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    (Original post by evantej)
    Given your level of experience a trial is redundant. They are just trying to get free labour. Seeing as you have other interviews coming up, I would just be very open with them and say if they want to offer you the job they can but you are not doing an unpaid trial.
    I agree
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    (Original post by voiceofreason234)
    Here's some 'real world' for you.

    I have a job. I've never done a days unpaid work in my life, aside from in Year 10 when we were forced to do so by our school.

    My mum has a job. She's never had to work for free.

    My dad is retired now, but he's never worked for free either.

    No one I know has ever had an 'unpaid trial' for anything.

    Law firms and accountancy firms pay their interns.

    Any other reputable company also pays their interns.

    This 'unpaid trial' is illegal. Your ramblings about the Tories are wide of the mark here, since despite being in power for 4 years, unpaid trials of this nature are still illegal. If 'they' wanted them to be legal, they're had ample time to make it so.
    Yet another nice story, great touch making it a family history to. But again, I am taking the advice of an accountant and a lawyer about how to suceed in the "real world". When people who have done well say something is perfectly fine, and they have indeed done very well by doing so, I am proably going to take their advice. There is some real world for you.
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    read first 3 pages. laughing at you people. if you need a job and you turn an opportunity down because you don't want to do a 3 day trial (really not a long time), you are the only one who is losing out. you aren't making a stand in any way and the company will fill that position with someone less up their own arse.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Yet another nice story, great touch making it a family history to. But again, I am taking the advice of an accountant and a lawyer about how to suceed in the "real world". When people who have done well say something is perfectly fine, and they have indeed done very well by doing so, I am proably going to take their advice. There is some real world for you.
    Law and accounting firms all pay their interns. Where are you getting this nonsense from?

    Also, dat sample size. 2 people.

    This 'unpaid trial' is illegal.
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    (Original post by voiceofreason234)
    Law and accounting firms all pay their interns. Where are you getting this nonsense from?

    Also, dat sample size. 2 people.

    This 'unpaid trial' is illegal.
    A trial; seeing if someone is good enough. Lasts a few days.

    An internship; training over a longer period of time. For this reason (the time duration and more work being completed because of it) you are paid.

    Where are you getting your nonsense from? Only a complete idiot would argue that these firms don't do trials.
    Then again, only a complete tool doesn't know the difference between work experience, trials and internships.
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    (Original post by og.east)
    read first 3 pages. laughing at you people. if you need a job and you turn an opportunity down because you don't want to do a 3 day trial (really not a long time), you are the only one who is losing out. you aren't making a stand in any way and the company will fill that position with someone less up their own arse.
    Precisely. The nutters on here have been trying to come up with the most ridiculous excuses that make no sense whatsoever. Reality is like you called it-they are just up their own arse, lazy, happy to live of mummy/daddy/the state and justify it with a sense of entitlement that only royalty can justify.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    A trial; seeing if someone is good enough. Lasts a few days.

    An internship; training over a longer period of time. For this reason (the time duration and more work being completed because of it) you are paid.

    Where are you getting your nonsense from? Only a complete idiot would argue that these firms don't do trials.
    Then again, only a complete tool doesn't know the difference between work experience, trials and internships.
    No reputable company in law or accounting does 'trials' of this nature. They hire based on graduate scheme applicatons (no unpaid trial, not even for a few hours) or internships (which are paid).

    Sorry, but it's you who is the complete idiot. Carry on working for free though, I'll keep demanding payment as my time has value.
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    (Original post by voiceofreason234)
    No reputable company in law or accounting does 'trials' of this nature. They hire based on graduate scheme applicatons (no unpaid trial, not even for a few hours) or internships (which are paid).

    Sorry, but it's you who is the complete idiot. Carry on working for free though, I'll keep demanding payment as my time has value.
    Sorry, but a laywer and an accountant on here has told you otherwise.

    Sorry, but you are a bit of an idiot. Here is what I read earlier that you posted;


    Thread; How hard is the ACA content?

