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Bakery refuses to make "gay cake"; faces legal action Watch

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    (Original post by Radicalathiest)
    No I want equality

    I want a world where people aren't discriminated against because they are gay or bisexual or black or asian or white

    If it takes the law to achieve this because of a few bigoted faith heads then so be it

    But 'propaganda' it was a wedding cake FFS

    But is see from your user name you are a faith head so I'll ask you WWJD?
    Equality is a complete fantasy.

    That is a world which will never exist, and is merely a dream world. They had every right to deny service since they are a shop, and shops can deny service to customers.
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    (Original post by EatAndRevise)
    and shops can deny service to customers.
    On what grounds?
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    (Original post by Radicalathiest)
    On what grounds?
    On the grounds that it is completely legal to do so, if the boss of a store wishes to deny service to a customer, they can do so.
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    (Original post by EatAndRevise)
    On the grounds that it is completely legal to do so, if the boss of a store wishes to deny service to a customer, they can do so.
    Nope they have to give a reason.

    So again on what grounds?
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    (Original post by Radicalathiest)
    Nope they have to give a reason.

    So again on what grounds?
    I do believe a store can refuse to serve anyone they wish and they do not need a reason to do so, but if they can be proven to be discriminating against the customer, appropriate legal action will follow.

    It is their store, therefore they have every right to refuse entry.
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    (Original post by EatAndRevise)
    I do believe a store can refuse to serve anyone they wish and they do not need a reason to do so, but if they can be proven to be discriminating against the customer, appropriate legal action will follow.

    It is their store, therefore they have every right to refuse entry.
    True but there has to be a reason

    you'd be on very shaky ground to prove it wasn't discriminatory if you tried it and I would expect it to be challenged very rigorously
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    This is so stupid. They weren't refusing service because of the customer, they were refusing it because of the product. I completely understand the plight of the bakery and I am saddened by the way the law is being influenced to seem overly PC.
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    1) As Tom says above, it's not about the customer, it's about the product. If a heterosexual man had gone in asking them to make that product, they would still have refused. Just as they refuse any requests for sexual imagery or offensive language. If that is allowed, given one person's "offensive language" is another man's native tongue, surely they are allowed to If they had a row of these cakes all made, but refused to sell it to a gay person, that would be different.


    2) We don't need a (taxpayer-funded) Commission involving itself in this. The organisers of the event, having had their order rejected and taken their refund, went to a different bakery where the people were happy to make their cake. If you think it's an outrage, make sure you don't go to the first bakery. Find the details of the second one, share them online for all the world to see, and recommend them to anyone you know in that town. Refuse the "homophobes" your custom, they will lose money and face the consequences. Each person has to decide for themselves whether they're willing to do business with someone who behaves like this. Free markets in action.
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    Private businesspeople are threatened with legal action for refusing to take someone's money in exchange for making a product which makes a clear statement in favour of something they oppose. :no:

    This should deeply offend anyone who cares at all about living in a free society.

    (Original post by goldenfish)
    The bakery is a private business, they should have the right to choose who they decide to make business with.
    Agreed entirely.
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    Oh, well fair enough. I assumed from the content of your post relating to the B&B case that you were making a statement about what the law is, rather than what it should be.

    P.S. It is possible to express opinions about what the law requires.
    No problem my friend.
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    (Original post by Radicalathiest)
    True but there has to be a reason

    you'd be on very shaky ground to prove it wasn't discriminatory if you tried it and I would expect it to be challenged very rigorously
    It's their business, they get to discriminate.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    It's their business, they get to discriminate.
    Not according to the Equality Act and past cases.
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    (Original post by JG1233)
    Not according to the Equality Act and past cases.
    As I have said before in the thread.

    The law is wrong in this case.
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    (Original post by JG1233)
    Not according to the Equality Act and past cases.
    It's only illegal to discriminate on certain – some would say arbitrary and inconsistent – protected characteristics, such as sexuality, race et cetera.

    As long as you steer clear of them, you can discriminate as much as you damn well like and no, you don't have to give a reason to anybody.

    Which really is what this debate hinges on. I agree the shop discriminated, but was it on grounds of sexuality or political views? If the latter, no crime.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    As I have said before in the thread.

    The law is wrong in this case.
    That's a matter of opinion, i think the law on cannabis is wrong, doesn't mean i don't have to abide by it. Same applies her, in my opinion the Equality Act is a good thing, don't really want to go back to days where shops were segregated on race etc.
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    (Original post by JG1233)
    That's a matter of opinion, i think the law on cannabis is wrong, doesn't mean i don't have to abide by it. Same applies her, in my opinion the Equality Act is a good thing, don't really want to go back to days where shops were segregated on race etc.
    It's a citizens responsibility to break an unjust law.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    It's only illegal to discriminate on certain – some would say arbitrary and inconsistent – protected characteristics, such as sexuality, race et cetera.

    As long as you steer clear of them, you can discriminate as much as you damn well like and no, you don't have to give a reason to anybody.

    Which really is what this debate hinges on. I agree the shop discriminated, but was it on grounds of sexuality or political views? If the latter, no crime.
    If you checked my previous posts on this thread, i know and have been arguing there would be no legal case in this instance as they didn't discriminate against the customer in any way, they just refused to make that particular cake as they didn't agree with the political message.

    And those characteristics are what people are discriminated against usually anyway, so despite there being only a limited amount they are still effective.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    It's a citizens responsibility to break an unjust law.
    When is a law 'unjust' though? Just because you think it is?

    Unless 100% of the population are opposed to the law, it being unjust is simply your opinion and breaking a law just because you don't agree with it is not only never going to work but just fairly ignorant. Plenty of people support the Equality Act, so by breaking that law you cannot claim to be some sort of activist and fighting for the people.
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    (Original post by tc92)
    1) As Tom says above, it's not about the customer, it's about the product. If a heterosexual man had gone in asking them to make that product, they would still have refused. Just as they refuse any requests for sexual imagery or offensive language. If that is allowed, given one person's "offensive language" is another man's native tongue, surely they are allowed to If they had a row of these cakes all made, but refused to sell it to a gay person, that would be different.


    2) We don't need a (taxpayer-funded) Commission involving itself in this. The organisers of the event, having had their order rejected and taken their refund, went to a different bakery where the people were happy to make their cake. If you think it's an outrage, make sure you don't go to the first bakery. Find the details of the second one, share them online for all the world to see, and recommend them to anyone you know in that town. Refuse the "homophobes" your custom, they will lose money and face the consequences. Each person has to decide for themselves whether they're willing to do business with someone who behaves like this. Free markets in action.
    this
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    (Original post by JG1233)
    When is a law 'unjust' though? Just because you think it is?

    Unless 100% of the population are opposed to the law, it being unjust is simply your opinion
    It would still be an opinion if 100% of the population were opposed to the law, everything is an opinion, morality is not iron-clad it is entirely subjective and ever changing based on the whims of the masses.

    and breaking a law just because you don't agree with it is not only never going to work but just fairly ignorant. Plenty of people support the Equality Act, so by breaking that law you cannot claim to be some sort of activist and fighting for the people.
    Often people are wrong, and are to stupid to realize it.
 
 
 
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