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A shocking experience with dentistry/medicine students!! Watch

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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    The amount of time spent in post-qual training depends on the specialism (many medical specialisms require much longer periods) and hospital training is not typically nearly as onerous for dentists
    lol, im 100% sure oral surgery is more onerous than dermatology or radiology for example.
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    (Original post by sbj)
    If you meet those kind of students, just tell them you study maths. It works perfect. Because they are below Mathematicians/Physicist by far and they know it.
    This is the funniest joke I have seen in ages.

    Let me tell you something, I'm a med student with 100% in all my further math modules, yes, every single one of them. I doubt I would find many math/physics students who achieved that at my university.

    Most medical students have sufficient grades to get into Math or Physics at university, so why would we feel below Mathematicians/Physicists?

    Even if what they learn in university is "academically" harder than what we do (which I doubt, medicine and math/physics requires a different mindset and neither is harder than the other), don't worry because we won't feel we are "below" them, since we know we are perfectly capable to get that place and study the same course and likely to do better than them if we did choose to.

    Your post has completely no logic
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    (Original post by sky_med)
    This is the funniest joke I have seen in ages.

    Let me tell you something, I'm a med student with 100% in all my further math modules, yes, every single one of them. I doubt I would find many math/physics students who achieved that at my university.

    Most medical students have sufficient grades to get into Math or Physics at university, so why would we feel below Mathematicians/Physicists?

    Even if what they learn in university is "academically" harder than what we do (which I doubt, medicine and math/physics requires a different mindset and neither is harder than the other), don't worry because we won't feel we are "below" them, since we know we are perfectly capable to get that place and study the same course and likely to do better than them if we did choose to.

    Your post has completely no logic
    The majority of medical/dental students at the majority of universities will be better at maths than those studying maths at university
    E.G Sheffield only asks for AAB-ABB for maths, id argue a large number of medics/dentists got A*s in maths a levels.
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    Sadly, I'm not surprised. I'm doing humanities so they'd probably beat me up!

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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Only for core courses - some medicine courses are longer, and then there's the additional post-quali training requirements, typically more onerous for medics
    ITT: medic tries to convince himself he is superior to dentists. Fails miserably.
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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    The standard course is 5 years for both, dentists who choose to work in hospitals train for the same amount of time as doctors to become consultants and what not.
    Theres no way a medic can look down on a dentist, GPs and GDPs are basically synonymous.
    You could argue dentists laugh at medics since they earn a great deal more than them despite working half their hours.
    I have to say i totally disagree. Dentists are highly important professionals in the healthcare system, however i think its unfair to call them on the same level as doctors. Most hight street dentists have nothing more than a 5 year undergrad bachelors degree. Thats pretty much all it takes to be a dentist. However a doctor will have the same 5 year degree however they are only junior doctors. Thus the level of knowledge of a dentist is identical (in quantity terms of course) to that of a junior doctor. Now to be a GP (which is commonly regarded as quickest speciality) it takes 5 years of medical school, plus 1 year intercalation (as its pretty much the norm for medics now), plus 2 years of foundation training plus 4 years of speciality training plus higher postgraduate exams such as the MRCGP and MRCP, plus postgraduate diplomas, plus CCT exams just to successfully qualify as a GP. Therefore GPs are far more qualified than GDP dentists, reflecting the higher complexity of the speciality compared to dentistry, and it is thus unfair and incorrect to put them in the same category as dentists. They are more akin to orthodontists.

    In my opinion GDP dentists are more similar to pharmacists (i.e. both just need an undergrad degree and one year post qualification training to practise)

    And also, average salaried full time GPs earn slightly more than full time dentists. Check your facts.
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    (Original post by Thewildcat)
    I have to say i totally disagree. Dentists are highly important professionals in the healthcare system, however i think its unfair to call them on the same level as doctors. Most hight street dentists have nothing more than a 5 year undergrad bachelors degree. Thats pretty much all it takes to be a dentist. However a doctor will have the same 5 year degree however they are only junior doctors. Thus the level of knowledge of a dentist is identical (in quantity terms of course) to that of a junior doctor. Now to be a GP (which is commonly regarded as quickest speciality) it takes 5 years of medical school, plus 1 year intercalation (as its pretty much the norm for medics now), plus 2 years of foundation training plus 4 years of speciality training plus higher postgraduate exams such as the MRCGP and MRCP, plus postgraduate diplomas, plus CCT exams just to successfully qualify as a GP. Therefore GPs are far more qualified than GDP dentists, reflecting the higher complexity of the speciality compared to dentistry, and it is thus unfair and incorrect to put them in the same category as dentists. They are more akin to orthodontists.

