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Government Statement on the Paris Terrorist Attacks watch

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    (Original post by Ali1302)
    Nonsense, what stopped these terrorists from smuggling weapons into france? If one of the restaurant managers happened to have a gun stashed away inside say an AK 47 or a semi automatic weapon a lot of civilian lives could have been spared. Liberals and socialists think it's good that we remain completely defenseless. We need to have a right to bear arms in this country and protect ourselves.
    Having the public armed works so well in the states...

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Are you saying Hitler had the right idea?

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    No absolutely not ! , I am Saying that we need to try and remove extremists ( religious extremists i.e ISIS , Boko Haran ETC Out of the Middle east , we have been passively tolerate towards extremist in the middle east for to long , we have been sitting on the sidelines occasionally sending a Tornado aircraft over to bomb isis strongholds , we need to fight these extremists and remove the poisonous ideology they have
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    How else as citizens are we might to defend ourselves against Shia Muslims who hate the west . We should have the right to self defence
    Arming citizens is a stupid idea. Studies have shown that people without significant training are clumsy when handling firearms (see: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-self-defense/) and the average Joe is most likely too trigger happy. More innocent people will be murdered/killed by accident than those who would be saved.



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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    No absolutely not ! , I am Saying that we need to try and remove extremists ( religious extremists i.e ISIS , Boko Haran ETC Out of the Middle east , we have been passively tolerate towards extremist in the middle east for to long , we have been sitting on the sidelines occasionally sending a Tornado aircraft over to bomb isis strongholds , we need to fight these extremists and remove the poisonous ideology they have
    So you're saying that we need to get rid of these religions, but also that we do not? By your statement that Islam should be removed because it is a violent religion, you would support Hitler's attempts to wipe out the Jews, after all, that's a rather violent religion too

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Having the public armed works so well in the states...

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    Yes, it does. Although incidents of gun violence are more prevalent in the United States it still has one of the lowest homicide rates globally. I'm a firm believer in the statement "guns don't kill people, people kill people". In fact when you look at violent crime rates you would see that the EU crime rate exceeds that of the U.S. We cannot compromise our rights and people in this country should have a right to bear arms and defend themselves.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    You're stretching it with Buddhism slightly.
    (Shhh!)


    (Original post by Ali1302)
    If the citizens of france had the right to bear arms then this tragedy could have been avoided or at least the number of casualties would have been lower. The prohibition of weapons has left the civilian population in Europe practically defenseless. What would you do if someone decides to pull out a knife or a gun at you? Run? Hide? We as citizens need to have the right to defend ourselves and not simply rely on the authorities to protect us.
    Exactly my thinking. My cousin in Florida has a concealed carry permit, a guy walked into a store he was in and shot the owner while he was robbing it, so he pulled out his gun and shot him, saving the owner's life since he was about to shoot him again.
    Another woman was about to be attacked by a mental guy with an axe outside her door; she was on the phone to the police but they were too far away: she pulled out her husband's shotgun.

    Stuff like this happens everywhere, at least Americans have the opportunity to defend themselves.
    Although if this happened they'd need strict regulations like they do in GB and Eire but not as strict - somewhere between GB/EI's and the USA's.

    One of the eyewitnesses said all he could do was watch one of the terrorists shooting into the restaurant: if that had happened in "Murica" at least 10 people would've been there with concealed carry permits.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So you're saying that we need to get rid of these religions, but also that we do not? By your statement that Islam should be removed because it is a violent religion, you would support Hitler's attempts to wipe out the Jews, after all, that's a rather violent religion too

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    Lets not invoke feeling of the holocaust or discuss Judaism which I doubt any of you have an understanding of as a religion or ideology. Also the statements made were about extremists not muslims in general.
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    (Original post by Ali1302)
    Yes, it does. Although incidents of gun violence are more prevalent in the United States it still has one of the lowest homicide rates globally. I'm a firm believer in the statement "guns don't kill people, people kill people". In fact when you look at violent crime rates you would see that the EU crime rate exceeds that of the U.S. We cannot compromise our rights and people in this country should have a right to bear arms and defend themselves.
    Can you tell me when the homicide rates crashed in the US and/or skyrocketed everywhere else, it has one of the highest in the " western world ". Go north over the border into Canada and the homicide rate drops by almost 70%; jump across to Europe and much of it has only 20pc, or less, jump to Japan, only 6pc of the us rate. When it comes to violent crime the definitions of the FBI and Home Office are very different, with a hell of a lot more offences counting in Britain.

