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    (Original post by Dose of fury)
    My initial comment has only strengthened in validity by your ignorant comment(s).
    In your head maybe. In reality you are making yourself appear to be intolerant and actually a bit childish.

    Your forum name supports the fact that you are an intolerant individual, iMO
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    I understand that Islam has a concept of 'Satan' because the Quran states it an in honesty im convinced they exist but of course i cant prove it and thats what every muslim should just say, its in the unseen and we believe it to be true.

    Personally, im not taking any decisions ill spend my life educating myself and looking into the matter and such, as for accepting islam, praying 5 times a day and nothing else then no way iv'e taken the decision to study the Quran word for word, as for now i dont know its all too confusing for me :P Islam has a convincing side yet its not 100% enough to create a firm unshakable belief.

    The worst thing i hear tho is when they say, go pray because satans in your head, no hes not my mind isnt getting it not satan.
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    I understand that Islam has a concept of 'Satan' because the Quran states it an in honesty im convinced they exist but of course i cant prove it and thats what every muslim should just say, its in the unseen and we believe it to be true.

    Personally, im not taking any decisions ill spend my life educating myself and looking into the matter and such, as for accepting islam, praying 5 times a day and nothing else then no way iv'e taken the decision to study the Quran word for word, as for now i dont know its all too confusing for me :P Islam has a convincing side yet its not 100% enough to create a firm unshakable belief.

    The worst thing i hear tho is when they say, go pray because satans in your head, no hes not my mind isnt getting it not satan.
    I hope you find the answers to whatever you are looking for.
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    (Original post by TeachChemistry)
    I hope you find the answers to whatever you are looking for.
    Each person will lead their path, hopefully we all find our place.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Indeed, still don't see it. Besides, could you answer the question I asked you. Even if there were, how would it make it miraculous? Anyone can look at the natural world, see something obvious and write it down. It would only be divine inspiration if some advanced, precise and unambiguous science was found that could not possibly have been known at the time.

    Muslims are yet to provide a Quranic example of this.
    If you don't see it, you did not try. Do you expect me to link you everything?

    Does it matter if I provide an example? You would just say its a coincidence. Try to be open minded then ask me the question.
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    (Original post by Religion)
    If you don't see it, you did not try. Do you expect me to link you everything?

    Does it matter if I provide an example? You would just say its a coincidence. Try to be open minded then ask me the question.
    Because it is a fact that there's no magical barrier between the seas. Yes, there are differences between the oceans obviously, that's why we humans gave them different names.

    This isn't even a case of it being a coincidence, this isn't at all something miraculous. Like embryology, it is an erroneous claim about something that can be studied and observed in nature.

    Why don't you give an example of science that was not known anywhere in the entire world at the time except for in the Quran?
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    (Original post by TeachChemistry)
    No idea. Could be anybody.




    Yes I do believe that. Why would this information have to be 'hidden'. If the writer really knew what they were talking about why would they not just write those percentages straight down. I've searched a bit about the numbers you have given and there seems to be some ambiguity. For example, land-animal is mentioned rather than just land. All much too far fetched I'm afraid.
    Again if it wasn't 'hidden' why would there be a religion? Also the Quran would lose its literature qualities making it similar to an encyclopaedia.

    Do you believe in a religion?
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    I was a Muslim, and recently turned agnostic. I personally found the same things as you did absolutely inexcusable. For one, I think the idea of one human being owning another is disgusting, and moreover, I'm not sure how a monotheistic God who views his creation as slaves would allow one of his slaves to make another one his/her property. It absolutely does not matter whether or not they're treated well or not, the sanctity of human life does/should not have a price.

    I could also not excuse how a man can be allowed to discipline his wife as if she is less than him rather than an equal. Again, a woman is not sub-human or less than a man just because she has different genitals, nor do I agree with the set gender roles of men and women in Islamic tradition.

    The foremost reason why I left is because there is absolutely NO evidence, at all, to suggest a monotheistic God exists. I'm not disputing that one may exist, but to punish people for saying they don't know about something where there is no evidence for it is just plain wrong. It's akin to a teacher (since Muslims like to use the teacher analogy), giving his students a test he expects them to pass without giving them the material they need to pass it. If a God does exist, I hope they judge people based on their character rather than what religion they chose to ascribe too during their life.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    If your Koran-derived estimate of the proportion of land to water on Earth is 13:32 then your hypothesis is doomed and the Koran's possibility of being prophetic is exploded. The proportion of the Earth's mass that is water is a tiny fraction of the whole, maybe 1%.

    There is no sense in comparing areas as the land goes down far, far deeper. But then a superstitious mediaeval warlord couldn't have known or predicted that, could he? And it is only gullible modern people who will try and claim scientific accuracy in what the Koran says on the matter.
    When did anyone mention mass? 'Earths mass that is water is maybe 1%'? Clearly you do not study physics.

    The land-water surface area proportion is exactly 13:32 and the Quran does say that.

    'There is no sense in comparing areas as the land goes down far, far deeper.' What are you talking about?
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    (Original post by Religion)

    Do you believe in a religion?

    No. And if others want to it's up to them and they should be able to believe whatever they want.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Because it is a fact that there's no magical barrier between the seas. Yes, there are differences between the oceans obviously, that's why we humans gave them different names.

    This isn't even a case of it being a coincidence, this isn't at all something miraculous. Like embryology, it is an erroneous claim about something that can be studied and observed in nature.

    Why don't you give an example of science that was not known anywhere in the entire world at the time except for in the Quran?
    Magical barrier? We gave them names after the Quran.

