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    (Original post by Rlove95)
    I don't really know much about the conflict since like you've said, most sources are biased (you can usually tell straightaway what side the source is on). However from what I've managed to decipher, it doesn't seem like a clear cut conflict. People are too quick to take sides but I think people just have to realise that to a certain extent both of them are in the wrong.
    Okay, Im going to educate you on what actually started this all off. If you still dont agree that Israel is mostly in the wrong (even though they are completely and utterly wrong, but come on Im compromising here, work with me) then theres literally nothing more any of us can do for you. So please leave my thread.

    Okay so last week, 3 Jewish Israeli teenage boys were walking home, they were kidnapped and murdered. Their bodies were found in shallow graves.
    So, in a revenge attack, Palestinian boys were taken by Isreali soldiers. One of whom was waiting outside the mosque before Fajr. Beaten. Petrol poured on him and forced down his throat. Then set alight.
    And also resulting from these 3 Jewish boys deaths, Isreal has gone crazy and is continuously bombing Gaza.
    Now I havent added any bias here. You need to look at the facts, there are even Jews protesting against their own "holy land"
    Theres plenty more things that I can find for you. But please dont be naive and ignorant in saying that "both sides are wrong to a certain extent"
    In an email that I received recently:

    "The whole of Palestinian history is punctuated by Zionist mass killings and the current one will not be Israel’s last massacre, for Israel insists on the right to starve and attack the people of Gaza without any retaliation. They carried out 160 airstrikes in Gaza overnight, killing dozens, causing huge damage.
    Yesterday was the 10th anniversary of the ruling by the International Court of Justice in the Hague that Israel’s apartheid Wall is illegal.

    Exactly a year later, after our Governments rewarded Israel for its criminality, Palestinians issued their call for BDS to force Israel to comply with international law."

    I hope this was of some help to you
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    (Original post by VeniViciVidi)
    Well, if you wanted to achieve awareness then you have certainly accomplished that, albeit, to a very micro scale.

    But in terms of achieving any geopolitical shift in the region, a protest won't change that. A change in the strategic context for which the land is viewed will only change that. The only real time when states cared about Palestine and Israel was during the Cold War, when the Soviet Union and the the United States backed their proxy respectfully.

    However, the United States is distancing itself from Israel comparatively than what it has otherwise done. In fact, its partnership with Israel is giving it more friction than benefits it brings in some respects.
    Idc if its on a micro scale, like I said the day I made this thread I felt so helpless. If I have even made one person aware or interested in knowing wth is going on then I have achieved something at least.

    Oh gosh, I think weve already established on this thread thats theres nothing we can do in terms of America saying something a word against Israel. And Ill repeat myself again, as long as it gets awareness it doesnt matter. Even if its the tiniest change hopefully it will inspire people to get out there, or at least find out about it.
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    (Original post by katbob)
    Idc if its on a micro scale, like I said the day I made this thread I felt so helpless. If I have even made one person aware or interested in knowing wth is going on then I have achieved something at least.

    Oh gosh, I think weve already established on this thread thats theres nothing we can do in terms of America saying something a word against Israel. And Ill repeat myself again, as long as it gets awareness it doesnt matter. Even if its the tiniest change hopefully it will inspire people to get out there, or at least find out about it.
    Sorry for having a discussion about it, on a forum.
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    (Original post by VeniViciVidi)
    Sorry for having a discussion about it, on a forum.
    Sorry, Ill reply properly. And what you said was actually relevant to my first post

    (Original post by VeniViciVidi)
    Well, if you wanted to achieve awareness then you have certainly accomplished that, albeit, to a very micro scale.

    But in terms of achieving any geopolitical shift in the region, a protest won't change that. A change in the strategic context for which the land is viewed will only change that. The only real time when states cared about Palestine and Israel was during the Cold War, when the Soviet Union and the the United States backed their proxy respectfully.

    However, the United States is distancing itself from Israel comparatively than what it has otherwise done. In fact, its partnership with Israel is giving it more friction than benefits it brings in some respects.
    Ill be honest I dont think Ive achieved anything if even on a tiny scale.