    (Original post by voiceofreason234)

    The ACA exams...
    I only ended up doing 2 of these 6 exams because I was fired from the company before i could take the next set of exams (nothing to do with exam failure, something completely unrelated).

    No idea about the final three but considering the other exams I doubt they were that hard. Personally I found university finals exams to be much more challenging and requiring more work.
    You got fired from your job. FIRED. What a tool. I mean I am saying that some people on here don't have the right work ethic. Then you disagree with me and what do you know, you are the type who gets fired.

    May I suggest you improve your attitude towards work? Perhaps then you wouldn't get fired, you wouldn't have a big problem on your CV (you were at this place but only completed these exams? Why? is what everyone will ask), and you wouldn't question people who actually go to work and get paid as opposed to getting fired for having a crap attitude.

    My situation, as a result of my attitude, is much better than yours at present. So call me an idiot all you like, I get the last laugh. I am going to work tommorow. So epic fail. You said "
    Carry on working for free though, I'll keep demanding payment as my time has value."
    Well, FYI, me time is valued far more than yours. I have never been sacked. Your poor attitude on here sadly shows in real life. You were probably rude, arrogant and lazy at work like on here I bet.
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    I might ask admins to close this thread, now it's getting too personal and nasty.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    You got fired from your job. FIRED. What a tool. I mean I am saying that some people on here don't have the right work ethic. Then you disagree with me and what do you know, you are the type who gets fired.
    I consider it a badge of honour to get fired from places like that. They wanted me to resign, but I stubbornly clung on throughout the 'performance improvement' process for the extra 1 month pay in lieu of notice.

    However this really has nothing to do with an unpaid trial. I got the above job without doing any unpaid trial. I have my current job without doing an unpaid trial etc. So you don't need to do unpaid trials to get work, end of story.
    May I suggest you improve your attitude towards work? Perhaps then you wouldn't get fired, you wouldn't have a big problem on your CV (you were at this place but only completed these exams? Why? is what everyone will ask), and you wouldn't question people who actually go to work and get paid as opposed to getting fired for having a crap attitude.
    Well, I don't have any 'problem', since I'd walk over broken glass before working in accountancy again. Also, don't put it down on your CV ldo.
    My situation, as a result of my attitude, is much better than yours at present. So call me an idiot all you like, I get the last laugh. I am going to work tommorow. So epic fail.
    You've really no idea what my 'situation' is like - you might well be surprised. But there's no point getting into a salary **** waving contest here since either one of us could just lie about it.

    I also have to go to work, not that it's anything to be proud of (if I had the option, I'd much rather sit on a beach, cocktail in hand). I don't subscribe to an 'arbeit macht frei' policy.
    You said "
    Carry on working for free though, I'll keep demanding payment as my time has value."
    Well, FYI, me time is valued far more than yours. I have never been sacked. Your poor attitude on here sadly shows in real life. You were probably rude, arrogant and lazy at work like on here I bet.
    I earn enough to live in a nice place, eat decent food, go for hookers and blow in Thailand during vacation times, afford the latest phone etc. I don't earn enough to sail round the world in a private yacht or have a ferrari on the drive, though neither do you, and I've never been inclined to put in the level of work that would make the above two things possible - I value free time and an easy life more.

    Contrary to what you believe, we work to live - not live to work.
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    (Original post by voiceofreason234)
    I consider it a badge of honour to get fired from places like that. They wanted me to resign, but I stubbornly clung on throughout the 'performance improvement' process for the extra 1 month pay in lieu of notice.

    However this really has nothing to do with an unpaid trial. I got the above job without doing any unpaid trial. I have my current job without doing an unpaid trial etc. So you don't need to do unpaid trials to get work, end of story.


    Well, I don't have any 'problem', since I'd walk over broken glass before working in accountancy again. Also, don't put it down on your CV ldo.


    You've really no idea what my 'situation' is like - you might well be surprised. But there's no point getting into a salary **** waving contest here since either one of us could just lie about it.

    I also have to go to work, not that it's anything to be proud of (if I had the option, I'd much rather sit on a beach, cocktail in hand). I don't subscribe to an 'arbeit macht frei' policy.


