'I don't need feminism because...' Watch

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louieee
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#161
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#161
(Original post by lasertown)
Majority of feminists completely disregard men's issues, and then claim to be advocates of gender equality.

I'm a feminist because I believe in gender equality and I advocate women's rights. I don't think women are supreme or that men are to blame; I also acknowledge that in some aspects of life, men are at a disadvantage/discriminated against. Because of this I also advocate men's rights.


I won't accept people bashing feminism because I think it's ridiculous how someone doesn't believe in gender equality, or that peoples' rights needs to be put forth in areas where they are treated unfairly. And if they claim that I'm being a misandrist because I support feminism, then they are clearly uneducated and don't understand that feminism isn't against male rights. and that I cam also advocate male rights in areas where men are treated unfairly or discriminated against too.

Now I've made this clear, please tell me how being a feminist is wrong.
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lasertown
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#162
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#162
(Original post by louieee)
also we're assuming the fact that feminism and masculism (real word) are exclusive. There isn't a name for advocating everybody's rights (apart from being a decent human), and so...

if I advocate women's rights I'm supporting feminism

if I advocate men's rights I'm supporting masculism



Whichever I support, I'm still believing in gender equality, it's just that each one only focuses on one half of the problem. But whose to say I can't be both? I can advocate women's and men's rights, right? Either way, I'm still a feminist. I'm a masculist, too, but I'm still a feminist.

The girls on the front page with their signs are foolish, they're basically stating that women's rights shouldn't be proposed.

Read this, my reply to someone else:

Read each of the girl's signs. One of them thinks feminism is not about equality, and instead it's about supremacy. Another thinks that feminism is useless because rapists know that they shouldn't rape anyway (I genuinely can't get the logic here at all). Another doesn't want feminism because she realises men have issues too (does she not realise that feminism is for equality of all genders?). Another is against feminism because she doesn't want to demonise men (feminism =/= man-hating) and she takes responsibility for he own actions (is she taking responsibility for her smaller paycheck than her male counterparts too?). Another doesn't need feminism because she doesn't think women are at a disadvantage - well the statistics say otherwise: she's 9x more likely to be raped, and if she's american she gets paid only 77% of her male counterpart. Another doesn't need feminism because she loves men and respects their rights...lol k. And also apparently feminism made her feel in dangers, and it steps on the black community?? Another doesn't need feminism because it apparently implies that she's currently weak (I really can't see the logic there, all it implies is that in some major aspects of her life she isn't going to be considered equal to a male counterpart, for example in media portrayal, job prospects and pay, sexual assault etc).


And now think, all of these girls are being more ridiculous, because they assume that gender equality by advocating women's rights comes at the cost of leaving men's rights behind, but that isn't what it means. Anti-feminism gets a very bad name when it's member 1. don't know the definition of feminism and 2. don'd understand that feminists can't advocate men's rights too.
I would rather just support gender equality as a whole, rather than be a feminist and a masculinist (it's not masculist by the way, it's masculinist). Why over-complicate things?
I disagree with you completely. You want to divide the cause, this is going to create a bigger gap between the genders. It simply makes no sense, and will only further perpetuate the problem at hand.

I have no desire to keep repeating myself, therefore I would prefer it if you would stop responding with the same point.
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lasertown
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#163
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#163
(Original post by louieee)
I'm a feminist because I believe in gender equality and I advocate women's rights. I don't think women are supreme or that men are to blame; I also acknowledge that in some aspects of life, men are at a disadvantage/discriminated against. Because of this I also advocate men's rights.


I won't accept people bashing feminism because I think it's ridiculous how someone doesn't believe in gender equality, or that people rights needs to be put forth in areas where they are treated unfairly. And if they claim that I'm being a misandris because I support feminism, then they are clearly uneducated and don't understand that feminism isn't against male rights and that I also advocate male rights in areas where men are treated unfairly or discriminated against.

Now I've made this clear, please tell me how being a feminist is wrong.
I am really fighting the urge to sigh, right now.

At what point did I say that feminists were wrong? I simply criticised the feminists that disregard men's rights. That's all.

Stop putting words in my mouth, and reading hidden, non-existing meanings in what I am stating. Thank you.
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HigherMinion
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#164
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#164
And yet, even still, no one can actually tell me what they're working towards in any realistic and quantifiable way. What gender equality are you looking for?

