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Who are the top 8 squads in europe. List the order. Watch

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    1. Bayern Munich
    2. Real Madrid
    3. Man City
    4. Barcelona
    5. Chelsea
    6. PSG
    7. Atletico
    8. Juventus
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    (Original post by AndrewSCO)
    Naming 2 of Atleti's best players and saying they are better than 2 of the lesser players from PSG I mentioned does not change the fact that the overall, whole squad is better.
    Your naming 5-8 Juve and PSG players and concluding from that that their "whole squad is better" isn't exactly better reasoning...

    You list Atléti's outgoing transfers, implying that their squad is worse because of them, but completely ignore their signings and the fact that they've replaced their losses comparatively well, even upgraded on some and improved their overall squad depth in all areas, so definitely have a stronger squad this season.

    And your "none of X's players come close to the quality of A, B, C, D" argument proves that one club might have some individuals that are better than all individuals of the other club, but not that they have the overall better squad (or even that all of their individuals are better). It's not a good comparison either, it would make more sense to compare individual players with their counterparts in the same position, rather than "any of Atlético's players" with "Ronaldo, Bale, Kroos, Modric, James..". Not to mention that this is completely ignoring squad balance.
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    1. Bayern Munich
    2. Barcelona
    3. Real Madrid
    4. Juventus
    5. Manchester City
    6. Chelsea
    7. PSG
    8. Athletico Madrid.
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    Then it makes absolutely no sense why you put Real top. Atletico shouldn't be bottom either
    Because Real has a better selection of defenders and midfielders than Barca? Real may have a relatively weak def too but they have the best midfield in the world and have the second best attack. Atletico may have a solid selection of players in each position but with big names gone they don't excel in any area and so are 8th IMO. Of course you'll disagree with this but this is my opinion, to each their own - I just feel Barca are slightly overrated.
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    (Original post by qua)
    Your naming 5-8 Juve and PSG players and concluding from that that their "whole squad is better" isn't exactly better reasoning...

    You list Atléti's outgoing transfers, implying that their squad is worse because of them, but completely ignore their signings and the fact that they've replaced their losses comparatively well, even upgraded on some and improved their overall squad depth in all areas, so definitely have a stronger squad this season.

    And your "none of X's players come close to the quality of A, B, C, D" argument proves that one club might have some individuals that are better than all individuals of the other club, but not that they have the overall better squad (or even that all of their individuals are better). It's not a good comparison either, it would make more sense to compare individual players with their counterparts in the same position, rather than "any of Atlético's players" with "Ronaldo, Bale, Kroos, Modric, James..". Not to mention that this is completely ignoring squad balance.
    Their squad is worse this season than last in my opinion. Mandzukic is a good player but not as good as Costa (I'm a Bayern fan I know about Mandzu), Griezemann is a very good signing too. If you think Atleti's squad is better than whoever than that's fine by me, as long as your actually comparing the group of players not the team and manager, then cool. To me, saying they have better players than Real Madrid or Bayern is ludicrous to me but anywhere other than that I will respect.

    With the respect to the bolded part, I believe that was the argument being used against me, not that I used (or at least started). And I couldn't be bothered naming 15-20 players from each club. If you're that interested though:

    Bayern: Neuer, Reina, Lahm, Rafinha, Boateng, Dante, Badstuber, Benatia, Alaba, Bernat, Schweinsteiger, Alonso, Thiago, Martinez, Gotze, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Pizarro, Shaqiri, Rode, Hojbjerg...

    Real Madrid: Casillas, Navas, Ramos, Pepe, Varane, Arbeloa, Carvajal, Marcelo, Coentrao, Kroos, Modric, Illaramendi, Khedira, Isco, James, Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Hernandez, Jese...

    Really think Atletico's squad is better than those?

    Edit: I realise you were probably only arguing against PSG, but still, in reply to the person who put Atleti top
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    (Original post by jam278)
    Currently I'd put top 8 as.
    1-2. Bayern/Real.
    3-4. Barcelona/Atlético
    5-6. Chelsea/City
    7. PSG
    8. Juventus.

    Although I would probably swap Chelsea's position with Atlético due to buying Diego Costa and Fabregas, we also are keeping Courtois so that weakens their squad by quite a bit.

    Bayern to me probably have the most balanced squad personnel wise and I put them next to Real despite the thrashing.

    PSG are above dortmund and Juve though. Juve and Dortmund are close though. 102 points in the league is nothing to be sniffed at so I'll put them above Dortmund.

    Anyway who do you think are the top 8 and what order?
    1. Bayern Munchen
    2. Real Madrid
    3. Dortmund
    4. Barca
    5. City
    6. PSG
    7. Chelsea
    8. Athletico Madrid
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    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    GK: United easily
    CBs: Both a bit ****, about the same.
    FBs: Liverpool's weakest point, United's aren't great but still better.
    CMs: Liverpool, Herrera helps but not enough
    CAM: United by miles - 3 top players
    Wingers: Liverpool
    Forwards: Liverpool unless Suarez goes, which he almost certainly is, so United.

