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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Even if it happened, the circumstances won't be clear.

    There are a lot of amateur analysts saying the smoke rising looks like a failed rocket launch etc.

    I've given up believing anything that comes out of Gaza as it's totally controlled by Hamas and they have lied repeatedly. Hence the legendary 'pallywood' productions.

    Hamas' main weapon against Israel is public relations, not rockets.

    Rockets act as the necessary act to produce the deaths Hamas need.
    see my previous post i forgot to link the un report here:

    http://www.leksikon.org/images/goldstone_gazacrimes.pdf

    theres also a part there that says Israel knew that a UN hospital was occupied by civilians and they targeted it.It also found that the news reports exaggerated the advance notice given for people to get out. thats what happened in 2009 and i doubt israel have stopped targeting civilians since
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    Israel declares humanitarian truce

    A humanitarian truce by Israel has been declared to allow for aid/food etc.

    Let's hope that Hamas stop firing rockets for that period of time.
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    After killing 213 Gazans including innocent kids:

    The scumbags
    Israel will observe a "humanitarian ceasefire" in Gaza, after nine days of deadly rocket and missile exchanges with militants, a senior Israeli army officer told the BBC.
    for 5 hours..
    Gen Mordechai said the civilians in Gaza can take the five hours of ceasefire to stock up on supplies and goods.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28334219
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    it's all over the news.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mid...ildren-n157301
    This article does not confirm anything beyond the fact that they died. It could have been a Hamas rocket falling in Gaza, as several dozens have.

    "It looked as if the shells were chasing them," pffft. Bearing in mind its a Hamas spokesman saying this. I'd believe what the family says but it states they weren't there at the time.
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    (Original post by mightyfrog2_10)
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]After killing 213 Gazans including innocent kids:
    How do we know this figure is genuine (given that Hamas control the Hospitals, Health ministry and what Doctors are permitted to say)

    And how many of those are combatants?

    Bearing in mind that due to the nature of Hamas, when they drop their gun and take off their ski mask - they suddenly become a 'civilian'.
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    The Egyptians had proposed a ceasefire, endorsed by both the UN and the Arab League.

    Seeing as Hamas has rejected both ceasefires, while Israel accepted both of them, I think its clear who we should blame more deaths on. Its already a double war crime to shoot rockets at Israeli civilians, while hiding behind Palestinian civilians.
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    (Original post by joey11223)
    Can't pretend I follow this, but on BBC news they were saying Netanyahu's response to complaints about airstrikes/civilian deaths is..

    "Hamas attack us first, any civilian causalities from our retaliation is their fault."

    ...I didn't think you could really use that as a defence for killing civilians? I'm not familiar on rules of warfare, or what would be said at international criminal courts say, but it seems weak.
    They are not intentionally targeting civilians, but military targets where civilians have to be. If someone is firing rockets at you then you have to strike back. Britain did much worse than this in WW2 and nobody bats an eyelid about that.
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    (Original post by GrapeLeaves)
    The Egyptians had proposed a ceasefire, endorsed by both the UN and the Arab League.

    Seeing as Hamas has rejected both ceasefires, while Israel accepted both of them, I think its clear who we should blame more deaths on. Its already a double war crime to shoot rockets at Israeli civilians, while hiding behind Palestinian civilians.
    I think this point ends all debate. If your enemy rejects a ceasefire then you have complete justification for striking back at them.
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    (Original post by james22)
    They are not intentionally targeting civilians, but military targets where civilians have to be. If someone is firing rockets at you then you have to strike back. Britain did much worse than this in WW2 and nobody bats an eyelid about that.
    I've seen videos of them shooting from the back gardens of civilian homes and from schools. Even a UN-run school.

    Channel4 news which is very anti-Israel, did a piece after the 2009 conflict. They interviewed a palestinian (identity concealed for fear of retribution) who said they came to his house to use his grounds to fire rockets, as it was advantageously placed.

    He argued with them not to, because retaliatory strikes would destroy his home - so they knee-capped him for complaining. Shot both his knees out.
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    (Original post by james22)
    I think this point ends all debate. If your enemy rejects a ceasefire then you have complete justification for striking back at them.
    Surprisingly Israel showed a lot of restraint. The ceasefire was to take place at 9:00 am yesterday. Israel accepted it, while a Hamas spokesman in Beirut called it "a joke". Within the first 6 hours after the declared ceasefire, Hamas fired 40 rockets at Israel, while Israel during that time did not fire a single shot at Hamas in Gaza.

    "The Israelis welcomed the ceasefire, the cabinet supported it and as Hamas continued to fire rockets, Israel declined to respond for several hours," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters in Washington on Tuesday.