    In my opinion GDP dentists are more similar to pharmacists (i.e. both just need an undergrad degree and one year post qualification training to practise)

    And also, average salaried full time GPs earn slightly more than full time dentists. Check your facts.
    GPs and GDPs are synonymous because they're essential primary care. Dentists are not similar to pharmacists at all rofl. Dentists are primary care givers, do invasive surgeries and have twice their salary. The reason why medicine and dentistry are separated is historic, not a single medic can do any procedure a dentist can without a dentistry degree.
    Look at the hours full time GPs work, its often a lot more than 9-5. I was talking whist medics are training anyway, dentists work half their hours and earn twice as much. Just because they train longer it doesn't mean the speciality is more complex. Go ask a psychiatrist how much of medical school they actually needed to be a psychiatrist.
    Besides, I was mostly talking about medics and dentists at university. Both courses require the same entry requirements, same application process, same length and pretty much the same competition. ie any dental student would have just as much of a chance to get into medical school than any of the medics - this is why they're not similar to pharmacists. Again, I was talking about university.
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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    GPs and GDPs are synonymous because they're essential primary care. Dentists are not similar to pharmacists at all rofl. Dentists are primary care givers, do invasive surgeries and have twice their salary. The reason why medicine and dentistry are separated is historic, not a single medic can do any procedure a dentist can without a dentistry degree.
    Look at the hours full time GPs work, its often a lot more than 9-5. I was talking whist medics are training anyway, dentists work half their hours and earn twice as much. Just because they train longer it doesn't mean the speciality is more complex. Go ask a psychiatrist how much of medical school they actually needed to be a psychiatrist.
    Besides, I was mostly talking about medics and dentists at university. Both courses require the same entry requirements, same application process, same length and pretty much the same competition. ie any dental student would have just as much of a chance to get into medical school than any of the medics - this is why they're not similar to pharmacists. Again, I was talking about university.
    I was talking about the qualifications needed to be a pharmacist are more or less the same (in quantity terms) to that of a dentist. i.e. both need an undergrad and one year post qualification to practise

    And actually no, the longer the training is, the more complex the speciality. Is orthodontists just as complex as a GDP dentist? No, because orthodontists have to study for higher postgraduate exams such as the MFDS and do extra training. GPs have to do EXACTLY the same thing and hence deserve the same respect. The cash-stripped NHS is not stupid, paying for doctors to do medical school and then speciality training if the same outcome can be gained in half the time-in a tailor made program. It cannot. Hence why GPs NEED longer training as the speciality is far more complex than can possibly be covered in a 5 year undergrad.

    And lastly, salaried 9-5 GPs do make significantly more than the average GDP dentists.

    Average Dentist salary= £61000 source: http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB11473

    Average salaried GP income= £ 71000
    source: The BMA website where it says "The cost to a GP practice of employing a salaried GP consists of, on average, a salary of £71,0001(full time equivalent) plus 12.8% National Insurance contributions and 14% employer's superannuation"

    http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/gp-practices/focus-on-taking-on-new-partners


    If you mean medical student vs dental student, then yes, they are the same
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    (Original post by Thewildcat)
    I was talking about the qualifications needed to be a pharmacist are more or less the same (in quantity terms) to that of a dentist. i.e. both need an undergrad and one year post qualification to practise

    And actually no, the longer the training is, the more complex the speciality. Is orthodontists just as complex as a GDP dentist? No, because orthodontists have to study for higher postgraduate exams such as the MFDS and do extra training. GPs have to do EXACTLY the same thing and hence deserve the same respect. The cash-stripped NHS is not stupid, paying for doctors to do medical school and then speciality training if the same outcome can be gained in half the time-in a tailor made program. It cannot. Hence why GPs NEED longer training as the speciality is far more complex than can possibly be covered in a 5 year undergrad.