    United better in 4 areas, Liverpool in 2, 1 too close to call.
    Liverpool definitely don't have better CM's than United, Blind, Carrick, Fletcher, Herrera and occasionally Di Maria are better than Liverpool's. Also, Rooney, RVP and Falcao are better than Sturridge, Lambert and Balotelli. Finally I'd rather have Di Maria over Sterling tbh, that's if you were to play Di Maria as a winger.
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    (Original post by xmertic)
    Liverpool definitely don't have better CM's than United, Blind, Carrick, Fletcher, Herrera and occasionally Di Maria are better than Liverpool's. Also, Rooney, RVP and Falcao are better than Sturridge, Lambert and Balotelli. Finally I'd rather have Di Maria over Sterling tbh, that's if you were to play Di Maria as a winger.
    Yeah the signings have changed things since I made that post.

    I'm not sure Blind makes enough difference to pull us clear of Liverpool, but CM is about the same.
    Di Maria makes our wings better, if he's played there.
    Strikers we're better of course.
    But they've improved CB and FB and are now better there.
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    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    Yeah the signings have changed things since I made that post.

    I'm not sure Blind makes enough difference to pull us clear of Liverpool, but CM is about the same.
    Di Maria makes our wings better, if he's played there.
    Strikers we're better of course.
    But they've improved CB and FB and are now better there.
    I won't lie... I haven't really seen Blind play other than in the WC. But going of that alone, he is worthy of being acknowledged as world class. He was incredibly good for Holland at both LWB and CDM. He's an asset for United.

    Well with United playing with 3 at the back and 2 wing backs so far Di Maria has only been played CM... but let's face it a winger normally.
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    (Original post by xmertic)
    I won't lie... I haven't really seen Blind play other than in the WC. But going of that alone, he is worthy of being acknowledged as world class. He was incredibly good for Holland at both LWB and CDM. He's an asset for United.

    Well with United playing with 3 at the back and 2 wing backs so far Di Maria has only been played CM... but let's face it a winger normally.
    No.

    When I think of players being considered as world class, I ask myself if they could get into a World XI squad. If they could get into a squad of about 20-22 players then they are world class imo. I think that's a fair way of doing it, a couple of players for each position. World class, good enough to get into a world team. Blind would get nowhere near it.

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    Man I'm getting in a lot of arguments in this thread
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    (Original post by AndrewSCO)
    No.

    When I think of players being considered as world class, I ask myself if they could get into a World XI squad. If they could get into a squad of about 20-22 players then they are world class imo. I think that's a fair way of doing it, a couple of players for each position. World class, good enough to get into a world team. Blind would get nowhere near it.

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    Man I'm getting in a lot of arguments in this thread
    First team for the third best team in the latest WC... that makes him world class. Besides it's completely subjective, you need't criticize my opinion on a topic that is completely subjective.


    That's why you are getting in to arguments on this thread because you clearly can't accept at least my opinion.
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    (Original post by automathematic)
    Because Real has a better selection of defenders and midfielders than Barca? Real may have a relatively weak def too but they have the best midfield in the world and have the second best attack. Atletico may have a solid selection of players in each position but with big names gone they don't excel in any area and so are 8th IMO. Of course you'll disagree with this but this is my opinion, to each their own - I just feel Barca are slightly overrated.
    But they don't have a better selection of defender and midfielders than bayern? Madrids defence is so overrated. They couldn't even control the game against sociedad.

    If anything barca are underrated. They have the best player in the world with messi. Suarez who was actually being compared to messi and ronaldo last season, neymar who is most likely a future best player in the world. Iniesta who is still one of the best midfielders in the world.

    No ones attack is better than theirs, not even real's.
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    I;m sorry but Blind is simply not world class. Playing for a world class team doesn't make you a world class player. The fact that he played for Holland simply shows how weak the Dutch team were in that particular position. If there was a true world class player available in that role (LWB), then I doubt he'd even make the squad. Stefan de Vrij and Vlaar were the reason the Dutch team had a decent defence in the WC.
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    (Original post by xmertic)
    First team for the third best team in the latest WC... that makes him world class. Besides it's completely subjective, you need't criticize my opinion on a topic that is completely subjective.