    "I cannot condemn strongly enough the actions of Hamas in so brazenly firing rockets in multiple numbers in the face of a goodwill effort to offer a ceasefire, in which Egypt and Israel worked together, that the international community strongly supports," Kerry told reporters in Vienna on Tuesday morning.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    I've seen videos of them shooting from the back gardens of civilian homes and from schools. Even a UN-run school.

    Channel4 news which is very anti-Israel, did a piece after the 2009 conflict. They interviewed a palestinian (identity concealed for fear of retribution) who said they came to his house to use his grounds to fire rockets, as it was advantageously placed.

    He argued with them not to, because retaliatory strikes would destroy his home - so they knee-capped him for complaining. Shot both his knees out.
    I'm not saying Israel is perfect, but Hamas does much worse.
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    (Original post by GrapeLeaves)
    This article does not confirm anything beyond the fact that they died. It could have been a Hamas rocket falling in Gaza, as several dozens have.

    "It looked as if the shells were chasing them," pffft. Bearing in mind its a Hamas spokesman saying this. I'd believe what the family says but it states they weren't there at the time.
    Israel also fires rockets at itself.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    Israel also fires rockets at itself.
    Says who? you?
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    (Original post by GrapeLeaves)
    Says who? you?
    not to mention they probably carried out 9/11
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    Israel also fires rockets at itself.
    Can you provide a reliable source backing this statement up?

    EDIT: Though I doubt you could, seeing as your 9/11 comment has made me realize you're a troll.
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    (Original post by james22)
    They are not intentionally targeting civilians, but military targets where civilians have to be. If someone is firing rockets at you then you have to strike back. Britain did much worse than this in WW2 and nobody bats an eyelid about that.
    If no eyelids are batted at Britain's war crimes, then that is to be blamed on the people, and Britain's war crimes are not to be dismissed. As it happens eyelids are batted very frequently at Britain's criminal past in increasingly common disillusioned historical circles. On an equally relevant note, Britain has much of the blame for Israel's current criminality, for Britain had a role to play in the creation of this bestial and inhuman demon that is now Israel. Interesting, though, that you had to shove that bit about Britain's criminal past into your post as a last resort to justifying Israel's current crimes.

    Whether they are intentionally or not intentionally targetting innocents is debatable. It is also irrelevant, as it is a well-known fact that the Gaza strip is one of the most densely populated places on the Earth, and that there is no possible escape for the civilians hopelessly barricaded in there. It is also irrelevant as civilians are being killed every day, and their blood is on Israel's hands, and judging from there being no sign of desistance, that fact doesn't seem to perturb them very much. The only thing that perturbs them is the world's outcry. If communication was not so advanced now, as it wasn't back in 1948 when they committed atrocities and got away with it, Israel would not feel the need to apologise nor explain its criminal conduct, as it didn't back in 1948.
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    (Original post by james22)
    I'm not saying Israel is perfect, but Hamas does much worse.
    Impossible that Hamas does much worse, given its limited resources and opposite, and I dare say much more human, outlook.
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    (Original post by intheTSRspirit)
    If no eyelids are batted at Britain's war crimes, then that is to be blamed on the people, and Britain's war crimes are not to be dismissed. As it happens eyelids are batted very frequently at Britain's criminal past in increasingly common disillusioned historical circles. On an equally relevant note, Britain has much of the blame for Israel's current criminality, for Britain had a role to play in the creation of this bestial and inhuman demon that is now Israel. Interesting, though, that you had to shove that bit about Britain's criminal past into your post as a last resort to justifying Israel's current crimes.

    Whether they are intentionally or not intentionally targetting innocents is debatable. It is also irrelevant, as it is a well-known fact that the Gaza strip is one of the most densely populated places on the Earth, and that there is no possible escape for the civilians hopelessly barricaded in there. It is also irrelevant as civilians are being killed every day, and their blood is on Israel's hands, and judging from there being no sign of desistance, that fact doesn't seem to perturb them very much. The only thing that perturbs them is the world's outcry. If communication was not so advanced now, as it wasn't back in 1948 when they committed atrocities and got away with it, Israel would not feel the need to apologise nor explain its criminal conduct, as it didn't back in 1948.
    It doesn't matter how densely populated it is, what matters is that Hamas is firing rockets from gaza into Israel, and have ignored all requests for a ceasefire, so israel has every right to strike back.
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    Atleast some countries have some decency.
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    What exactly are Israel supposed to do? Sit there and take it?

    Every time an Israeli representative asks this, the reporter always ignores them completely and diverts the discussion off track.

    People ask why Israel attack Palestine when they're not evenly matched at all. Maybe because the elected Palestinian government is constantly firing missiles at them?!

    It feels like the 'little guy' is always the victim.
 
 
 
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