    I earn enough to live in a nice place, eat decent food, go for hookers and blow in Thailand during vacation times, afford the latest phone etc. I don't earn enough to sail round the world in a private yacht or have a ferrari on the drive, though neither do you, and I've never been inclined to put in the level of work that would make the above two things possible - I value free time and an easy life more.

    Contrary to what you believe, we work to live - not live to work.
    1) Only a moron consider it a badge of honour to get fired.
    2) You spend your money (which since you are fired comes from no idea, not that I care) on hookers. Cool guy.

    Hookers and getting fired. Sounds like a real bad day for me. Your attitude, thinking it is a bade of honour to getting fired, says all I have to. You said it better than I could to be honest.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    1) Only a moron consider it a badge of honour to get fired.
    Depends on the place. I interpreted it as that I wasn't a boring kiss-ass who would sit in the office until 7pm like everyone else - which is something to be proud of.

    2) You spend your money (which since you are fired comes from no idea, not that I care) on hookers. Cool guy.
    Don't knock it until you've tried it!

    I was fire way back in 2013. Have another job now.
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    No way, unless of course I was really desperate, which is rather part of the problem. Stronger trade unions or employment law could stop these kinds of practices. Since the government keeps "liberalising" employment law we are going to have to do the whole bloody trade union thing all over again over coming decades it looks like.

    If a business can't get by without using slave labour it shouldn't be in business. Systematic use of slave labour means the business, sprawling, wasteful, incompetent, occupies space in the market which could be filled by a more efficient, competent business owner. Indeed, one day, you could be the innovative business owner locked out of the market by this and other similar practices.

    I am more sympathetic where it is a small local business rather than a large corporation (or a franchisee of one: if the franchisee or whatever franchisee's association exists is too lazy to demand terms that are decent for both him and his workers he should butt out). The reason I am sympathetic is that the abuse of slave labour is not systematic across many branches, there is genuine competition on this issue in the labour market by dint of applying to a competitor, and a small local business can be more robustly taxed and/or is more likely to contribute to the British rather than offshore economy.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    A trial; seeing if someone is good enough. Lasts a few days.

    An internship; training over a longer period of time. For this reason (the time duration and more work being completed because of it) you are paid.

    Where are you getting your nonsense from? Only a complete idiot would argue that these firms don't do trials.
    Then again, only a complete tool doesn't know the difference between work experience, trials and internships.
    You're a cuck and so are the people who advised you to take a trial. What little they gain for themselves everyone else in the market loses out on many times over. Solidarity over such issues would improve utility across the entire workforce. It may surprise you to learn the rest of the workforce as a whole isn't worried about you getting ahead. People have been encouraged to be selfish for some decades, but if they look past the end of their nose and come to understand the game theory of their position, they will unionise over such issues and demonise scabs.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    You're a cuck and so are the people who advised you to take a trial. What little they gain for themselves everyone else in the market loses out on many times over. Solidarity over such issues would improve utility across the entire workforce. It may surprise you to learn the rest of the workforce as a whole isn't worried about you getting ahead. People have been encouraged to be selfish for some decades, but if they look past the end of their nose and come to understand the game theory of their position, they will unionise over such issues and demonise scabs.
    Doing a trial is a good way to gain experience. It looks better on your CV than not having it.
    For skilled jobs, you need an education and experience. Who willl give you a job without experience? No one.
    Another nice speech about game theory, lovely; Doesn't change the fact that doing a trial is better than sitting on your arse watching Jeremy Kyle.

    The "cuck" is the person who would prefer to sit there watching Jeremy Kyle rather than doing a trial. Fine by me-the government will force you on to workfare anyway; much longer than three days and no chance of a job at the end of it.

    (Original post by voiceofreason234)
    Depends on the place. I interpreted it as that I wasn't a boring kiss-ass who would sit in the office until 7pm like everyone else - which is something to be proud of.

    Don't knock it until you've tried it!