    I get what youre saying, but maybe it might pressure the British into backing off abit?
    You said some fancy stuff which I didnt understand
    And wait actually,do you know what the protest for the BBC was really about???
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    (Original post by Rlove95)
    PRSOM

    This. Israel would have more casualties if they didn't have all these mechanisms to protect their civilians. People shouldn't condemn Israel more just because they are defending themselves better, people should condemn both sides since they both need to just stop killing eachother.
    You have to look at the reasons why things are happening. There is no genuine equality of position between Israel and the Palestinians - the latter are a conquered people who have been driven off most of their traditional land and treated with harsh contempt ever since. Israel is like an elephant swatting at gnats in terms of the balance of power between them. I'm not condoning firing rockets, but the violence coming from Palestinians, whilst often horrible, has origins in profound anger and powerlessness. Israel's often casual violence towards them is like the violence of a slave owner against the slaves when they rebel.
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    (Original post by katbob)
    Sorry, Ill reply properly. And what you said was actually relevant to my first post



    Ill be honest I dont think Ive achieved anything if even on a tiny scale.

    I get what youre saying, but maybe it might pressure the British into backing off abit?
    You said some fancy stuff which I didnt understand
    And wait actually,do you know what the protest for the BBC was really about???
    I think Britain is trying to distance itself as much as diplomatically possible, from what statements from the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary provide.

    And as far as I know, the protests are against pro-Israeli coverage of the Israel-Palestine conflict. In all honesty, this is old news in the grand scheme of things. Both sides have accused the BBC for favouring one over the other at various points in time, especially since Operation Cast Lead in 2008. But perhaps that's a reasonable assumption that the BBC operates with a fair amount impartiality?
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    (Original post by katbob)
    Okay, Im going to educate you on what actually started this all off. If you still dont agree that Israel is mostly in the wrong (even though they are completely and utterly wrong, but come on Im compromising here, work with me) then theres literally nothing more any of us can do for you. So please leave my thread.

    Okay so last week, 3 Jewish Israeli teenage boys were walking home, they were kidnapped and murdered. Their bodies were found in shallow graves.
    So, in a revenge attack, Palestinian boys were taken by Isreali soldiers. One of whom was waiting outside the mosque before Fajr. Beaten. Petrol poured on him and forced down his throat. Then set alight.
    And also resulting from these 3 Jewish boys deaths, Isreal has gone crazy and is continuously bombing Gaza.
    Now I havent added any bias here. You need to look at the facts, there are even Jews protesting against their own "holy land"
    Theres plenty more things that I can find for you. But please dont be naive and ignorant in saying that "both sides are wrong to a certain extent"
    In an email that I received recently:

    "The whole of Palestinian history is punctuated by Zionist mass killings and the current one will not be Israel’s last massacre, for Israel insists on the right to starve and attack the people of Gaza without any retaliation. They carried out 160 airstrikes in Gaza overnight, killing dozens, causing huge damage.
    Yesterday was the 10th anniversary of the ruling by the International Court of Justice in the Hague that Israel’s apartheid Wall is illegal.

    Exactly a year later, after our Governments rewarded Israel for its criminality, Palestinians issued their call for BDS to force Israel to comply with international law."

    I hope this was of some help to you
    It's also worth noting that Israel has killed many Palestinian teenagers in recent months, before the recent three Israelis were killed, both during stone-throwing incidents, when troops responded with live ammunition and at border checkpoints.
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    (Original post by lilypear)
    I think you would find that this information is sufficient enough for your pointless arguments:



    Now answer me, whose country was it first?
    Hahaha, ahh I love this. My fb news feed is being spammed with the same historically inaccurate propaganda. I don't think I've seen any unbiased rational posts regarding this conflict.

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    (Original post by arkhamz)
    Hahaha, ahh I love this. My fb news feed is being spammed with the same historically inaccurate propaganda. I don't think I've seen any unbiased rational posts regarding this conflict.

    They're just kids, this issue is fashionable right now. It is rather funny to watch.

