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    [QUOTE=Jimbo1234;42106392]Like who? :curious: Also if it is a viable degree that will make you money and you can do it, then go nuts. When it's "just for fun", then don't moan when you go to collect JSA for the next 20 years.
    Want to learn more? Buy a book. You can't afford to spend 3-4 years and £40k just to learn more.

    I'm wanting to study Education and special educational needs to eventually become a social worker, because I want to help people. I know someone in my English class at college who is coming out with As - he does no work and gets drunk every weekend. Why buy a book when I can have specialists to help support me?
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    To me it looks like Tobacco Smoke wants the majority of the people to go straight to work from college or 6th form so they can pay the taxes and allow him and his 'academically elite 'pals to have a free uni education. There is more to becoming a fully rounded, productive member of society than proving you can read a book and remember a few facts to come out with an A in an exam.
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    (Original post by TobaccoSmoke)
    Basically you're suggesting that it's a good thing that we have loads of low ranking universities with their main purpose of existence to hide the true unemployment figure?
    Your statement "the true unemployment figure" makes no sense at all.
    It clearly isn't the "true" one; if people are going to lower ranked universities and going on to get graduate jobs then this is far better for our society and economy than all of those people not getting degrees at all and becoming unemployed.

    I went to a university that isn't highly ranked in most of these tables; I achieved a good grade, had my graduation in October, and have now started a graduate position in the exact job I was aiming for (5 months later). This is going to make me a far more productive member of society than if I hadn't gone to university and simply joined the millions of unemployed.
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    (Original post by Emre944)
    Have you considered going to uni and doing an access course for a more vocational degree?
    I agree with part of your statement. But how do you determine who is academically gifted and who is not if you don't give them the opportunity to prove themselves? Although what you've said may apply to a myriad of students, there surely are students who haven't had the opportunity to prove their capabilities in secondary education. Who is to say that they won't develop themselves and reach up to the academic standards of higher ranked universities after undergraduate studies at a lower ranked uni, considering academic aptitude isn't the only factor leading to success?
    I couldn't do a second degree without funding it myself. I would have done a second degree if I'd been eligible to pay £3400 a year under the old fees (unless I'd have been charged the full-rate) but I certainly can't afford one now.

    Some students will inevitably be lost by poor schooling. Without a massive improvement in schools - that will remain the same.

    Academic aptitude isn't the only factor leading to success, but I think it's a major part of completing university successfully.
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    (Original post by evantej)
    Of course the government receives less back from income tax than it pays out. Though in a mixed economy it is not that simple. In financial terms, the member of staff will pay other things which go directly to the (local) government, for example council tax and VAT, and they will spend the rest of their wage in the private economy which supports other people (e.g. shelf stacker in Asda). But that is not the point I was making. The multiplier effect is about the member of staff generating positive benefits. For instance, a lecturer might cost the government £30,000 per year. But that lecturer teaches students and might write an article or book that year. That work supports staff in a publishing house. Then people buy that work. More and more gets given back to the government in pure financial terms. But of course academia is about the ideas in the work. The work might be a journal article describing the results of a drug trial which get fed back into the NHS, saving millions of pounds and thousands of lives etc., etc.. All these people live longer and fitter lives, paying more tax and finance the original pay of the lecturer.

    But to get back to the main point. Higher education is not a statutory provision. Unlike mainstream education and the NHS, which would simply absorb any extra budget allocated to them, higher education has to compete for funding by meeting strict criteria so it not a case of being simply allocated x amount of funding. (The same applies for further education with regards to the Skills Funding Agency).

    The government really only provides an element of stability and stimulates growth. The removal of the teaching grant for most subjects ultimately means, while the taxpayer loans the student the money upfront, the student is funding higher education now. It is not right to say that the money comes from the government. It is a basic credit agreement. It is like saying Barclays funded business x because they provided a loan which allowed business x to expand in the short term. That is not the case at all. Business x funded itself and said it would be liable no matter whatever the consequences (i.e. pay interest if they can pay the loan or become insolvent if not).

    Funding can come from lots of places though. Alumni, charities, other government departments, postgraduate students, private businesses, investors, private interests, people using facilities, and learned societies. For example, 40% of the University of Oxford's income for 2011/12 came from 'external research sponsors'.

    A very simple example is a university library. From your point of view the government pays for it. But by having those resources the university has created a multiplier effect. First of all, it supports students studying. Secondly, it helps lecturers create new research. Thirdly, I am not a student at the university but I paid to join as an external member. The university continues to generate more and more income on from its original investment.
    Okay - I see your point about Oxford, but that's Oxford. Universities like Oxford, like Cambridge, like UCL, Warwick et al will receive a lot of funding from outside agencies because they're recognised as being quality universities.