    I was fire way back in 2013. Have another job now.
    A woman who gets ****ed by several guys a day, with the cocks going in every of her orifices which you will later use...and pay huge amounts for the priviledge...
    No thanks.

    I'm glad you commented. Your attitude (proud of using hookers and getting fired) perfectly represents what I think about the anti-trial people; giving political reasons about unions, blah blah blah. They are actually just work-shy and looking for an excuse.

    Again, (this part not directed at you); nice speeches coming through here. Game theory, unions, all the good stuff. The real world politics of the UK, the general public, are happy to see you on workfare. Trial or workfare? Your choice. The public don't give a crap about all your ramblings. Earn or learn, that is what you must be doing.
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    No. That's taking the mick.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    For skilled jobs, you need an education and experience. Who willl give you a job without experience? No one.
    Every graduate job out there? I know people in all kinds of professions, from accountants and lawyers to software engineers and people in property/construction, etc. and not a single one ever had to do an unpaid trial.

    I think the key point is that the real choice is not between doing an unpaid trial or taking benefits and sitting on your arse, it's between taking a job with a company that demands you work for three days without pay, vs taking one with a company that doesn't. And the latter choice is better for all of us.

    Even OP found another job without having to give up her time for free within a couple of days of posting this thread!!
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    (Original post by e aí rapaz)
    Every graduate job out there? I know people in all kinds of professions, from accountants and lawyers to software engineers and people in property/construction, etc. and not a single one ever had to do an unpaid trial.
    Some will need a trial, some won't. If you have the choice beween a trial and a paid one, take the latter.
    If the choice is between watching Jeremy Kyle or trial take the trial.
    So complicated this-take the best option for your CV.
    I think the key point is that the real choice is not between doing an unpaid trial or taking benefits and sitting on your arse, it's between taking a job with a company that demands you work for three days without pay, vs taking one with a company that doesn't. And the latter choice is better for all of us.
    How is it? The choice IS NOT between that. At the time of posting the OP had a trial or nothing. My advice? Take the trial. If the other interview comes up-go to it. You are entitled to. If another job comes up-go to it if you want.
    The key point is that you always maximise your employment opportunities; if the choice is between paid or unpaid get paid. If the choice is between trial and nothing, take the one that may see you get a job rather than workfare.
    Again, so complicated.

    Even OP found another job without having to give up her time for free within a couple of days of posting this thread!!
    Another person who seems to think taking up a trial is some firm commitment from you. What the reasons these people on here have for that I will never know. (Perhaps being lazy and finding any excuse to avoid being proactive).

    Earn or learn, it is that simple.
    Ideally earn and learn.
    If not that, one or the other.
    If not that, at least learn. Trial or otherwise.
    If that fails, waiting for Jeremy Kyle to come on doesn't count as an option. Well, on here it does. The general public don't see it like that though as I have said above.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    Another person who seems to think taking up a trial is some firm commitment from you. What the reasons these people on here have for that I will never know. (Perhaps being lazy and finding any excuse to avoid being proactive).

    Earn or learn, it is that simple.
    Ideally earn and learn.
    If not that, one or the other.
    If not that, at least learn. Trial or otherwise.
    If that fails, waiting for Jeremy Kyle to come on doesn't count as an option. Well, on here it does. The general public don't see it like that though as I have said above.
    We are all going to keep going round in circles with this topic.

    I'll remind some people of the facts...

    1. I have explained before - this company, is known for taking people on during there busy retail period, on a supposed trail. Then ditching them. Therefore, they have abused not only legally by national minimum wage law - but peoples labour, time and confidence.

    2. Saying that you did an UNPAID trail is NOT a good idea, it is NOT something you would put on a CV. An employer (and this has happened to myself) will question why you didn't get taken on. It makes you look incompetent at best. You wouldn't list your unsuccessful interviews, so you would not list your unsuccessful unpaid trails either.

    3. People who don't do unpaid trails for days on, don't typically lack a work ethic, they have ETHIC, and know when something reeks of exploitation.