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    (Original post by VeniViciVidi)
    I think Britain is trying to distance itself as much as diplomatically possible, from what statements from the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary provide.

    And as far as I know, the protests are against pro-Israeli coverage of the Israel-Palestine conflict. In all honesty, this is old news in the grand scheme of things. Both sides have accused the BBC for favouring one over the other at various points in time, especially since Operation Cast Lead in 2008. But perhaps that's a reasonable assumption that the BBC operates with a fair amount impartiality?
    No, I dont think that at all. I dont think they were expecting this reaction from so many people.

    Yeah its good that its out now, they were making out it was because of the things happening in Palestine and Gaza when it was in fact because of their stance and the fact they weren't showing anything from the Palestinian perspective.
    Haha there is a reasonable assumption. The head of the media coverage for the war is pro Israel. He was even ex military or something. So think about it, is he really going to show Israel in a bad light?
    We have every right to protest, we pay our TV license to the BBC to get a fair coverage and see both sides. (Even though its hardly ever true tbh) but for them to turn it around and twist it by saying that those people were protesting because of the war and not because of unfair coverage is unbelievable!! Although it has stopped now, its getting a bit fairer

    Oh wait, there you go!! theres a protest which has won! Or had a result.. I win guys

    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's also worth noting that Israel has killed many Palestinian teenagers in recent months, before the recent three Israelis were killed, both during stone-throwing incidents, when troops responded with live ammunition and at border checkpoints.
    Lol I know, its not even recent its been going on since 1967
    But I meant whats going on since this new wave in the crisis and what sparked it off.
    I also heard that they take kids away from their parents and arrest them so that the parents will "behave"
    Absolutely vile.
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    Sure..

    Spoiler:
    Show
    ..when Hamas et al. stop attacking Israel :borat:

    (Original post by katbob)
    The fact Israel are doing this during Ramadan is appauling, with them all fasting!
    This fasting business doesn't seem to prevent the rascals from launching rockets does it? Is Israel just supposed to suck it up? :dontknow:#Realness

    Personally I feel that Israel could be more measured in its response, and I think it outrageous the way they are destroying buildings that are not necessarily strictly military targets and killing people therein (although I recognise that they are doing their best to forewarn occupants of impending strikes)

    (Original post by katbob)
    Plus the UK are currently trading with Israel and giving them a discount (which is meant for EU members only :rolleyes:) on the condition that they arent in violation of international laws. Which again they are
    It seems to me that they might be, aye, in which case the UK really ought to take the opportunity to send a clear message..

    (Original post by katbob)
    At least it will make Israels life that tiny bit harder!
    Is that what ‘a good Muslim’ wants? To make the lives of the kafir harder? Or to convince/compel them to act with decency toward their fellow man/Muslim?..

    (Original post by katbob)
    You shoulda spiced it up abit... Got a tad aggressive?
    Yeah, because that will really help the image the rest of society has of Islam.. :rolleyes:

    (Original post by Drewski)
    Name a single protest in the last 25 years that has worked...
    The Hillsborough protests?
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    (Original post by katbob)
    No, I dont think that at all. I dont think they were expecting this reaction from so many people.
    Why don't you think they are trying to distance themselves? As I've said, the alliance with Israel provides more hindrances than benefits at this point in time. Israel, at the same time, has strategic value in the Middle East so it has to maintain relationship as cordially as possible. I would like to see you provide evidence for the contrary.

    I think you're referring to James Harding, who in the past despite his pro-Israel stance, has shown them in negative light. For example, he was the editor at The Times, often cited as pro-Israel where he ran stories of white phosphorous being used by IDF forces. So he has history in showing them in bad light.
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    (Original post by Diamante06)
    this is Palestine retaliation and I support Palestine's right to defend themselves
    (Original post by lilypear)
    Tell me, who has the right to defend themselves?
    You appear perhaps not to be familiar with the security situation and the chronology of the recent escalation. Also, one does not generally ‘defend’ oneself by launching long range, highly destructive rockets indiscriminately, at civilian populations and without direct provocation #Realness

