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If you are English, do you support Scottish independence? Watch

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    (Original post by Maybenexttime)
    "Scotland 'got' £16.5bn more in UK public spending in 2009-10 than it contributed to total UK revenues - or a 'subsidy' of around £3,150 per head."
    So much stupidity, it's difficult to know where to start.

    In 2009/10, Scotland 'spent' £62.1 billion and raised £48.1 billion. So the net fiscal balance was -£14 billion. 10.6% of Scottish GDP.

    But wait, what's the figure for the UK? In 2009/10, the UK had a net fiscal balance of -£156.5 billion. 11.1% of British GDP.

    England is categorically not 'subsidising' Scotland. In fact England is running at a large deficit, which is being plugged by government loans, the same way the Scottish deficit is. Every single part of the UK is being 'subsidised' by the government taking out loans. That's why the country has a 'deficit' and 'national debt'.

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publicati.../06/21144516/9
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    Absloutely not.
    1)Country will get smaller, that can never be a good thing
    2) will need a passport to go to Scotland
    3) End of 300 years of historical cooperation
    4)Nationalism is stupid. We have been working together great for 300 years so why end that just because they're a bit different to us?
    5) Scotland might flop going it alone
    6) If Scotland flops and the government goes belly up we have a possible hostile failed state on our borders.
    7) we will have another border so will have to spend more on border control
    8) We will have to rename the country to either "The United Kingdom of England and Nowhere Else" or just plain England
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    So much stupidity, it's difficult to know where to start.

    In 2009/10, Scotland 'spent' £62.1 billion and raised £48.1 billion. So the net fiscal balance was -£14 billion. 10.6% of Scottish GDP.

    But wait, what's the figure for the UK? In 2009/10, the UK had a net fiscal balance of -£156.5 billion. 11.1% of British GDP.

    England is categorically not 'subsidising' Scotland. In fact England is running at a large deficit, which is being plugged by government loans, the same way the Scottish deficit is. Every single part of the UK is being 'subsidised' by the government taking out loans. That's why the country has a 'deficit' and 'national debt', you moron.

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publicati.../06/21144516/9

    It may be helpful if you paint the full picture there Gordon instead of using cherry picked information.

    You appear to have forgotten to incorporate UK spending figures such as :-

    Pensions
    R & D
    Defence
    Wind Turbine Subsidies
    And a whole host of other things

    But I like the point you raise, Scotland, as does the whole of the UK, lives beyond its means continually spending more than we earn.......A situation that will opnly get worse by the SNPs own figures.

    Because lets's also remember that the UK figures also incorporate the bank bailouts, a good chunk of which were Edinburgh based.......but you'll naturally forget those things won't you.

    Infact, this may be of use to you from the Scottish Governments former economic advisor.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...bate-1-2857358
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    If they want it, let them have it.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    It may be helpful if you paint the full picture there Gordon instead of using cherry picked information.

    You appear to have forgotten to incorporate UK spending figures such as :-

    Pensions
    R & D
    Defence
    Wind Turbine Subsidies
    And a whole host of other things
    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publicati.../06/21144516/8

    There's the page on how the 'spending' was calculated. Pensions are in there under "social protection". R&D is in there as "science and technology". "Defence" is in there. Presumabley wind turbine subsidies are in there under "environmental protection".

    But I like the point you raise, Scotland, as does the whole of the UK, lives beyond its means continually spending more than we earn.......A situation that will opnly get worse by the SNPs own figures.
    Care to quote these figures and show how things "will only get worse"?

    Because lets's also remember that the UK figures also incorporate the bank bailouts, a good chunk of which were Edinburgh based.......but you'll naturally forget those things won't you
    No, I remember it.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)

    Infact, this may be of use to you from the Scottish Governments former economic advisor.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...bate-1-2857358
    An interesting read and I do agree with him to an extent. The figures I quoted only show that Scotland is in a relatively healthier financial state than the whole of the UK at the moment (and has been for a number of years).

    They don't tell us what thing will be like in 20 years. However, how do you think economists would have fared trying to predict what the British economy and public finances would have been like today, back in 2003? You'd need a crystal ball and, unfotunately, we don't have one.
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publicati.../06/21144516/8

    There's the page on how the 'spending' was calculated. Pensions are in there under "social protection". R&D is in there as "science and technology". "Defence" is in there. Presumabley wind turbine subsidies are in there under "environmental protection".

    Hasn't factored in the loss of those has it?



    Care to quote these figures and show how things "will only get worse"?

    By The SNPs own admission.
    http://b.3cdn.net/better/c1d14076ee0..._u9m6vd74f.pdf




    No, I remember it.