    4. I doubt I would have been able to perform well at my interview , having just done an unpaid shift, I was able to spend lots of time researching the company, and going over different questions - I would have been tired and not very confident after working so long for free. I wasn't watching Jeremy kyle -your generalising job seekers, I was researching and planning - and this is why I was successful at getting a PAID job.

    5. I also have a friend who works in law, and they believe the company is breaking minimum wage rules! and that 3 days unpaid trail is excessive and unfair on the people who take it up.

    6. I had years of various retail experience. earn or learn you say. learning what? unpacking boxes, till work, stuff I'm very familiar with already. It takes an hour at best to know a till system - not 3 days.

    Think up a witty comeback, get personal again if you like, but I'm done now. :heart::h:
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    (Original post by SuperWolfPaws)
    We are all going to keep going round in circles with this topic.

    I'll remind some people of the facts...

    1. I have explained before - this company, is known for taking people on during there busy retail period, on a supposed trail. Then ditching them. Therefore, they have abused not only legally by national minimum wage law - but peoples labour, time and confidence.

    2. Saying that you did an UNPAID trail is NOT a good idea, it is NOT something you would put on a CV. An employer (and this has happened to myself) will question why you didn't get taken on. It makes you look incompetent at best. You wouldn't list your unsuccessful interviews, so you would not list your unsuccessful unpaid trails either.
    You will learn more doing the trial than sitting at home doing nothing.

    3. People who don't do unpaid trails for days on, don't typically lack a work ethic, they have ETHIC, and know when something reeks of exploitation.
    Three days is exploitation? Really? The person who thinks a three day trial is exploitation is the one with the problem, not the people who see it as ok. I mean look at some of the responses on here; comparing a three day trial as being worse than prostitution.

    4. I doubt I would have been able to perform well at my interview , having just done an unpaid shift, I was able to spend lots of time researching the company, and going over different questions - I would have been tired and not very confident after working so long for free. I wasn't watching Jeremy kyle -your generalising job seekers, I was researching and planning - and this is why I was successful at getting a PAID job.
    Researching for a job doesn't take that long. Even for educated jobs for younger people (we aren't going to be high level management or anything) reading the annual report, its competitors, its products etc takes a few hours. Nothing that can't be done in an evening or two. And that is for jobs in accountancy for example-I doubt retail will be that fussy about you knowing huge amounts about their business.

    5. I also have a friend who works in law, and they believe the company is breaking minimum wage rules! and that 3 days unpaid trail is excessive and unfair on the people who take it up.
    Great. Get your lawyer to sue them then. I mean if they are such evil people exploiting people rather than just saying "I have a lawyer friend" actually do something about it. Another lawyer on here agreed with what I was saying.
    The basic concept of law (your friend will know) is innocent until proven guilty. So ever prove them guilty or stop saying they are.

    6. I had years of various retail experience. earn or learn you say. learning what? unpacking boxes, till work, stuff I'm very familiar with already. It takes an hour at best to know a till system - not 3 days.

    Think up a witty comeback, get personal again if you like, but I'm done now. :heart::h:
    Think up any excuse you like, get in denial if you like, it doesn't matter. The people on here;
    1) Say they won't take the job due to their principles and moral values.
    2) However, their strong condemnation of such businesses do not actually involve what a normal person would expect. You see, if they really believed the law was being broken wouldn't these principles, morally decent, ethical people get this company in front of the courts? No win no fee companies are all around us. So essentially they wont' take it due to their moral values, but these moral values actually mean that rather than end the supposed injustice they just whine about it. This is despite there being a free way to challenge these companies in the courts.

    The only conclusion I can see from this is; a) it isn't really exploitation and these people know it. They are just coming up with excuses. Or b) They are just too lazy to do anything about it. I mean they dislike these companies so much, thinking them worse than pimps as stated above, thinking they treat people like "disposable garbage", are certain they have a legal case...then decide they can't be arsed I guess.

    My personal view is a mix of a) and b)-they know it isn't exploitation and they are a little bit laid back when it comes to improving their CV.
 
 
 
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