    (Original post by Diamante06)
    78% has been wrongly seized by Israelis
    Were it not for the events leading up to the Six-Day War I’d have a little more time for this notion. As it stands, one can well imagine why Israel has maintained position in related territories – although illegal settlements/further encroachments are obviously not on!

    why can't real change happen in more important matters!!!
    Because Israel’s leadership are not there to appease a TV audience, they’re there to ‘serve the people’

    (Original post by TSA)
    Well said. You can't attack someone and when they retaliate claim you are hard done by
    Actually, you can, if by ‘you’ you mean Palestinians. Hamas may be a democratically elected leadership, and may be responsible for a significant proportion of these rocket attacks, but it is not right that Palestinian civilians should pay the price. If you follow that logic then you are ostensibly saying that we cannot claim we were hard done by re: the 7/7 London bombings

    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    I doubt you would understand
    I doubt many would take lessons from someone who implies that Israel has annihilated another country, nevermind someone who has a picture of Putin as their display pic :facepalm2:

    (Original post by Cyphrex)
    People wonder the reason for some rises in terrorism yet they don't see that situations like this is reason for it's creation
    Horse **** mate, look into the history of the troubles/conflict, and of inter-civilisational mixing dating back through the ages. Blood spillage is an inevitability, although granted these escalations do not help

    (Original post by Cyphrex)
    I don't consider Hamas a terrorist group
    What is a group the uses terror tactics to achieve its objectives if not a terrorist group?

    (Original post by Cyphrex)
    Afghanistan with suspected violation of human rights and rise of terrorist group
    The Afghan War had nothing to do with human rights, it was retaliatory (the American public ostensibly demanded blood) and aimed at knocking out Al-Qaeda

    (Original post by Cyphrex)
    The only way I can see a change is if perhaps another Arab country perhaps decided to intervene and help Gaza but Israel have the backing of the U.S I think perhaps they are to scared of a backlash
    The leadership of other Arab countries rarely give enough of a crap about the fate of the Palestinian people to rock the boat. If Israel wasn’t nuclear armed, or as militarily and strategically (yes, they have important alliances) strong then perhaps they’d flex their muscles but as it stands it’s simply not worth the risks involved

    (Original post by Cyphrex)
    the rise in fundamentalism in Islam is perhaps due to other country
    It’s partly due to the kafir interfering in Muslim lands, for sure, but there is a lot more to it than that. Islamic fundamentalism is not merely a modern phenomenon

    (Original post by interact)
    England, a country which is only nominally Christian but is pretty much Atheistic and so will always favour Israel
    This part is incorrect. Israel finding favour is more to do with US-UK relations (as an extension of US-Israel relations), Judeo-Christian common identity, post-holocaust European guilt, xenophobia, Islamophobia, war on terror and related rejection of ‘terror’ tactics (plus the legacy of our own historic problems with domestic ‘freedom fighters’ [IRA]), and smart media/diplomacy on the part of Israel

    The USA and UK could do nothing to Israel even if they wanted to
    Both could influence Israel if they really wanted to, although quite to what extent is of course debatable

    (Original post by katbob)
    the western countries who hold all the influence and power are all pussies. Too scared of Israel
    It's not that we're scared of Israel, as such

    (Original post by katbob)
    when a middle Eastern country gives them to another. Its the end of the ****ing world!
    Israel is a stable, modern democracy, that has not threatened destruction of an entire country/religion/people. The same cannot be said of certain other powers in that region. Personally I’m for nuclear disarmament all round
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      I would go to the protest if it was a protest aimed at forcing Hamas to stop firing rockets into Israel, otherwise why should I care about a people that are Jordanian not Palestinian as Palestine isn't a country but is an occupied land that needs to be cleansed of terrorists. The West Bank isn't too bad but Gaza, Gaza needs to be eradicated and forced relocation of the so-called 'Palestinians' to the West Bank or Jordan.
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      (Original post by katbob)
      Okay, Im going to educate you on what actually started this all off. If you still dont agree that Israel is mostly in the wrong (even though they are completely and utterly wrong, but come on Im compromising here, work with me) then theres literally nothing more any of us can do for you. So please leave my thread.