-wage gap doesn't exist (in fact it's illegal to discriminate on sex lines for employers in the UK)
-rape epidemic doesn't exist (stats are hyped due to diluted definition used by feminists, also Kashmiri Muslims love it- not so much a white male problem on the whole)
-slut double standard exists for a reason due to evolutionary biology (I posted a graphic on another thread, if you want to read it let me know)
-men and women both express themselves differently. If you want men to express themselves like women then that is misandry.

What I'm getting at is, feminists understand evolutionary biology about as well as Creationists do. Please, prove me wrong. Tell me why you're not insane, and what are you trying to equalise between the sexes?
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louieee
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#165
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#165
(Original post by lasertown)
I would rather just support gender equality as a whole, rather than be a feminist and a masculinist (it's not masculist by the way, it's masculinist). Why over-complicate things?
I disagree with you completely. You want to divide the cause, this is going to create a bigger gap between the genders. It simply makes no sense, and will only further perpetuate the problem at hand.

I have no desire to keep repeating myself, therefore I would prefer it if you would stop responding with the same point.

Supporting equality as a whole still makes you a feminist though! I advocate the rights of everyone within significant aspects of their life when they are treated unfairly, discriminated against, or otherwise at a disadvantage. So yes, I am a feminist, because I advocate women's rights, and yes I'm an advocate of LGBT rights, and I also advocate black rights too!!! Is a masculinist is someone who advocates men's rights, then I guess I'm one of those as well! By very definition of the word feminist, I couldn't fit it any better. I do support everyone's rights, but unfortunately there isn't a word for that so I have to label myself with the words that do exist, even if they are for very specific groups of people, but that doesn't stop me from being that thing, if you advocate women's rights and believe in gender equality then by it's very definition you are a feminist, because nowhere in the definition does it state that you can't support anyone else's right too. I think this is what you're not understanding.

(Original post by lasertown)
I am really fighting the urge to sigh, right now.

At what point did I say that feminists were wrong? I simply criticised the feminists that disregard men's rights. That's all.

Stop putting words in my mouth, and reading hidden, non-existing meanings in what I am stating. Thank you.

I'm a feminist (because I advocate women's rights and believe in gender equality) and there's no-one in the world who's rights I disregard, so I don't understand why the majority of people don't identify as feminist too, unless they're either sexist or just don't advocate anyone's rights (even slightly) because they're simply lazy. Like literally, most people I know believe that the sexes are equal, and they'll even sometimes say something about the unfairness of something to do with females (I heard a a bunch of guys talking about how bad it is that girls have to pay so much for tampons, it was very awkward to witness tbh. Likewise they all accept that women deserved the right to vote and they couldn't believe that it was difficult for them to be given it). But if I approached them and asked if they were feminists, they'd all bloody retch and mock the world to hell. But why? They fit the definition perfectly, so why don't they identify as it? Because they don't understand what it means, they don't understand that feminism isn't this exclusive "woman supreme" bundle of beliefs that prevent people from supporting any other group of people, incapable of acknowledging mens' drawbacks. And that's my problem, all of this anti-feminism is bull**** and the girls on that front page have some really pathetic, ignorant views and I can't believe that there are open-minded, educated people shooting down something which so clearly should be the norm
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louieee
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#166
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#166
(Original post by higherminion)
and yet, even still, no one can actually tell me what they're working towards in any realistic and quantifiable way. What gender equality are you looking for?

-wage gap doesn't exist (in fact it's illegal to discriminate on sex lines for employers in the uk)
-rape epidemic doesn't exist (stats are hyped due to diluted definition used by feminists, also kashmiri muslims love it- not so much a white male problem on the whole)
-slut double standard exists for a reason due to evolutionary biology (i posted a graphic on another thread, if you want to read it let me know)
-men and women both express themselves differently. If you want men to express themselves like women then that is misandry.

What i'm getting at is, feminists understand evolutionary biology about as well as creationists do. Please, prove me wrong. tell me why you're not insane, and what are you trying to equalise between the sexes?
the fact that a male like you has the superior intelligence to disregard every statistic out there which very very clearly shows that there are inequalities in every aspect of living for both males and females




oh and that thing about a wage gap being illegal so oh it doesn't exist (again the statistics show it does but nevermind those)


"oh 999 what's your emergency...