    Where does, say, the University of Bolton receive its funding, or the University of Cumbria?
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    This question is just complete nonsense hahaha, people with good grades go to unis which may not be ranked in the 'top 40' just because they like the campus and the course itself... Just because you don't go to a well known uni doesn't mean you have terrible A-level grades
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    (Original post by ilickbatteries)
    Okay - I see your point about Oxford, but that's Oxford. Universities like Oxford, like Cambridge, like UCL, Warwick et al will receive a lot of funding from outside agencies because they're recognised as being quality universities.

    Where does, say, the University of Bolton receive its funding, or the University of Cumbria?
    All Universities will recieve funding through research. Some get more than others of cource. It can be from funding bodies, and industry and charities (for example for medical reseach). A large part of the funding for teaching (undergrad and postgrad) of course comes through tuition fees and teaching grants (if available). Again it will vary depending on the fees charged and what grant they can get for a particular subject (which can be from industry as well as directly from government), and costs will also vary (as has been said many times, humanities type courses fund science and engineering by charging the same but costing much less). Other funding will be from alumini bodies and bequests (particularly former students and staff). Student Unions will also provide funding, particularly for sports, leisure and social facilities. Other none academic facilities can be funded by users, either internally (such as students paying for accomodation, and staff and students purchasing at shops and cafes), or by opening them up to external users (for example renting sports facilities to local schools). Even academic facilities can be hired out to get funding, for example lecture theatres being used by outside groups, or even scientific equipment being used by outside organisations.
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    (Original post by Annuhlees)
    Baring in mind the company (The owner is the only person above him) earns millions a year i'm sure he isn't a 'misinformed manager'. When he hires an architect he'll look at their drawings, what they've worked on before etc. He went to Nottingham Trent so why would he be bothered about university rankings? For his course, quantity surveyor, Nottingham Trent was the best university at the time (this was a good 13-years-ago).
    He doesn't know what unis are good or bad....he is misinformed. That isn't up for debate unless what you said was wrong.
    What a company earns and what you are paid don't have to have anything in common :curious:
    Quantity Surveyor? Now just tell me how many unis teach that, and if it is a vocational course or an academic degree? :teehee:



    Maybe he's done so well as he can get on with the builders, he chills with the chippies in Cuba, he eats lunch with some of the most influential leaders of the world (trust me, he's dined with royalty of other countries). He's well respected he doesn't see anyone above, or below him.
    That means nothing. You are not very familiar with the work place to say such a random thing.


    He's worked his way up from being 'the boy in the office' taking down fish and chip orders, to getting a level two foundation btec thingy to a degree, to charter-ship to finance manager to a big badass salary. He's also been offered the company after the owner retires but he wants to retire to become a paramedic.
    So he did something you can't do nowadays. Well yes, many people did this and many people don't realise you couldn't anymore for numerous reasons.

    Basically, i've gone on a ramble but he got 2 GCSE's at C grade in Art and DT. He works hard and has done well. He's probably done better than the people who went to oxbridge.
    Not really.

    This is one of the reasons that i'm not bothered that i'm going to an ex-ploy. I'll be able to find work because I've got the personality to get on with anybody, able to go into a room and make a friend, I'm logical and when I want to be I can be academic.

    So yeah, grades aren't everything
    Grades are not everything, but without good ones, you won't get a job nowadays. Why? Because of the vast pool of unemployed students. Companies will only choose the best. Then to add to the mess, you will only get promoted if you tick the boxes (literally in many companies now) and a poor degree gives you an empty box.


    ******************************** ****************************



    (Original post by KayleighG)
    I'm wanting to study Education and special educational needs to eventually become a social worker, because I want to help people. I know someone in my English class at college who is coming out with As - he does no work and gets drunk every weekend. Why buy a book when I can have specialists to help support me?
    Will that even pay for itself? What is the cost of the course (it isn't a degree but a vocational course) and the average salary of that job?

    ..because a book is cheaper?! :facepalm: I thought I made that bit clear...
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    He doesn't know what unis are good or bad....he is misinformed.
    He has experience of graduates from a range of universities, and knows how good these graduates are.