    That's why you are getting in to arguments on this thread because you clearly can't accept at least my opinion.
    I'm just saying I strongly disagree with it. And the last 'argument' started because someone replied and disagreed with my opinion

    (Original post by automathematic)
    I;m sorry but Blind is simply not world class. Playing for a world class team doesn't make you a world class player. The fact that he played for Holland simply shows how weak the Dutch team were in that particular position. If there was a true world class player available in that role (LWB), then I doubt he'd even make the squad. Stefan de Vrij and Vlaar were the reason the Dutch team had a decent defence in the WC.
    This. Blind had a great couple of games at the start (more from an attacking point of view) but even that tailed off towards the end.
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    But they don't have a better selection of defender and midfielders than bayern? Madrids defence is so overrated. They couldn't even control the game against sociedad.

    If anything barca are underrated. They have the best player in the world with messi. Suarez who was actually being compared to messi and ronaldo last season, neymar who is most likely a future best player in the world. Iniesta who is still one of the best midfielders in the world.

    No ones attack is better than theirs, not even real's.
    Madrid midfield edges it over Bayern. You're looking too much into the starting XI of all the teams. I don't even like R. Madrid but they have the best squad - it's almost unquestionable.

    Looking at the midfield of Real and Bayern and comparing the two with players that often don't make the starting XI:

    Asier I. , Isco, Khedira > Thiago A, J. Martinez, Hojbjerg

    but starting XI:

    Kroos, Modric, J. Rodriguez < Lahm, Schweini, Alonso

    Madrid have the best all round squad but Bayern are a close second. I agree about Real's def. but Casillas needs to just leave. Plus in that game, they chose Pepe ahead of Varane; Marcelo played instead of Fabio C. And also I prefer Arbeloa over Carvajal.
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    (Original post by AndrewSCO)
    No.

    When I think of players being considered as world class, I ask myself if they could get into a World XI squad. If they could get into a squad of about 20-22 players then they are world class imo. I think that's a fair way of doing it, a couple of players for each position. World class, good enough to get into a world team. Blind would get nowhere near it.

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    Man I'm getting in a lot of arguments in this thread
    I think that's a bit restrictive. Eg in the attacking mid spot you'd have Iniesta and one of Mata/Silva/Ozil/James, meaning 3 of those aren't world class. And wingers, only 4 out of Ronaldo/Bale/Robben/Ribery/Reus/Di Maria/Hazard... for me there's about 5 world class players in each position (more for the ones mentioned, less for RB/LB).
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    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    I think that's a bit restrictive. Eg in the attacking mid spot you'd have Iniesta and one of Mata/Silva/Ozil/James, meaning 3 of those aren't world class. And wingers, only 4 out of Ronaldo/Bale/Robben/Ribery/Reus/Di Maria/Hazard... for me there's about 5 world class players in each position (more for the ones mentioned, less for RB/LB).
    That's a fair point. I probably won't put every player you mentioned into the world class bracket but agree there is more than just 2/3 players in some positions.
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    (Original post by AndrewSCO)
    I'm just saying I strongly disagree with it. And the last 'argument' started because someone replied and disagreed with my opinion



    This. Blind had a great couple of games at the start (more from an attacking point of view) but even that tailed off towards the end.
    Yeah, but there is no need to tell me.
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    Did somebody call Blind world class....

    Also Dortmund should be nowhere near the top 3, they're lucky to be in the top 8 when they can't even get between 20 points of Bayern Munich.
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    (Original post by AndrewSCO)
    Their squad is worse this season than last in my opinion. Mandzukic is a good player but not as good as Costa (I'm a Bayern fan I know about Mandzu), Griezemann is a very good signing too. If you think Atleti's squad is better than whoever than that's fine by me, as long as your actually comparing the group of players not the team and manager, then cool. To me, saying they have better players than Real Madrid or Bayern is ludicrous to me but anywhere other than that I will respect.

    With the respect to the bolded part, I believe that was the argument being used against me, not that I used (or at least started). And I couldn't be bothered naming 15-20 players from each club. If you're that interested though:

    Bayern: Neuer, Reina, Lahm, Rafinha, Boateng, Dante, Badstuber, Benatia, Alaba, Bernat, Schweinsteiger, Alonso, Thiago, Martinez, Gotze, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Pizarro, Shaqiri, Rode, Hojbjerg...

    Real Madrid: Casillas, Navas, Ramos, Pepe, Varane, Arbeloa, Carvajal, Marcelo, Coentrao, Kroos, Modric, Illaramendi, Khedira, Isco, James, Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Hernandez, Jese...

    Really think Atletico's squad is better than those?

    Edit: I realise you were probably only arguing against PSG, but still, in reply to the person who put Atleti top
    I did not put Atlético's squad top. I just put it above PSG unless somebody else put it in the thread.

    It doesn't matter about Mandzukic vs Costa as they've got Griezmann to replace Villa (he's played up top a couple of games) and then Raul Gimenez+Angel Correa(Correa is highly rated in Argentina) to add depth so arguably more depth in attack than last season.
 
 
 
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