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    (Original post by Emmaworters)
    By teaching people not to murder they them self are murdering?

    I dont doubt for one second that he is worthless scum, but why do we actually think that by murdering someone to prove a point is correct?

    Im sorry, but the law states it is illegal to kill, so does that mean the executer (wether that is one person or ten) they are breaking the law!!!

    Put him in jail for life, enough death has occurred, it's not right to see another family suffer!! Not only has three innocent family's had to deal with bereavement but now 4

    Murder is an unlawful killing. State execution is legal and so not murder.
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    (Original post by Emmaworters)
    By teaching people not to murder they them self are murdering?

    I dont doubt for one second that he is worthless scum, but why do we actually think that by murdering someone to prove a point is correct?

    Im sorry, but the law states it is illegal to kill, so does that mean the executer (wether that is one person or ten) they are breaking the law!!!

    Put him in jail for life, enough death has occurred, it's not right to see another family suffer!! Not only has three innocent family's had to deal with bereavement but now 4
    The law states that false imprisonment is illegal, so does that mean...!!!

    Wait...
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    This is a statement from the Boston Police Commissioner William Evans, "“It is my sincere hope that today’s verdict will bring with it a significant level of comfort and solace to all hurt, harmed and impacted by the attack on our Boston Marathon back in April of 2013. While no decision will fully erase or help us completely forget the horror and pain suffered by so many on that fateful day twenty five months ago, it is our hope that each passing day will bring with it an enhanced level of comfort." Doesn't this message just say it all? It's so clear with stuff like it bringing "comfort and solace" and "enhanced level of comfort" that the punishment is far too influenced by emotion, rather than logic. It's so wrong, this is something bloody ancient Greece had already worked out. When using emotion to decide the punishment for a crime, it will never be fair or practical. This is why we're meant to have justice decided by those removed from the crime.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    Why? The whole point of having states is that their laws don't have to be (completely) consistent.
    I am not saying they have to be 100% but some closeness would I believe be better
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    (Original post by hollyobxox)
    i study Ethics and the statistic was there and also 88% of americans believe it isn't a deterrence
    Great, I studied the death penalty. Numerous papers have found it was a deterrent. Here's for some starters:

    Bailey, William and Peterson, Ruth – 1989
    Cloninger, Dale – 1992
    Cloninger, Dale and Marchesini, Roberto – 2001
    Cloninger, Dale and Marchesini, Roberto – 2006
    Dezhbakhsh, H., P. H. Rubin, and J. M. Shepherd. 2003
    Dezhbakhsh, Hashem and Shepherd, Joanna – 2006
    Ehrlich, Isaac – 1975
    Ehrlich, Isaac – 1977
    Kenneth Land, Raymond Teske Jr. and Hui Zheng – 2009
    Zhiqiang Liu – 2004
    Naci Mocan and Kaj Gittings – 2003
    Joanna Shepherd – 2004
    Joanna M. Shepherd – 2005
    Cass R. Sunstein and Adrian Vermeule – 2005a

    Not all papers found it was a deterrence but a good number have so simply saying "it is not a deterrent" as if that fact was not up for debate is simply wrong.
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    Government: "Let's show that killing is wrong by killing!"

    Anyone know when do we start raping rapists?
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    (Original post by Truths)
    Government: "Let's show that killing is wrong by killing!"

    Anyone know when do we start raping rapists?
    When they drop the soap.
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    (Original post by hollyobxox)
    I am not saying they have to be 100% but some closeness would I believe be better
    Okay, but you still haven't answered my question: why? What is the virtue in what you are suggesting? Why would you be happier with all states using the death penalty, rather than just some of them?
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    (Original post by Penguinfarts)
    Too light, He should be kept in solitary confinement for the rest of his life, that is much worse.
    Personally I'd prefer him to be kept with the prison Neo Nazi gang instead.

    Spending the rest of his life getting gang raped is pretty much what he deserves IMO..
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Personally I'd prefer him to be kept with the prison Neo Nazi gang instead.

