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    Its not actually about men hating woman or woman hating men.
    Its called diversity.
    Diversity in morals, in values, in norms and in opinions. Thats where the debates come from.
    We're all having heated debates on here about gender equality, stay at home wifes, controlling men. I wouldnt say I hate any of the people who dissagree with what I say, and I'd like to say that they dont hate me either.
    Purely because we dont know eachother to be hating, we just dont share the same values or outlook.

    Diversity is ok
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    (Original post by CJKay)
    These are all foreign issues.
    Let's focus on the problems are home first, shall we?

    Flexibility of maternity and paternity I would consider a men's rights issue given that women already get plenty of maternity rights.



    I don't remember words, only times and people. You managed to piss off an entire thread of guys for one reason or another from what I recall. Was a few weeks back.
    all of them except India I was talking about the UK specifically. You are wrong, they are not foreign issues. See my other post for more specifics.

    Mens rights and womens rights are interlinked. You can't have one without the other, and many feminists supports mens rights. Paternity and maternity rights are intrinsically linked to rights for both genders.
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    (Original post by enthuziazmz)
    except i'm a guy and i'm not obsessed with taking 80 selfies a day and spending 50% of my like painting my face. i depend on my on my brain in life, not my looks . meanwhile, you still look like a 38 year old tim burton fat corpse...
    You can only see my face, so how you've deduced I'm fat, I do not know. I'm actually 132lbs, a size 6-8 and 5"8, pretty slim. I don't take 80 selfies a day and I on't look 38. If you spend 50% of your life on makeup, then you need to work on your skills

    Also "I get by on my brain in life, not looks!" in defnece to being asked for a pic is the mark of someone insecure :teehee:
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    (Original post by AreebWithaHat)
    also OP you'll find the 'women-hating men' are usually the ones that don't 'get any' so take their sexual frustrations out on girls on the internet. these ppl tend to be quiet as hell and very timid irl.

    don't get too worked up.
    This! No girl wants me... quickly let me go on Internet to tell how useless women are...
    Couldn't say better myself.
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    (Original post by Ronove)
    You don't seem to understand what 'exaggerate' means.

    I do not have a personal problem with you but I'm rapidly gaining one. Glad we've got that out of the way.

    'asked if I wanted to keep it on topic'? I had a problem with something you said. What does 'asked if I wanted to keep it on topic' mean if not 'stop criticising something I said/did'? You did something worthy of criticism, I am criticising it. If you're so keen on staying on topic, why don't you discuss the OP rather than Tyrion's approach to discussing it?
    You're exaggerating right now. It's genuinely laughable.
    And if you looked back through the pages, you'd notice that the whole thing popped up because the OP - who I was debating with - starting discussing what I'd said to Tyrion, who promptly picked it up as an example of how men in general tend to think of women (being overemotional and so on). It's not something i deliberately picked out with Tyrion - I responded to something she mistakenly thought a male had said.

    Right, so you've gained a personal problem with me over two words. That's honestly fine by me. I think in this case we'll just keep going round and round, so if you have nothing else to say, that's it.If you want to rant more about how it's oh so bad to tell someone to cool it on the internet, please, continue.
    I've actually got a tonne of revision to complete for now, so if you do respond to this message, expect a response a few hours later.
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    (Original post by enthuziazmz)
    the vast majority men were plenty oppressed by the ruling classes for 99% of history too, used as hard labor donkeys and cannon fodder, there's a giant thread about it on this forum.

    but either way, does that make it ok though? agreeing with the sisterhood, wrong or right? you know who else acts this way? the mafia. wise guy's always right. even when they're wrong they're right.

    Right, of course not - but explainable, probably..

    + yep, a lot of men were opressed, but as were many in power, the concept of men taking up the extreme positions within society, is one that I have no issue with, but it does go some way to explaining why men may be more likely to agree with other men..

    I mean, put it this way:

    Historically who are men's main rivals to sucess? other men.. whether its in dating, jobs, politics etc.. it was other men who stood in their way.. at either end of the spectrum, whether they were fighting to survive poverty, or fighting to gain more wealth..
    So why would they grow to have a psychological disposition to agree with other men? it would be counter-productive towards their own success..

    Women on the other hand, had no such barriers with other women.. sure there are squables/fights, but the barrier to their sucess was perceived (whether you agree or not, that it actually was) as men.. it was men who controlled their lives, whether through marriage, or through politics.. (with few exceptions)

    Banding together with other women, would provide some comfort though, and some manner of strength, united they atleast felt like a difference could be made. - There really was no rivalry to other women, no need to disagree and cause confrontations.. but to disagree with men, well especially in the early 20th/late 19th century, that was viewed as a way of progressing in society..

    So if you see what I mean, whilst not strictly right, it is probably explainable, why men would be less likely to side with other men (their main rivals) whereas women would be more likely to blindly agree with their own (their main allies)
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    (Original post by redferry)
    all of them except India I was talking about the UK specifically. You are wrong, they are not foreign issues. See my other post for more specifics.