You've just been raped?!?



But that can't happen, it's illegal!!"
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louieee
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#167
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#167
(Original post by HigherMinion)
And yet, even still, no one can actually tell me what they're working towards in any realistic and quantifiable way. What gender equality are you looking for?

This thread is full of people explaining this, backing it up with endless statistics which you just casually disregard as false. Maybe they're not talking directly to you because they can clearly see that you're just an ignorant, narrow-minded, mr "oh these facts aren't true I prefer to make up my own", eyes-closed up-your-bum bury you head in the sand ******** who wouldn't know factual evidence if it dressed provocatively yet tried to fight you off while you shove your sweaty prick hands into the bra of the gender which you so clearly don't see as ever being discriminated against because somehow you have the power to just flip off every single piece of evidence as if somehow it doesn't apply to this world now please minion of a higher being take your unworldly strength of mind and incredulous logic elsewhere because you're too powerful for a forum as simple-minded as this
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username1602603
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#168
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#168
(Original post by louieee)
Supporting equality as a whole still makes you a feminist though! I advocate the rights of everyone within significant aspects of their life when they are treated unfairly, discriminated against, or otherwise at a disadvantage. So yes, I am a feminist, because I advocate women's rights, and yes I'm an advocate of LGBT rights, and I also advocate black rights too!!! Is a masculinist is someone who advocates men's rights, then I guess I'm one of those as well! By very definition of the word feminist, I couldn't fit it any better. I do support everyone's rights, but unfortunately there isn't a word for that so I have to label myself with the words that do exist, even if they are for very specific groups of people, but that doesn't stop me from being that thing, if you advocate women's rights and believe in gender equality then by it's very definition you are a feminist, because nowhere in the definition does it state that you can't support anyone else's right too. I think this is what you're not understanding.




I'm a feminist (because I advocate women's rights and believe in gender equality) and there's no-one in the world who's rights I disregard, so I don't understand why the majority of people don't identify as feminist too, unless they're either sexist or just don't advocate anyone's rights (even slightly) because they're simply lazy. Like literally, most people I know believe that the sexes are equal, and they'll even sometimes say something about the unfairness of something to do with females (I heard a a bunch of guys talking about how bad it is that girls have to pay so much for tampons, it was very awkward to witness tbh. Likewise they all accept that women deserved the right to vote and they couldn't believe that it was difficult for them to be given it). But if I approached them and asked if they were feminists, they'd all bloody retch and mock the world to hell. But why? They fit the definition perfectly, so why don't they identify as it? Because they don't understand what it means, they don't understand that feminism isn't this exclusive "woman supreme" bundle of beliefs that prevent people from supporting any other group of people, incapable of acknowledging mens' drawbacks. And that's my problem, all of this anti-feminism is bull**** and the girls on that front page have some really pathetic, ignorant views and I can't believe that there are open-minded, educated people shooting down something which so clearly should be the norm
You can't impose on other people what they identify as. Many people justifiably don't feel feminism adequately fights for the rights of both genders or even all members of the same gender. It doesn't speak to all women and being dismissive of that and insisting 'they don't understand feminism' rather than addressing it says everything that's wrong with it.
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louieee
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#169
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#169
(Original post by Blaq_widow)
You can't impose on other people what they identify as. Many people justifiably don't feel feminism adequately fights for the rights of both genders or even all members of the same gender. It doesn't speak to all women and being dismissive of that and insisting 'they don't understand feminism' rather than addressing it says everything that's wrong with it.
Feminism doesn't fight for the rights of both genders, hence why I said people aren't restricted to being a feminist only. They can also advocate men's rights too. And I'm sorry but your last point is really rather quite unclear.
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MolluscBaby
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#170
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#170
Ugh. This thread. So much misinformation and misunderstanding. Wow.
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ineedtorevise127
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#171
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#171
Feminism is a joke. Many people who represent feminism do stupid things like running naked on the streets to show they are free. Wow how can anyone be taken seriously? Also its men do this men do that. Yeah blame many EVIL men instead of a minority. Let us not forget the double standards. Most feminist groups roar when men attack women. But what about when its the other way round. I have heard little anger when men get attacked. Also religious freedom is under threat from feminism. Look at the recent rule where women became bishops. Feminism has arguably helped this happen. The idea that women have to be bishops to be considered 'equal' is silly. Why don't they just respect that people have different views on equality? But no they are the ones forcing their views on others. Whether or not you believe in Christianity it is wrong to force Churches to become more liberal and follow the views you want. Surely that then leads to liberalism and not religion.
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lasertown
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#172
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#172
(Original post by Blaq_widow)
You can't impose on other people what they identify as. Many people justifiably don't feel feminism adequately fights for the rights of both genders or even all members of the same gender. It doesn't speak to all women and being dismissive of that and insisting 'they don't understand feminism' rather than addressing it says everything that's wrong with it.