    Quantity Surveyor? Now just tell me how many unis teach that
    A list of universities offer RICS (Royal Institute of Surveyors Degrees) accredited degrees can be found here, though not all of them will be Quanitity Surveying.

    http://ricscourses.org/Pages/institu...orldwideSearch

    and if it is a vocational course or an academic degree? :teehee:
    It is possible for a course to be vocational as well as "academic". See engineering, law and architecture. Quantity Surveying can be added to this.
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    (Original post by magsgavy)
    To me it looks like Tobacco Smoke wants the majority of the people to go straight to work from college or 6th form so they can pay the taxes and allow him and his 'academically elite 'pals to have a free uni education. There is more to becoming a fully rounded, productive member of society than proving you can read a book and remember a few facts to come out with an A in an exam.
    This is simply an excuse for poor performance in academia.

    To answer the OP, it is a great idea! But the only universities that should be kept open are the top 5, in my opinion.
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    (Original post by member591354)
    This is simply an excuse for poor performance in academia.

    To answer the OP, it is a great idea! But the only universities that should be kept open are the top 5, in my opinion.
    Why five? Surely only one is needed? Or at most, two. :cool:

    EDIT: This was intended as a sarcastic joke about the previous poster's absurd statement, not an accurate description of my own views!
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    (Original post by member591354)
    This is simply an excuse for poor performance in academia.

    To answer the OP, it is a great idea! But the only universities that should be kept open are the top 5, in my opinion.
    Time to go back under the bridge, buddy.


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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Why five? Surely only one is needed? Or at most, two. :cool:
    I thought it would be better to tolerate other highly-ranked universities, but Cambridge and Oxford are, evidently, far superior to these other universities people attend.
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    (Original post by member591354)
    I thought it would be better to tolerate other highly-ranked universities, but Cambridge and Oxford are, evidently, far superior to these other universities people attend.
    I am puzzled that you have so many little red bars.
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    Time to go back under the bridge, buddy.


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    I wish people would stop referring to me as a troll. I am being completely serious! Honestly, if you go to a crappy university and think being 'well-rounded' is better than being immensely intelligent, then you are a ****ing moron.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I am puzzled that you have so many little red bars.
    If you do not conform to the ridiculous social norms on this site then you are despised e.g. hating on religions, pretend that other universities are actually good, believe in subjective morality, think abortion and euthanasia are A-okay, etc.
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    (Original post by member591354)
    This is simply an excuse for poor performance in academia.

    To answer the OP, it is a great idea! But the only universities that should be kept open are the top 5, in my opinion.
    Time to go back under the bridge, buddy.


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    (Original post by TobaccoSmoke)
    If only the top 40 best universities remained open that means only the most academically able applicants would ever get a place and the cost to the tax payer would be far less to run the universities.

    Also, with far less universities, the UK might be able to reinstate free tuition.
    This is about the most ignorant thing i have read all week. Maybe even all month. I mean wow. Wow..... From an economic point of view this is absolutely foolish. From a personal point of view, this is absolutely foolish. I'm not gonna bother going deep into this but how in the world do you expect the skills of individuals within the economy to be increased without university? Have you thought about the effect your suggestion would have on the number of expats from the UK? The effect it would have on the future entrepreneural spirit? Not everyone can be as much of a genius as you are and get into a top fourty. Sometimes they are too lazy,sometimes they are just not academically gifted but this does not mean they do not deserve education to equip them with skills and vision to become productive members of society.

    You do realise that not every elite member of the workforce came from a top fourty university right? Im pretty sure Trevor Macdonald went to a uni in trinidad and tobago.My old economics teacher used to work for a bank, gaining 50,000 a year and he went to Kingston. If tou took the time to get out of your cave, you would realise that there are graduates from Universities outside the top fourty that go to top law firms, accountancy firms and etc. Even a friend of mine has a cousin who grsduated from Souhampton Solent and works in the big London City.

    While the top fourty may be the best in Uk ,please don't forget that even Solent would rank relatively highly when compared to every other university in the world. Just because they are in the top fourty does not mean they are a complete waste of time. They do produce useful members of society who become expats and sources of higher tax revenue.
    And besides,what use is free tuition if most people are not getting it.

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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    Time to go back under the bridge, buddy.


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    Stop repeating yourself. Just because you are happy with being an insignificant blemish on humankind, it doesn't mean everyone wants to be the same way. Go to a proper university. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by member591354)
    I wish people would stop referring to me as a troll. I am being completely serious! Honestly, if you go to a crappy university and think being 'well-rounded' is better than being immensely intelligent, then you are a ****ing moron.
    And who are you?
 
 
 
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