    Mens rights and womens rights are interlinked. You can't have one without the other, and many feminists supports mens rights. Paternity and maternity rights are intrinsically linked to rights for both genders.
    I think you'll find the majority of vocal 'Feminists' do anything but support men's rights.

    They pay them lip service during their rants about 'Patriarchy' but they certainly do not support them in any real sense.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Equal pay: There have been massive pay outs in jobs that are traditionally womens jobs, for example social work, over the past 5 years or so, especially in the midlands. Pay in these jobs have been brought into line with traditional male jobs in a way it never has been before.

    abortion rights: free easy access to abortions which wasn't anywhere near as available 10 years ago. Also preventing the abortion limit being lowered.

    Ten years ago far more women lost their jobs through pregnancy

    if you don't believe me jfgi.
    But is that right? Is that not imposing the view that social work holds the same value as the traditional male jobs? When it may or may not... Social work is meant to be fairly low paid anyway... also isn't that projecting a message to females to get more involved in social work since it reaps higher/similar rewards to a more challenging equivalent (that sounded snobbish but I'm talking of getting more women into the sciences rather than education. humanities and social work). It doesn't seem like a wholly positive impact tbh

    Yes but what did feminism do to improve these abortion rights? I'm pretty sure mothers and fathers etc pursued greater abortion rights, rather than feminism as a whole

    Is there a massive statistical difference between then and today? have you got some evidence to back up your claims?

    what is jfgi
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    (Original post by + polarity -)
    TSR scares me too
    Haha!

    But yes, the news came across as really freaky... or at least to me.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I think you'll find the majority of vocal 'Feminists' do anything but support men's rights.

    They pay them lip service during their rants about 'Patriarchy' but they certainly do not support them in any real sense.
    Well I am a vocal feminist that strongly advocates for mens rights *shrug*

    I think improving mens rights helps women, and improving womens rights helps men. It's counterproductive not to care about both genders.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Well I am a vocal feminist that strongly advocates for mens rights *shrug*

    I think improving mens rights helps women, and improving womens rights helps men. It's counterproductive not to care about both genders.
    Then you are in the minority.

    And I agree, hence why I reject Feminism and instead would promote Gender Equality/Egalitarianism.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)

    So if you see what I mean, whilst not strictly right, it is probably explainable, why men would be less likely to side with other men (their main rivals) whereas women would be more likely to blindly agree with their own (their main allies)
    women are more social and band together. same happens in every social mammal species there is, it's biological. females don't live outside the group, they are not strong enough to survive by themselves. actually, the other day i was watching a bunch of female lions trying to take down a giraffe and they just couldn't do it. then out of nowhere a male lion shows up and the giraffe is down within seconds. a woman kicked out of the group 200000 years ago would have meant a death sentence. and that **** stays with you for a long, long time down the evolutionary line.
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    (Original post by Robbie242)
    But is that right? Is that not imposing the view that social work holds the same value as the traditional male jobs? When it may or may not... Social work is meant to be fairly low paid anyway... also isn't that projecting a message to females to get more involved in social work since it reaps higher/similar rewards to a more challenging equivalent (that sounded snobbish but I'm talking of getting more women into the sciences rather than education. humanities and social work). It doesn't seem like a wholly positive impact tbh

    Yes but what did feminism do to improve these abortion rights? I'm pretty sure mothers and fathers etc pursued greater abortion rights, rather than feminism as a whole

    Is there a massive statistical difference between then and today? have you got some evidence to back up your claims?

    what is jfgi
    I am of the firm belief that child social work is one of the toughest jobs in this country.
    I don't know if you know much about having to take children away from their distraught parents who love them very much but just don't know how to look after them/have addiction problems and dealing with badly abused and criminal children on a day to day basis only to be hounded by the press and government and blamed for either taking too many children from their parents or for the death of children at the hands of their parents depending on the media furore at the time.

    given they were being paid far less than bin men I feel the pay rise to bring it in line was more than fair.

    The idea of 'feminism as a whole' is silly, obviously different groups have different objectives! I for one don't give a crap about page 3. But it is feminist groups that continue to kick up a fuss every time they try and lower the abortion limit.

    jfgi - just ****ing google it!
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Equal pay: There have been massive pay outs in jobs that are traditionally womens jobs, for example social work, over the past 5 years or so, especially in the midlands. Pay in these jobs have been brought into line with traditional male jobs in a way it never has been before.
    I cannot see how this is right. Increasing the pay of jobs where there are a lot of women because there are jobs that pay better where there are a lot of men? A social worker does not deserve as much as a miner - simple as.

