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    (Original post by EdmundWoodstock)
    Are you trying to be deliberately dense or are you just avoiding the point? I repeat, since when does physics say that a hydrogen atom caused creation. Please answer the question this time
    Hahahah, I dont know whether you're joking or not.

    I'll clarify just in case- If it helps, it wasn't I who made the comment about hydrogen atoms creating the universe in the first place:- Go back a page. - I can't remember the username, I'll edit it onto here rn though haha.

    I just intervened in your conversation.

    But if you are still joking and are perfectly aware of the above then... No, I'm not dense- I would never take the role of a Hydrogen atom which has been solidified after reacting with oxygen.

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    (Original post by Anon_98)
    Hahahah, I dont know whether you're joking or not.

    I'll clarify just in case- If it helps, it wasn't I who made the comment about hydrogen atoms creating the universe in the first place:- Go back a page. - I can't remember the username, I'll edit it onto here rn though haha.

    I just intervened in your conversation.

    But if you are still joking and are perfectly aware of the above then... No, I'm not dense- I would never take the role of a Hydrogen atom which has been solidified after reacting with oxygen.

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    What? When did I say it was you who made the comment? I was addressing your pedantic and childish comment concerning "physics says".

    Hydrogen atoms which have been solidified after reacting with oxygen? What does that even mean? I'm doing a chemistry degree and this has me confused...
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    I'll play u 1v1 rust quick scopin 3rd person throwin nifes aloud.
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    (Original post by EdmundWoodstock)
    What? When did I say it was you who made the comment? I was addressing your pedantic and childish comment concerning "physics says".

    Hydrogen atoms which has been solidified after reacting with oxygen? What does that even mean? I'm doing a chemistry degree and this has me confused...
    So this is how its gonna be from now on, is it?

    Youre just gonna blank me like that?

    After all we went through

    I might as well quit tsr then. Jameel's gone and youre effectively gone too if you just blank me


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    (Original post by Idris11)
    they where not lucky[ the kaafir] to be born into a muslim family, u where lucky and blessed with and now you are wasting it.
    How unlucky you are to believe in nonsensical stories which involve the moon being split into half or having the Devil urinate in your ear. So unlucky.
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    (Original post by husband material)
    If atoms werent formed then what was the singularity made out of :hmmm:

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    I'm not an expert, but I assume it's some form of inconceivably compressed matter, too compressed for matter to exist as we know it, probably some sort of strange plasma.

    Well if you don't want me to blank you the least you could do is not make threads trying to "expose me"...
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    (Original post by h3isenberg)
    Incorrect on the basis that God knows...everything? You essentially agree with me then lol.
    Hahah, no- Incorrect on the basis that on the previous post my final question was "Who knows?" You replied with that paragraph rather than God.

    Do not try and remove your -100 points from the board, it is engraved just like the future you speak of!



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    [QUOTE=Dima-Blackburn;55870939]
    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)

    "Harsh" is an understatement. Amputations are permanent, irreversible punishments. They are excessively cruel, and have been banned for very good reasons regardless of their possible deterrence effects. Even the deterrence effect is not particularly high, and many studies show that it's not the severity, but the likelihood of getting caught that plays a greater role in deterrence. An appeal solely to consequences with regard to a given punishment by claiming that it is a deterrent to a behaviour which it is desirable to discourage overlooks the fact that, in a civil society, the punishment ought to be proportional to the infraction. Amputation (irreversible) is not at all comparable to petty theft (reversible), as such it's immoral to amputate thieves.
    To be honest I must agree with some of the things you state. It would be preferred to have more proportional punishments to crimes such as stealing etc.

    However, It does still remain an effective deterrent. Now whether you subjectively see this as immoral or not, this is a story for another day. Yes amputations are harsh, but Islam tries its best to keep a stable society. Which is why I referred to stable Muslim societies have a generally, much lower crime rate than Western countries.

    I'll be honest, using such punishments as a deterrent has great benefits to the safety of a society, however it does indeed have drawbacks such as the ones you have mentioned.

    But as the thought does indeed remain that Islam doesn't look for people to punish. It tries to prevent, rather than cure. Which can save up a lot of loss-time.
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    (Original post by EdmundWoodstock)
    What? When did I say it was you who made the comment? I was addressing your pedantic and childish comment concerning "physics says".

    Hydrogen atoms which have been solidified after reacting with oxygen? What does that even mean? I'm doing a chemistry degree and this has me confused...
    Haha, you didn't. It was when you repeated the question and asked for me to answer it, I was worried you had mistaken me for "Fa- the name is too-long-and-I-dont-remember"

    Aw "Childish".. *sobs* I apologise lol, I was only joking.

    Oh, I basically meant:

    H2 + 1/202 -----------> H20
    H20 is water, solidified water is Ice. Ice is dense.


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    (Original post by Anon_98)
    Haha, you didn't. It was when you repeated the question and asked for me to answer it, I was worried you had mistaken me for "Fa- the name is too-long-and-I-dont-remember"

    Aw "Childish".. *sobs* I apologise lol, I was only joking.

    Oh, I basically meant:

    H2 + 1/202 -----------> H20
    H20 is water, solidified water is Ice. Ice is dense.


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    The substance is solid, but the atom itself is not, an atom is neither a solid, liquid or gas, it's a wavefunction
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    (Original post by EdmundWoodstock)
    The substance is solid, but the atom itself is not, an atom is neither a solid, liquid or gas, it's a wavefunction
    Thats hilarious- Ahhh...I tried.