    Spending the rest of his life getting gang raped is pretty much what he deserves IMO..
    Physical pain only really affects people for so long and he would likely to be quickly murdered, whereas mental pain is the worst.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    Great, I studied the death penalty. Numerous papers have found it was a deterrent. Here's for some starters:

    Bailey, William and Peterson, Ruth – 1989
    Cloninger, Dale – 1992
    Cloninger, Dale and Marchesini, Roberto – 2001
    Cloninger, Dale and Marchesini, Roberto – 2006
    Dezhbakhsh, H., P. H. Rubin, and J. M. Shepherd. 2003
    Dezhbakhsh, Hashem and Shepherd, Joanna – 2006
    Ehrlich, Isaac – 1975
    Ehrlich, Isaac – 1977
    Kenneth Land, Raymond Teske Jr. and Hui Zheng – 2009
    Zhiqiang Liu – 2004
    Naci Mocan and Kaj Gittings – 2003
    Joanna Shepherd – 2004
    Joanna M. Shepherd – 2005
    Cass R. Sunstein and Adrian Vermeule – 2005a

    Not all papers found it was a deterrence but a good number have so simply saying "it is not a deterrent" as if that fact was not up for debate is simply wrong.

    Excellent list of studies there.

    Also, on a common sense level it would seem as if capital punishment would be deterrent. If a country lessens the consequences of crime, then crime will increase. By getting rid of capital punishment, a country effectively cheapens human life and lessens the consequences for taking an innocent life. And, of course, if consequences for murder are reduced, then by default they are reduced for all other crimes.

    I think UK proves beyond doubt that abolition of capital punishment massively increases crime rates across the board.
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    (Original post by capitalismstinks)
    Excellent list of studies there.

    Also, on a common sense level it would seem as if capital punishment would be deterrent. If a country lessens the consequences of crime, then crime will increase. By getting rid of capital punishment, a country effectively cheapens human life and lessens the consequences for taking an innocent life. And, of course, if consequences for murder are reduced, then by default they are reduced for all other crimes.

    I think UK proves beyond doubt that abolition of capital punishment massively increases crime rates across the board.
    What seems to come from the studies is that not only does a state/country need the death penalty as a possible punishment, but that it actually needs to implement it. I mean what kind of deterrent is it if people are never executed? One of the Shepherd studies gives (from memory) the figure of executing at least 7 prisoners per year in order to deter murder most effectively. I think this is where a lot of the "anti-deterrent" studies go wrong; they fail to take frequency into account.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    What seems to come from the studies is that not only does a state/country need the death penalty as a possible punishment, but that it actually needs to implement it. I mean what kind of deterrent is it if people are never executed? One of the Shepherd studies gives (from memory) the figure of executing at least 7 prisoners per year in order to deter murder most effectively. I think this is where a lot of the "anti-deterrent" studies go wrong; they fail to take frequency into account.


    Yes, completely agree. Mandatory capital punishment would be essential for it to have a proper deterrent effect -- Singapore for example has mandatory death sentence, and it has some of the lowest crime rates in world.

    Also, agree completely that those arguing its not a deterrent never take into account frequency. I think they do this deliberately because they are ideologically against it.
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    (Original post by capitalismstinks)
    Singapore for example has mandatory death sentence, and it has some of the lowest crime rates in world.
    And at what expense? Do you want our society to look like Singapore's? :lol:
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    (Original post by Truths)
    And at what expense? Do you want our society to look like Singapore's? :lol:


    Well, Singapore has some of the lowest crime rates in the world. One of the best education systems in the world. Is one of the richest countries in the world per capita.

    I assume you are thinking of different Country when you make such a comment.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    Okay, but you still haven't answered my question: why? What is the virtue in what you are suggesting? Why would you be happier with all states using the death penalty, rather than just some of them?
    No ideally I would want all states not to use the death penalty
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    (Original post by hollyobxox)
    No ideally I would want all states not to use the death penalty
    So really, you don't care about consistency, you just don't like the death penalty. Fine.
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    (Original post by StrangeBanana)
    So really, you don't care about consistency, you just don't like the death penalty. Fine.
    no I care about both, I think there should be consistency and also believe that the death penalty should be abolished
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    (Original post by hollyobxox)
    no I care about both, I think there should be consistency and also believe that the death penalty should be abolished
    :hello:

    Don't forget to get back to me once you've looked at those studies.
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    (Original post by hollyobxox)
    no I care about both, I think there should be consistency and also believe that the death penalty should be abolished
    Ok, so you don't support capital punishment, so how long do you think murderers should serve in jail?
 
 
 

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