      Okay so last week, 3 Jewish Israeli teenage boys were walking home, they were kidnapped and murdered. Their bodies were found in shallow graves.
      So, in a revenge attack, Palestinian boys were taken by Isreali soldiers. One of whom was waiting outside the mosque before Fajr. Beaten. Petrol poured on him and forced down his throat. Then set alight.
      And also resulting from these 3 Jewish boys deaths, Isreal has gone crazy and is continuously bombing Gaza.
      Now I havent added any bias here. You need to look at the facts, there are even Jews protesting against their own "holy land"
      Theres plenty more things that I can find for you. But please dont be naive and ignorant in saying that "both sides are wrong to a certain extent"
      In an email that I received recently:

      "The whole of Palestinian history is punctuated by Zionist mass killings and the current one will not be Israel’s last massacre, for Israel insists on the right to starve and attack the people of Gaza without any retaliation. They carried out 160 airstrikes in Gaza overnight, killing dozens, causing huge damage.
      Yesterday was the 10th anniversary of the ruling by the International Court of Justice in the Hague that Israel’s apartheid Wall is illegal.

      Exactly a year later, after our Governments rewarded Israel for its criminality, Palestinians issued their call for BDS to force Israel to comply with international law."

      I hope this was of some help to you
      You can't tell me to 'leave your thread' just because I might disagree with you that's ridiculous. Anything you say after that is just going to be biased and frankly I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt. I can easily go find a biased pro-Israel and get a completely different story. I know what happened recently, I was referring to the whole conflict.
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      (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
      You have to look at the reasons why things are happening. There is no genuine equality of position between Israel and the Palestinians - the latter are a conquered people who have been driven off most of their traditional land and treated with harsh contempt ever since. Israel is like an elephant swatting at gnats in terms of the balance of power between them. I'm not condoning firing rockets, but the violence coming from Palestinians, whilst often horrible, has origins in profound anger and powerlessness. Israel's often casual violence towards them is like the violence of a slave owner against the slaves when they rebel.
      Fair enough, I can get how Palestinians might be out of their depth. But I thought Palestinians were constantly trying to destroy Israel by sending suicide bombers there and constantly firing rockets there. Israel can't really stand there and keep letting them do that really? I completely condemn Israel's actions because of the high rate of civilian deaths but I can understand why they might be retaliating if they are constantly being attacked. Also it should also be taken into account that they are trying to warn the civilians before attacks while the civilians are still insisting on staying whereas Palestinians are actively trying to kill the civilians without warning? I might be misinformed but I just can't see Israel as the big baddie and Palestine as the helpless victim, the only victims I see here are the civilians caught in between two opposing sides.
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      (Original post by lilypear)
      Actually the US should belong to the native Americans.
      Is it though? that's my point duh! - They are living with it (those that are alive) so should Palestinians accept Israel.
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      (Original post by DeemzBeamz)
      How's it bull****? These are simple facts. The brits gave away our country to a group of zionists without our confirmation. Under what ****ing grounds can you do that?

      No we won't be getting rid of it. Israel will lead to its own self destruction, so don't worry.

      Posted from TSR Mobile
      You're as deluded as the Palestinians. It's happened before in histroy as conquering of lands the world over by Empires, Arabs have done it too so don't act all shocked.

      Long Live Israel and it's people!
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      (Original post by SMEGGGY)
      You're as deluded as the Palestinians. It's happened before in histroy as conquering of lands the world over by Empires, Arabs have done it too so don't act all shocked.

      Long Live Israel and it's people!
      If believing the consequences of Israel's occupation, aggression, injustice and flaunting of international law may lead to its self destruction is deluded, then deluded I shall be.

      Posted from TSR Mobile
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      (Original post by SMEGGGY)
      Is it though? that's my point duh! - They are living with it (those that are alive) so should Palestinians accept Israel.
      They didn't have a choice that all these white people took over their land and claimed it as theirs. There was ZERO religious debate.
     
     
     
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