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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    Sorry, I'm not brilliant with my Physics. Although I am pretty certain that the majority of atoms produced by the Big Bang were indeed Hydrogen, Helium & Lithium.

    But again I might be wrong. However I'm not here to argue the actual theory of the Big Bang. I just want to point out to the post before me that the Big Bang Theory, or any other theory related to the beginning of the Universe is far more flawed than theistic views.
    I disagree the Big Bang theory has real life proof for example red shift showing that the universe is expanding from one particular place. That means that not only is the universe constantly expanding but there's one origin point which is proof of the Big Bang theory with the universe being made by a single explosion.
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    (Original post by MrKmas508)
    I disagree the Big Bang theory has real life proof for example red shift showing that the universe is expanding from one particular place. That means that not only is the universe constantly expanding but there's one origin point which is proof of the Big Bang theory with the universe being made by a single explosion.
    If the singularity contained all of space and time, then the big bang happened everywhere

    Space isnt expanding from a "point"

    That point in spacetime wouldnt even exist before the big bang
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    So basically everything has blown out of proportion and has turned into one of those debates. Do carry on insulting and interrogating each other.
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    (Original post by MrKmas508)
    I disagree the Big Bang theory has real life proof for example red shift showing that the universe is expanding from one particular place. That means that not only is the universe constantly expanding but there's one origin point which is proof of the Big Bang theory with the universe being made by a single explosion.
    Cosmic background radiation too. Another obvious piece of evidence is that the night sky is black. If the universe were steady and static the night sky would be infinitely bright.
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    [QUOTE=Faisalshamallakh;55871437]
    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)

    To be honest I must agree with some of the things you state. It would be preferred to have more proportional punishments to crimes such as stealing etc.

    However, It does still remain an effective deterrent. Now whether you subjectively see this as immoral or not, this is a story for another day. Yes amputations are harsh, but Islam tries its best to keep a stable society. Which is why I referred to stable Muslim societies have a generally, much lower crime rate than Western countries.
    Again, whether or not it's a deterrent is irrelevant (although I would dispute just how much of a deterrent it actually is - if you could provide reliable stats, I'd be happy to look at them). From a moral perspective, the punishment must be proportionate to the infraction under a retributive model (Islamic law endorses this model, with deterrence considered more of a side-effect). If we took out proportionality from the equation, we would have to inflict excessively cruel punishments regardless of the severity of the infractions. For example, under your model one could argue for the amputation of those who drive over the speed limit to get everyone to drive under the speed limit and prevent accidents on the road, but this punishment would not be proportionate to the speeding offense itself. This is basic legal theory, and the element of proportionate retribution is explicitly endorsed in Islamic texts (eye for an eye, nose for nose).

    I'll be honest, using such punishments as a deterrent has great benefits to the safety of a society, however it does indeed have drawbacks such as the ones you have mentioned.
    Tbh, I don't see how draconian punishments benefit society in the long run. On the contrary, it makes people a lot more willing to engage in aggressive, violent behaviour if the State itself behaves in such a manner. A civilised society ought to move away from harsh, retributive models and move towards restorative justice as well as addressing the issues that give rise to crime. There's a strong correlation between the environment you're brought up in, and the likelihood of you committing crime (or being a victim of crime). Society should move towards addressing these issues.

    But as the thought does indeed remain that Islam doesn't look for people to punish. It tries to prevent, rather than cure. Which can save up a lot of loss-time.
    Yes, it does. There are reasons why different punishments are given for different crimes, even in Islam. If we wanted to save up time, we wouldn't have criminal law. We'd just torture all the criminals to death and be done with it, hoping that it would deter people from committing any crime.
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    (Original post by EdmundWoodstock)
    Cosmic background radiation too. Another obvious piece of evidence is that the night sky is black. If the universe were steady and static the night sky would be infinitely bright.
    If atoms are mostly empty space, what makes some things so heavy

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    This thread has made an interesting read, aswell as you listing you choices etc. I have a lot of respect for you to do this and answer peoples questions so kindly, I hope you find happiness in leaving Islam and that your familly and friends all respect your choice and maintain some sort of relationship when you do tell them. It takes alot of courage to do.
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    [QUOTE=Faisalshamallakh;55871437]
    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)

    To be honest I must agree with some of the things you state. It would be preferred to have more proportional punishments to crimes such as stealing etc.

    However, It does still remain an effective deterrent. Now whether you subjectively see this as immoral or not, this is a story for another day. Yes amputations are harsh, but Islam tries its best to keep a stable society. Which is why I referred to stable Muslim societies have a generally, much lower crime rate than Western countries.

    I'll be honest, using such punishments as a deterrent has great benefits to the safety of a society, however it does indeed have drawbacks such as the ones you have mentioned.

    But as the thought does indeed remain that Islam doesn't look for people to punish. It tries to prevent, rather than cure. Which can save up a lot of loss-time.
    . Well if it's so good why don't you go live there. The reason why your family moved to a western country was because Sharia law countries were horrendous. Starving children who needed food to eat were brutally punished for trying to get food. There are hardly any stable Muslim societies left except maybe Turkey but they're secular.
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    (Original post by husband material)
    So this is how its gonna be from now on, is it?

    Youre just gonna blank me like that?

    After all we went through

    I might as well quit tsr then. Jameel's gone and youre effectively gone too if you just blank me


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    Nah Quantum this is Jameel, I am still here:smug:, don't watch nothing if you leave the religion section it will become mundane, you're like Krusty the Klown of TSR's religion section.:hugs:

    I just had to take a break for my studies.
 
 
 
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