    I gave you the 23 man/woman example and you said coincidence. I gave you the 13:32 ratio example and you ignored it.
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    (Original post by Religion)
    I understand why he posted it, but again they are not the same.

    The ratio is 13 land : 32 water. In the Quran 'land' is mentioned 13 times and 'water' is mentioned 32 times. I did not have to add, subtract, multiply, divide or do any of the other KFC nonsense. How are they similar?
    Stop with these number nonsense miracles. Any book can be examined to find these "miracles" and try to match it to random things in nature, it doesn't prove anything. Unless it specifically says the ration between them is that then it is fallacious.

    Let's take a look at the book Moby **** shall we, because 2 can play at that game:

    Scientific miracles mentioned in Moby **** that cannot be told by a human decades ago.Those scientific miracles are being confirmed today by the scientists.
    Osteoporosis: "It was in Queen Anne's time that the bone was in its glory" [..] (Chapter lxxv - THE RIGHT WHALE'S HEAD - CONTRASTED VIEW)

    Evolution: "That all creatures of the land are of their kind in the sea"[...] (Chapter lviii - BRIT)

    Red Nebula: "Stubb longed for vermillion star" [...]

    Big Bang: "and the ball, and the explosion; so the graceful repose of the line" [..] (Chapter lx - THE LINE)

    MATHEMATICAL MIRACLES IN MOBY ****:The word IRON appears 85 times. The word METAL appears 10 times. 85+10=95.
    Atomic Number of Iron = 26, Atomic Weight = 55, Total Isotopes = 14, therefore 55+26+14=95

    Word construct appears 1 time,Word Create appears 1 time,Word Water appears 5 times,Word Air Appears 2 times 1+1+5+2=9
    Hydrogen Atomic Nubmer = 1, Oxygen Atomic Nubmer = 8 8+1=9.Today, scientists tell us, both hydrogen and oxygen combines to gives us water. MIRACLE!
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    (Original post by TeachChemistry)
    No. And if others want to it's up to them and they should be able to believe whatever they want.
    I agree.
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    (Original post by Religion)
    Magical barrier? We gave them names after the Quran.

    I gave you the 23 man/woman example and you said coincidence. I gave you the 13:32 ratio example and you ignored it.
    Because they are nonsense. If it doesn't mention chromosomes or water-land ratio then it isn't about those things. You're just trying to match it to things that are now known and shows how pathetic this "scientific miracle" argument is.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Stop with these number nonsense miracles. Any book can be examined to find these "miracles" and try to match it to random things in nature, it doesn't prove anything. Unless it specifically says the ration between them is that then it is fallacious.

    Let's take a look at the book Moby **** shall we, because 2 can play at that game:

    Scientific miracles mentioned in Moby **** that cannot be told by a human decades ago.Those scientific miracles are being confirmed today by the scientists.
    Osteoporosis: "It was in Queen Anne's time that the bone was in its glory" [..] (Chapter lxxv - THE RIGHT WHALE'S HEAD - CONTRASTED VIEW)

    Evolution: "That all creatures of the land are of their kind in the sea"[...] (Chapter lviii - BRIT)

    Red Nebula: "Stubb longed for vermillion star" [...]

    Big Bang: "and the ball, and the explosion; so the graceful repose of the line" [..] (Chapter lx - THE LINE)

    MATHEMATICAL MIRACLES IN MOBY ****:The word IRON appears 85 times. The word METAL appears 10 times.85+10=95Atomic Number of Iron = 26, Atomic Weight = 55, Total Isotopes = 14,55+26+14=95 Word construct appears 1 time,Word Create appears 1 time,Word Water appears 5 times,Word Air Appears 2 times1+1+5+2=9Hydrogen Atomic Nubmer = 1, Oxygen Atomic Nubmer = 8 8+1=9.Today, scientists tell us, both hydrogen and oxygen combines to gives us water. MIRACLE!
    Watch the KFC video and try to find a difference.
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    (Original post by Religion)
    Watch the KFC video and try to find a difference.
    There is no difference. That Moby **** example has proved, quite simply, that you can take and make up all kinds of numbers from texts, that are completely random, and construe them to mean prophetic or miraculous things.

    Unless the Qur'an clearly states how the number of times something is said relates to its significance then it is meaningless, simple as that.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Because they are nonsense. If it doesn't mention chromosomes or water-land ratio then it isn't about those things. You're just trying to match it to things that are now known and shows how pathetic this "scientific miracle" argument is.
    If you look back I did not call anything a 'scientific miracle'. And again if it did mention a scientific miracle would there be a point of being tested on earth?
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    (Original post by SuperHuman98)
    Salam, brother you can pm me about this since I dont like debating on TSR, also you can post this on the ISOC and you will get very good advice.

    Sex Slaves are forbidden in Islam btw
    Why don't you post your brainwashing attempts right here so we can all see them?
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    (Original post by Religion)
    If you look back I did not call anything a 'scientific miracle'. And again if it did mention a scientific miracle would there be a point of being tested on earth?
    If you're not claiming it's a scientific miracle then what are you saying? This whole thing started because you claimed the Qur'an contained things about science that weren't known before, like the barrier thing.

    Yes, there would. If the Quran contained accurate science that was previously unknown, it could have been tested by early scientists and determined to be true, thus giving weight to the claim that the Quran is divinely inspired.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    There is no difference. That Moby **** example has proved, quite simply, that you can take and make up all kinds of numbers from texts, that are completely random, and construe them to mean prophetic or miraculous things.

    Unless the Qur'an clearly states how the number of times something is said relates to its significance then it is meaningless, simple as that.
    Again I did not have to add, subtract, multiply, divide or do any of the things you done. My example was very clear.
 
 
 
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