homosapiens, we have certain strengths and weaknesses unique to us, yet are simmiler in that we are animals.
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    (Original post by Aoide)
    That is no logical justification, its just saying you put your subjective view above all others.
    That's all as a human I can do.

    You cannot compare human hunting to animals killing each other because we are in a unique position.
    But humans are Animals, our unique intelligence, is no different than any other unique trait a species may have.
    We can understand the effects of our actions and more importantly can choose to behave differently. A Lion must kill to survive, humans do not need to.
    Yes I understand the effects, I accept the effects and I choose to hunt.
    What is the problem, you have not given me a "reason" to behave differently.

    Saying animals do it so I can is poor justification. Animals kill and rape members of their own species, does this means humans should to?
    We shouldn't if we value self-preservation of our species, which I do.

    If you want to rape though...that's up to you, though I would warn you there are laws in place to punish such activities, and you should be careful.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Of course, we are different in the sense that a butterfly by virtue of obvious characteristics is different than a Zebra.
    Yet both are the same in that they are animals.

    We are different in the virtue that we are Homosapiens, we have certain strengths and weaknesses unique to us, yet are simmiler in that we are animals.
    Ok, so a zebra is different to a butterfly.

    You suggest this difference is similar to our difference from other members of the animal kingdom, and gives us an inherent superiority and right to kill other animals.

    So is the zebra superior to the butterfly by virtue of being different? If it is, which characteristics make it superior? If not, then why do our differences between us and and the animal kingdom make us superior? Which of our specific characteristics make us superior to the rest of the animal kingdom?

    Edit: Clarified last sentence.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    Indeed we are, which is why I respect the Animals I hunt immensely.



    Good for you, I was a vegetarian for a few years, never managed to make the jump to Vegan, just didn't have the commitment.

    It seems pretty psychopathic to kill something you respect.
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    (Original post by Lazuliblue)
    Ok, so a zebra is different to a butterfly.

    You suggest this difference is similar to our difference from other members of the animal kingdom, and gives us an inherent superiority and right to kill other animals.
    I do

    If not, then why do our differences between us and and the animal kingdom make us superior? Which of our specific characteristics make us superior to the rest of the animal kingdom?
    Power.
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    (Original post by Exodus)
    It seems pretty psychopathic to kill something you respect.
    Not at all, enemies may respect one another.
    Though I would not consider an animal my enemy, during the hunt it is surely my target and the hunt only ends satisfactorily when it has been killed.
    I respect the animals life, it's essence, I offer it to the Aesir after the kill in respect of the animal's life and of the Aesir themselves, in respect I kill it as cleanly and as quickly as I am able, and use all of it's carcass as best I can.

    Our difference lies in the fact you consider other animals to have an unaniable right to life, while I like the rest of nature...do not.

    It has the right to fight for life , nothing more.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    I do


    Power.
    You can't edit out most of my post and then attempt to answer it with three words.

    Also, I don't think 'power' is a very well thought out answer to the question of which characteristics make us superior to other animals. Is this power constant? If you were faced with a tiger and had no weapon to defend yourself, would you still have an inherent 'power' over the animal? Or is the power only available to Homo sapiens when armed with a weapon? In that case your right to kill it would only be available when you had a weapon, which means your argument that Homo sapiens are superior over the rest of the animal kingdom becasue they have an inherent power, falls flat.
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    That's all as a human I can do.

    But humans are Animals, our unique intelligence, is no different than any other unique trait a species may have.
    Those traits are irrelevant this discussion on morality


    Yes I understand the effects, I accept the effects and I choose to hunt.
    What is the problem, you have not given me a "reason" to behave differently.
    And? That is not relevant to my original point. Animals can't be judged for killing because they have no choice and don't understand the effects. We can choose and do understand so can be judged for killing animals.

    We shouldn't if we value self-preservation of our species, which I do.
    You said that it is ok to do something just because animals do it. Apply this rule to other situations and you condone rape and murder. It might not be a good idea but as far as your logic goes it isn't wrong.

    If you want to rape though...that's up to you, though I would warn you there are laws in place to punish such activities, and you should be careful.

    So the only problem with rape is that is it illegal? That is worrying.
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    (Original post by Lazuliblue)
    You can't edit out most of my post and then attempt to answer it with three words.
    Oopse, sorry I meant to quote box it, must have cut it by mistake.

    The answer stands though.

    Also, I don't think 'power' is a very well thought out answer to the question of which characteristics make us superior to other animals
    .
    Actually I consider it the culmination of years of thought of the matter.
    I have this debate countless times, from both sides of the fence, from when I started hunting and questioned if it was ok to kill Animals, through to a two year perior when I was an animal-rights activist and a Vegetarian, back to where I am now.

    Through all my pontifications, arguments, ponderings and thoughts, It all simply boils down to that one thing.

    Power, we have a right because we are strong enough and capable enough to do it.

    Is this power constant? If you were faced with a tiger and had no weapon to defend yourself, would you still have an inherent 'power' over the animal?
    No I would not, and as such I would have not used my power accordingly, since I found myself in a situation without the tools which give me my power.
    This shows stupidity and foolishness on my part, and any harm or death I incur, would be justly and rightly received.

    Or is the power only available to Homo sapiens when armed with a weapon?
    The power is available to us when we have that power, if we only need our hands to kill a chicken, then we exercise that power..the chicken is unable to stop us, it dies.

    If I tried to strangle a black bear...I would be in for a messy death, so I would extend my power to firearms, bows, knives, whatever I required to exert power over the bear.

    In that case your right to kill it would only be available when you had a weapon which means your argument that Homo sapiens are superior over the rest of the animal kingdom becasue they have an inherent power, falls flat.
    Indeed it would, and I would most likely die.
    Thus proving I lacked power, and deserved to be the prey of another animal or of starvation, or whatever other ill befalls me for my stupidity in this area.

    Though you over-thought to what extent I meant "power" was a right.
    Right's don't exist ultimately, I was leaning towards what makes me "able".
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    Not at all, enemies may respect one another.
    Though I would not consider an animal my enemy, during the hunt it is surely my target and the hunt only ends satisfactorily when it has been killed.
    Well to me it seems pretty psychopathic to go on the hunt for something that you do not consider your enemy.

    I respect the animals life, it's essence, I offer it to the Aesir after the kill in respect of the animal's life and of the Aesir themselves
    Oh...right... I think I am getting a clearer picture of your mental state.

    , in respect I kill it as cleanly and as quickly as I am able, and use all of it's carcass as best I can.
    I'm sure you said earlier you switched to a bow? Which is not as clean or quick as a gun, but more fun for you...?
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    Argh you need to learn to quote box, you made replying to this needlessly difficult.

    (Original post by Aoide)

    Those traits are irrelevant this discussion on morality
    Oh were discussing morality?
    My bad.

    This conversation won't go anywhere, I think morality is completely subjective, I am often told I am a Nihilist.


    And? That is not relevant to my original point. Animals can't be judged for killing because they have no choice and don't understand the effects. We can choose and do understand so can be judged for killing animals.
    Indeed we can.
    But what's wrong with it?


    You said that it is ok to do something just because animals do it. Apply this rule to other situations and you condone rape and murder. It might not be a good idea but as far as your logic goes it isn't wrong.
    I was referring explicitly to inter-species relations not inter-specie's relations.

    I am a homosapien supremacist, so I value safeguarding my own species and as such would not condone rape or murder.


    [quote]So the only problem with rape is that is it illegal? That is worrying./QUOTE]
    Not at all, it's wrong because it's harmful.

    You were the one who seemed to be advocating it, I was simply being polite and warning you not to.
 
 
 
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