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100% agree. Also, I don't know why the other user said the last part wasn't clear, it made pefect sense.
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TurboCretin
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#173
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#173
(Original post by tupper_ware)
You don't need feminism because you're a bloke.
By that logic, these white western women don't need feminism either, contrary to your first post.
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Legilimency
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#174
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#174
I think this campaign shows how great and deep the misconception is about what feminism is. One should differ between man hating, frustrated people being aggressive and hateful while hiding behind an honorable cause, versus the feminist ideology itself. Feminism is the idea that men and women should be equal, in every way. Misandry is not feminism, it's not a part of the ideolgy and certainly should not be or become. Misandry in those calling them selves feminists shows how they've misunderstood what feminism want to acheive; a society where both women and men could thrive, no gender being surpressed by another were no one is limited because of gender.

Look at the work of Judith Butler, look at the texts of Mary Wollenstonecraft, Stuart Mill and de beauvoir - there is no misandry in feminist ideology. Misandry is not feminism.
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AntisthenesDogger
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#175
(Original post by Legilimency)
I think this campaign shows how great and deep the misconception is about what feminism is. One should differ between man hating, frustrated people being aggressive and hateful while hiding behind an honorable cause, versus the feminist ideology itself. Feminism is the idea that men and women should be equal, in every way. Misandry is not feminism, it's not a part of the ideolgy and certainly should not be or become. Misandry in those calling them selves feminists shows how they've misunderstood what feminism want to acheive; a society where both women and men could thrive, no gender being surpressed by another were no one is limited because of gender.

Look at the work of Judith Butler, look at the texts of Mary Wollenstonecraft, Stuart Mill and de beauvoir - there is no misandry in feminist ideology. Misandry is not feminism.
Did... Did you sincerely collectivise John Stuart Mill into Feminism. Not sure if srs.

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Legilimency
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#176
(Original post by AntisthenesDogger)
Did... Did you sincerely collectivise John Stuart Mill into Feminism. Not sure if srs.

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Sure. In his book, The Subject of Women, he argues in favour of equality between the sexes.
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AntisthenesDogger
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#177
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(Original post by Legilimency)
Sure. In his book, The Subject of Women, he argues in favour of equality between the sexes.
Equality of sexes is not equivocal to feminism. Mill certainly wasn't a feminist and almost the entire corpus of his thought is opposed by what "feminism" advocates. He never would have identified as such, he didn't and it's an anachronism to claim so

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dead sheep eater
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#178
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(Original post by AntisthenesDogger)
Equality of sexes is not equivocal to feminism. Mill certainly wasn't a feminist and almost the entire corpus of his thought is opposed by what "feminism" advocates. He never would have identified as such, he didn't and it's an anachronism to claim so.

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I'm confused?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Subjection_of_Women
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Legilimency
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#179
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#179
(Original post by AntisthenesDogger)
Equality of sexes is not equivocal to feminism. Mill certainly wasn't a feminist and almost the entire corpus of his thought is opposed by what "feminism" advocates. He never would have identified as such, he didn't and it's an anachronism to claim so.

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You and I seem to have different ideas of what femnism advocates and therefore also different opinions about how well Mills' ideas and the ideas of feminism marry up.
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AntisthenesDogger
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#180
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#180
What confuses you? He was for the equality of women societally. So am I. So is OP. We're not feminists. Neither was Mill. Mill's ideals on a tonality of many other spheres is opposed to the usual idioms of feminist thought, not to mention "feminism" used in unison with Mill is by definition anachronistic. Didn't exist.

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