    (Original post by redferry)
    abortion rights: free easy access to abortions which wasn't anywhere near as available 10 years ago. Also preventing the abortion limit being lowered.
    In 2002 there were 175,932 abortions in England in Wales. In 2012 there were 185,122, where medical abortions accounted for 48% of those. That does not indicate to me a massive increase in availability, not that there really needs to be any given how available it has been for years.
    On top of that, preventing the abortion limit from being lowered is a medical debate, not a women's rights one. It is not up to either men or women to decide when terminations should legally be banned, it is up to medical professionals.

    (Original post by redferry)
    Ten years ago far more women lost their jobs through pregnancy
    Source?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Then you are in the minority.

    And I agree, hence why I reject Feminism and instead would promote Gender Equality/Egalitarianism.
    Feminism for me is about equality, but as a woman I speak out most against the things that directly affect me. That doesn't mean I ignore mens issues but it does make me a feminist because obviously I'm more affected by 'women's problems'.

    The thing I most often speak about is sexual assault. But I strongly advocate better support for men in similar situations, whilst acknowledging it is more common for women to be victims and that I really hate having my arse grabbed/people randomly trying to finger me.
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    (Original post by CJKay)
    I cannot see how this is right. Increasing the pay of jobs where there are a lot of women because there are jobs that pay better where there are a lot of men? A social worker does not deserve as much as a miner - simple as.
    It's all council jobs so nothing like mining.
    Given the drop-out rate, demonisation and horrible conditions associated with social work it's really only fair.




    In 2002 there were 175,932 abortions in England in Wales. In 2012 there were 185,122, where medical abortions accounted for 48% of those. That does not indicate to me a massive increase in availability, not that there really needs to be any given how available it has been for years.
    On top of that, preventing the abortion limit from being lowered is a medical debate, not a women's rights one. It is not up to either men or women to decide when terminations should legally be banned, it is up to medical professionals.
    god I always forget how old I am, I was thinking of like the 90s at 10 years ago :/

    you cant deny their good at blocking attempts to lower the abortion limit though


    Source?
    bleurgh I'll try and dig one out later
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    (Original post by redferry)
    It's all council jobs so nothing like mining.
    Given the drop-out rate, demonisation and horrible conditions associated with social work it's really only fair.
    Nothing to do with feminism. "Because there are lots of women" does not make it a women's rights issue. Pay across jobs is a union issue.

    (Original post by redferry)
    god I always forget how old I am, I was thinking of like the 90s at 10 years ago :/

    you cant deny their good at blocking attempts to lower the abortion limit though

    bleurgh I'll try and dig one out later
    Again, I still fail to see how feminism has any right to intervene just because it involves women. It also involves unborn babies of either gender and they are the losers if feminism makes a wrong step, not the doctors.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Feminism for me is about equality, but as a woman I speak out most against the things that directly affect me. That doesn't mean I ignore mens issues but it does make me a feminist because obviously I'm more affected by 'women's problems'.

    The thing I most often speak about is sexual assault. But I strongly advocate better support for men in similar situations, whilst acknowledging it is more common for women to be victims and that I really hate having my arse grabbed/people randomly trying to finger me.
    Fair enough, but modern Feminism has alienated most and has certainly lost it's claim to being impartially egalitarian.

    I wonder, do you buy into the narrative about victim-blaming and slut-shaming as a real problem? It seems to me to be something that characterises the modern Feminist movement. There is a small percentage of people, a very small percentage, of both genders that actually engage in such behavior, but it presented by the modern Feminist movement as a huge problem. You get the same issue surrounding rape culture. The issue is blown out of all proportion by the Feminist agenda, then propagated by it and you end up simply alienating men from your cause.

    I'd defy you to find more than 1 in 100 people that honestly believe 'She was wearing that so she was asking for it!' or similar, heck I think 1 in 100 would be rather high, and yet this is presented as such a huge issue? And because of the emotive nature of the issue you see people who are genuinely trying to help, such as advising women how to avoid attack in some situations, be branded as Misogynists, which again simply alienates yet more men from this modern brand of Feminism. Modern Feminism seems to be combative at every turn and everything is blamed on men, either explicitly such as with 'Rape Culture' or implicitly with the 'Patriarchy' argument. Surely you can see why it's difficult for any man to even want to align themselves with the modern Feminist movement?
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    (Original post by CJKay)
    Nothing to do with feminism. "Because there are lots of women" does not make it a women's rights issue. Pay across jobs is a union issue.



    Again, I still fail to see how feminism has any right to intervene just because it involves women. It also involves unborn babies of either gender and they are the losers if feminism makes a wrong step, not the doctors.
    foetus. It ain't no baby at 24 weeks.

    It's a womens rights issue - womens rights v foetus rights really.

    It's also a mental health illness issue given the amount of women having late term abortions who have mental health problems.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    foetus. It ain't no baby at 24 weeks.

    It's a womens rights issue - womens rights v foetus rights really.

    It's also a mental health illness issue given the amount of women having late term abortions who have mental health problems.
    Like I said, that's up to the medical boards to decide - not you or any "feminist".

    Mental health issues come under medical issues.
 
 
 
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