    And lastly, salaried 9-5 GPs do make significantly more than the average GDP dentists.

    Average Dentist salary= £61000 source: http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB11473

    Average salaried GP income= £ 71000
    source: The BMA website where it says "The cost to a GP practice of employing a salaried GP consists of, on average, a salary of £71,0001(full time equivalent) plus 12.8% National Insurance contributions and 14% employer's superannuation"

    http://bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/gp-practices/focus-on-taking-on-new-partners


    If you mean medical student vs dental student, then yes, they are the same
    This was my main point.
    GPs often work much longer hours than dentists and dentists can work longer hours to increase their salary since they're self employed and are paid based on the amount of procedures they do.
    But yes, I agree that a GP has to make more sacrifices. Their medical training/residency is grueling and quite frankly the amount of hours they work in residency is not even slightly matched by their abysmal salaries.
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    Hardly God's greatest gift if you make it to med school in all fairness...

    It's rigorous but many other degrees are too...
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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    This was my main point.
    GPs often work much longer hours than dentists and dentists can work longer hours to increase their salary since they're self employed and are paid based on the amount of procedures they do.
    But yes, I agree that a GP has to make more sacrifices. Their medical training/residency is grueling and quite frankly the amount of hours they work in residency is not even slightly matched by their abysmal salaries.

    Its not all about the money. Its the rewarding nature of medicine that money can't buy. Ur an idiot if u went into dentistry for the money, coz there isn't any. As a medical student I've already saved 2 peoples lives by resuscitating them. I saw them the next day talking to their family and that moment was probably the highlight of my life so far. How many lives have u saved?
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    (Original post by Thewildcat)
    Its not all about the money. Its the rewarding nature of medicine that money can't buy. Ur an idiot if u went into dentistry for the money, coz there isn't any. As a medical student I've already saved 2 peoples lives by resuscitating them. I saw them the next day talking to their family and that moment was probably the highlight of my life so far. How many lives have u saved?
    Im not a medical or dental student. There is money in dentistry, evidently.
    http://gyazo.com/7b1df3c4b35e009c72d7eb8f8d8ccb72
    Dentistry is rewarding from a cosmetic point of view, people go to dentists who cant smile in public and have very low self confidence. Oral surgeons are involved in the saving of lives. As are firefighters, paramedics, nurses etc.
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    This is from someone who is hoping to get at least 3 A's in my A2's in August and has applied for an MSci in Biology...

    Personally, I have applied for biology because I love the subject and the prospect of doing 4 years of further studies in a subject I love is worth far more to me than having applied for a course that either gives me a reason to "look down" on people, having my long term employment prospects improved or simply for the money.

    I'm sure I would have had a reasonable chance to get into dentistry or medicine if I had wished and people do ask me why I didn't apply for it. It annoys me when people go to university purely for the employment prospects or prestige that follows.

    Don't get me wrong, I want a job (or an equivalent academic position) from my degree in biology - but I'd much rather love what I'm doing in the years I spend in higher education than do something I merely like just to get a few grand more.

    My philosophy is you don't have to get the highest marks or apply for the most prestigious course to get the job or career you want. If you love what you're doing enough then you'll find your way and others will see and respect that.

    Those that use their degree or career choice to belittle others will be those I do the same to when the honeymoon period has worn off and they're "living for the weekend" as they chose a degree for the wrong reasons.

    Meanwhile, I'll be sat enjoying whatever research or less well-paid job I find myself doing, but at least being content knowing I've followed my enthusiasm for the subject I love.

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    (Original post by MarkProbio)
    This is from someone who is hoping to get at least 3 A's in my A2's in August and has applied for an MSci in Biology...

    Personally, I have applied for biology because I love the subject and the prospect of doing 4 years of further studies in a subject I love is worth far more to me than having applied for a course that either gives me a reason to "look down" on people, having my long term employment prospects improved or simply for the money.

    I'm sure I would have had a reasonable chance to get into dentistry or medicine if I had wished and people do ask me why I didn't apply for it. It annoys me when people go to university purely for the employment prospects or prestige that follows.

    Don't get me wrong, I want a job (or an equivalent academic position) from my degree in biology - but I'd much rather love what I'm doing in the years I spend in higher education than do something I merely like just to get a few grand more.