    Well done. Atleast you're not claiming that it wouldn't have happened
    In bold
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Hasn't factored in the loss of those has it?
    What do you mean "loss"? It has factored all these things in to the current fiscal balance (which you apparently didn't even realise before proclaiming it didn't). Scotland pays it's share for all the thing you mentioned as much as the rest of the UK does (in fact, more, as the GERS reports constantly show us). How and, more importantly, why would the GERS report factor in some kind of loss of spending on these things?

    You've used this before to try and claim something which simply wasn't in the actual report. I assume you're refering to point 14. So Scotland is predicted by the OBR to run at a smaller deficit than the UK in every year up to 2016/17, where it's predicted to have a deficit of around 1.9% to the UK's 1%?

    I like your definition of "worse". In the next 5 years, the OBR predict Scotland's balance to be much better than the UK's on average, and only have a larger deficit in one of those years?
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    What do you mean "loss"? It has factored all these things in to the current fiscal balance (which you apparently didn't even realise before proclaiming it didn't). Scotland pays it's share for all the thing you mentioned as much as the rest of the UK does (in fact, more, as the GERS reports constantly show us). How and, more importantly, why would the GERS report factor in some kind of loss of spending on these things?



    You've used this before to try and claim something which simply wasn't in the actual report. I assume you're refering to point 14. So Scotland is predicted by the OBR to run at a smaller deficit than the UK in every year up to 2016/17, where it's predicted to have a deficit of around 1.9% to the UK's 1%?

    I like your definition of "worse". In the next 5 years, the OBR predict Scotland's balance to be much better than the UK's on average, and only have a larger deficit in one of those years?
    You may want to try reading the whole report. It blows most of the SNPs claims out if the water. Quite suprising as it's an SNP policy document. Meaning that they're saying one thing in Private and another thing in public. So yes, I will continue to use it as the SNP keep lieing to me
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You may want to try reading the whole report. It blows most of the SNPs claims out if the water. Quite suprising as it's an SNP policy document. Meaning that they're saying one thing in Private and another thing in public. So yes, I will continue to use it as the SNP keep lieing to me
    I've read parts of it. In a discussion, if you have a point to make, it's really better to use some evidence to specifically back it up. If you can't do that, it makes your argument look pretty weak. And you already have a pretty nasty habit of making things up and being utterly unable to understand simple figures and graphs.
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    I've read parts of it. In a discussion, if you have a point to make, it's really better to use some evidence to specifically back it up. If you can't do that, it makes your argument look pretty weak. And you already have a pretty nasty habit of making things up and being utterly unable to understand simple figures and graphs.
    And now comes the side of the cyberNattery that we know and love. They love to try and portray an inclusive fluffy exterior, but they just can't hold off on the personal attacks.

    If you're after evidence. I give you exhibit A. A brilliant primary source.

    http://b.3cdn.net/better/c1d14076ee0..._u9m6vd74f.pdf
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    And now comes the side of the cyberNattery that we know and love. They love to try and portray an inclusive fluffy exterior, but they just can't hold off on the personal attacks.

    If you're after evidence. I give you exhibit A. A brilliant primary source.

    http://b.3cdn.net/better/c1d14076ee0..._u9m6vd74f.pdf
    To be fair, I think what I said is entirely borne by the way this thread has gone. You continually make things up and then move onto something else once it's been pointed out to you and you have shown a complete inabalility to understand graphs.

    You won't give any specifi evidence for any specific claims (which you already failed to do a few days ago as well) either becuase there is none or you're simply incapable of picking out the relevant pieces of evidence. If what you're claiming is true, it should be easy to do so. But you can't or won't.

    Have you simply forgotten that you've called someone an "idiot" and called SNP supporters "limp wristed" and "whinging" in the last 24 hours? Can we add rank hypocrisy to your list of failures as a human being?
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    To be fair, I think what I said is entirely borne by the way this thread has gone. You continually make things up and then move onto something else once it's been pointed out to you and you have shown a complete inabalility to understand graphs.

    You won't give any specifi evidence for any specific claims (which you already failed to do a few days ago as well) either becuase there is none or you're simply incapable of picking out the relevant pieces of evidence. If what you're claiming is true, it should be easy to do so. But you can't or won't.

    Have you simply forgotten that you've called someone an "idiot" and called SNP supporters "limp wristed" and "whinging" in the last 24 hours? Can we add rank hypocrisy to your list of failures as a human being?
    Which specific evidence would you like. The legal advice on the EU that the SNP lied about? The same for NATO

    The 'economically everything will be fine' line that the SNP are telling that is getting blown out of the water at almost every turn by independent analysts.

    The massive U turns the SNP is doing on it's core policy?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Which specific evidence would you like. The legal advice on the EU that the SNP lied about? The same for NATO

    The 'economically everything will be fine' line that the SNP are telling that is getting blown out of the water at almost every turn by independent analysts.

    The massive U turns the SNP is doing on it's core policy?
    Well it's your argument, you should really know what you want to say. I'm not going to tell you what argument you want to make.
 
 
 
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