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    (Original post by Andy98)
    Oh I'm much better looking than Aph

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    pic or it didn't happen
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    (Original post by balanced)
    I don't think the minimum wage is authoritarian and I agree with you, but I believe that a good economy leads to a good society.
    Minimum wage is definitely authoritarian. You're asking individuals and private businesses to pay people the wage you want them to pay.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Minimum wage is definitely authoritarian. You're asking individuals and private businesses to pay people the wage you want them to pay.
    I want businesses and individuals to pay people as much as is humanly possible for them to, the point of the minimum wage is to make sure that workers aren't being exploited by employers for cheap labour. It's libertarian if you look at it from the point of view of the workforce.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    I want businesses and individuals to pay people as much as is humanly possible for them to, the point of the minimum wage is to make sure that workers aren't being exploited by employers for cheap labour. It's libertarian if you look at it from the point of view of the workforce.
    That's really not libertarian. From the point of view of the workforce, you also are restricting their freedom to charge less so they can be more competitive against other people.

    But the fundamental thing is that you cannot really say anything's libertarian if it involves the state controlling what could have been freely decided by the market.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    pic or it didn't happen
    Hahaha, remind me later

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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Minimum wage is definitely authoritarian. You're asking individuals and private businesses to pay people the wage you want them to pay.
    I guess however it also protects the freedom of workers by giving them money allowing them to afford a child etc.
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    (Original post by balanced)
    I guess however it also protects the freedom of workers by giving them money allowing them to afford a child etc.
    Does it change the fact that it's the state dictating what private businesses and individuals should do?
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    (Original post by balanced)
    I guess however it also protects the freedom of workers by giving them money allowing them to afford a child etc.
    Irrelevant, those freedoms aren't really freedoms and are not enabled via a minimum wage, which is ultimately protectionism for the worker; illiberal and authoritarian

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Irrelevant, those freedoms aren't really freedoms and are not enabled via a minimum wage, which is ultimately protectionism for the worker; illiberal and authoritarian

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    But necessary none the less, in my opinion of course.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    But necessary none the less, in my opinion of course.
    What is necessary for what how?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What is necessary for what how?

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    The minimum wage as a protection for workers
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    The minimum wage as a protection for workers
    Did I not just declare it a protectionist policy?

    It's also not necessary for some, and not protective for others

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Did I not just declare it a protectionist policy?

    It's also not necessary for some, and not protective for others

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    Yes, and I agreed with you.

    But for those who need it, it's there.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Yes, and I agreed with you.

    But for those who need it, it's there.
    And then comes up the questionof need

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And then comes up the questionof need

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    Well in life one normally needs a job to live, if they can't get paid enough then they can't live, it's an employer's obligation to pay their staff a decent wage. That being said there are plenty of scenarios where an employer can pay less than the minimum wage in certain circumstances (voluntary work, internships, apprenticeships).
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Well in life one normally needs a job to live, if they can't get paid enough then they can't live, it's an employer's obligation to pay their staff a decent wage. That being said there are plenty of scenarios where an employer can pay less than the minimum wage in certain circumstances (voluntary work, internships, apprenticeships).
    It's the employer's obligation? Only because the law declares so. And a job is not a necessary condition, nor is it even a sufficient condition.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It's the employer's obligation? Only because the law declares so. And a job is not a necessary condition, nor is it even a sufficient condition.

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    Not everyone can claim benefits, not everyone has savings to live on, therefore some either work or are in destitution. The fact one must be paid to work shows that it's not often all that voluntary, most people work because they have no choice but to, it's therefore the employer's duty to honour their side of the deal, and the minimum wage makes sure that they do.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It's the employer's obligation? Only because the law declares so. And a job is not a necessary condition, nor is it even a sufficient condition.

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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Not everyone can claim benefits, not everyone has savings to live on, therefore some either work or are in destitution. The fact one must be paid to work shows that it's not often all that voluntary, most people work because they have no choice but to, it's therefore the employer's duty to honour their side of the deal, and the minimum wage makes sure that they do.
    Could you two take this to the bar? It's highly off topic
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Not everyone can claim benefits, not everyone has savings to live on, therefore some either work or are in destitution. The fact one must be paid to work shows that it's not often all that voluntary, most people work because they have no choice but to, it's therefore the employer's duty to honour their side of the deal, and the minimum wage makes sure that they do.
    Reply to this in the bar given you aren't on mobile

    That does not change the fact it is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition. And the only obligations are the legal ones, and given we're talking about without the legal ones, moral

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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Does it change the fact that it's the state dictating what private businesses and individuals should do?
    No, so I guess it is authoritarian however I'm fine with it because it protects the freedoms of more workers than there are business owners if that makes sense.
 
 
 
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