    My philosophy is you don't have to get the highest marks or apply for the most prestigious course to get the job or career you want. If you love what you're doing enough then you'll find your way and others will see and respect that.

    Those that use their degree or career choice to belittle others will be those I do the same to when the honeymoon period has worn off and they're "living for the weekend" as they chose a degree for the wrong reasons.

    Meanwhile, I'll be sat enjoying whatever research or less well-paid job I find myself doing, but at least being content knowing I've followed my enthusiasm for the subject I love.

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    I dont think biology is considered a degree for medicine/dentistry rejects. Its mostly pharmacy/bio medical science/optometry
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    (Original post by Thewildcat)
    Its not all about the money. Its the rewarding nature of medicine that money can't buy. Ur an idiot if u went into dentistry for the money, coz there isn't any. As a medical student I've already saved 2 peoples lives by resuscitating them. I saw them the next day talking to their family and that moment was probably the highlight of my life so far. How many lives have u saved?
    There is lots of money in dentistry.
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    As someone who has applied to and got offers for medicine this year, I do feel I have worked harder than most other people in order to get into medicine at uni, i have to manage a job, volunteering, studying, UKCAT, running clubs at my school, being a head boy, sports and work experience and interviews. Along with trying to have a social life.

    And to get into medicine now you need to show your a people person that gets on well with others as well as the ridiculously high grades. Not all medicine students look down on others. every one does their own degree because thats what they enjoy.

    Yes some of biomed/pharmacy students are people doing that to go on to graduate medicine but not all of them.

    You cant say all medicine students are arrogant dicks and you cant say that all pharmacy/biomed are medicine rejects as they may want a career in that field and have no desire at all to be a doctor.

    Why cant we all learn to get along...

    WORLD PEACE


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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    There is lots of money in dentistry.
    Yh but can you prove it? i want real facts from governing bodies, not arbitrary factoids from the daily fail.

    Ill save you the trouble, average dental earning is around £61k. Thats a very good income, but i wouldn't call that lots of money. IV bankers are earning over 100k in their mid twenties. Thats money.
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    (Original post by Thewildcat)
    Yh but can you prove it? i want real facts from governing bodies, not arbitrary factoids from the daily fail.

    Ill save you the trouble, average dental earning is around £61k. Thats a very good income, but i wouldn't call that lots of money. IV bankers are earning over 100k in their mid twenties. Thats money.
    http://gyazo.com/7b1df3c4b35e009c72d7eb8f8d8ccb72

    This is proof, a study done by LSE.
    You're not going to find some of the facts because dentists are self employed and may be doing a lot of private work.
    An orthodontist/implantologist can be earning more than 100k without even having their own practice.
    There is a lot of money in dentistry because of the LARGE scope for private practice.
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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    http://gyazo.com/7b1df3c4b35e009c72d7eb8f8d8ccb72

    This is proof, a study done by LSE.
    You're not going to find some of the facts because dentists are self employed and may be doing a lot of private work.
    An orthodontist/implantologist can be earning more than 100k without even having their own practice.
    There is a lot of money in dentistry because of the LARGE scope for private practice.
    The figures quoted are old and before expenses are taken into account. Expenses for dentists are generally 20k. Here are the HSCIC figures: http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB11473

    The HSCIC are an official body and their annual report is used by the department of health to review contracts for doctors and dentists. It clearly says that the taxable income (from nhs AND private) for performer (associate) dentists is 61k, a very decent income.
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    (Original post by Thewildcat)
    The figures quoted are old and before expenses are taken into account. Expenses for dentists are generally 20k. Here are the HSCIC figures: http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB11473

    The HSCIC are an official body and their annual report is used by the department of health to review contracts for doctors and dentists. It clearly says that the taxable income (from nhs AND private) for performer (associate) dentists is 61k, a very decent income.
    That study was done last year. It simply says that dentists are highly represented in the 'elite' class along with barristers and judges.
    The HSCIC figures are from dentists who do NHS AND private work. Not dentists who only do private work. Also, it doesn't show the earnings of any speciality dentists. In which case, they will be earning a lot more. Of course a general dentist who is an associate is not going to be earning ridiculous amounts of money, that would be ridiculous.
 
 
 
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