    (Original post by Ali1302)
    Lets not invoke feeling of the holocaust or discuss Judaism which I doubt any of you have an understanding of as a religion or ideology. Also the statements made were about extremists not muslims in general.
    Wait, so " Islam needs wiping off the face of the earth" on the basis of it "not being a peaceful" religion isn't talking about ALL Muslims? Are you saying that those who aren't extremists aren't Muslims?

    And do you want to play the game today whereby you tell me how hateful and violent the Koran is and then I throw quotes from the Tanakh back at you, or are you going to run away from that too?

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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    (Shhh!)




    Exactly my thinking. My cousin in Florida has a concealed carry permit, a guy walked into a store he was in and shot the owner while he was robbing it, so he pulled out his gun and shot him, saving the owner's life since he was about to shoot him again.
    Another woman was about to be attacked by a mental guy with an axe outside her door; she was on the phone to the police but they were too far away: she pulled out her husband's shotgun.

    Stuff like this happens everywhere, at least Americans have the opportunity to defend themselves.
    Although if this happened they'd need strict regulations like they do in GB and Eire but not as strict - somewhere between GB/EI's and the USA's.

    One of the eyewitnesses said all he could do was watch one of the terrorists shooting into the restaurant: if that had happened in "Murica" at least 10 people would've been there with concealed carry permits.
    It depends how strict you're thinking. Unfortunately with choices like this we do have to be horribly cold-hearted and pragmatic sometimes, moreso than real life politicians can admit to being. You're right - if we had more people carrying guns, lives would have been saved on Friday. But if more people had guns I'd definitely argue that far more would die in other incidents. You'd also massively increase the risk of disorganised lone-wolf terrorism which is actually going to be harder to prevent when a pissed-off bigot with mental health issues can pick up his weapon and lay waste to the nearest shopping mall. Even background checks can't prevent this with the terrible state of mental health treatment and diagnoses in this country.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    (Shhh!)




    Exactly my thinking. My cousin in Florida has a concealed carry permit, a guy walked into a store he was in and shot the owner while he was robbing it, so he pulled out his gun and shot him, saving the owner's life since he was about to shoot him again.
    Another woman was about to be attacked by a mental guy with an axe outside her door; she was on the phone to the police but they were too far away: she pulled out her husband's shotgun.

    Stuff like this happens everywhere, at least Americans have the opportunity to defend themselves.
    Although if this happened they'd need strict regulations like they do in GB and Eire but not as strict - somewhere between GB/EI's and the USA's.

    One of the eyewitnesses said all he could do was watch one of the terrorists shooting into the restaurant: if that had happened in "Murica" at least 10 people would've been there with concealed carry permits.
    And why do you think the guy robbing the shop had a gun, couldn't possibly because he could just go to a shop and buy it or anything. And concealed carry is one of the stupidist things if it's supposed to be a deterrent "I have a gun so you won't attack me, but I won't let you know I do, so it will still deter you!"
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    No absolutely not ! , I am Saying that we need to try and remove extremists ( religious extremists i.e ISIS , Boko Haran ETC Out of the Middle east , we have been passively tolerate towards extremist in the middle east for to long , we have been sitting on the sidelines occasionally sending a Tornado aircraft over to bomb isis strongholds , we need to fight these extremists and remove the poisonous ideology they have
    And support a Western backed leader of the new Middle East, thus creating a new anti-Western opposition?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And why do you think the guy robbing the shop had a gun, couldn't possibly because he could just go to a shop and buy it or anything. And concealed carry is one of the stupidist things if it's supposed to be a deterrent "I have a gun so you won't attack me, but I won't let you know I do, so it will still deter you!"
    That's the problem with anti-gun arguments: criminals do not go through legal channels to get unregistered weapons - they use illegal ways. That's why they're called CRIMINALS.
    Also, criminals with a record can't buy weapons, so they're forced to illegally buy them.
    If you get rid of legally owning guns, you won't decrease the amount of criminals with guns - they'll just have an easier time committing it.

    And if you think concealed carry is stupid, look at the facts:
    - After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below it.
    - In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.
    - States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.

    The concealed carry permit is a deterrent because it puts doubt and worry into the criminal's mind: that's why house burglary rates are low compared to Europe.
    Jack in the Box, a fast food chain, introduced gun-free zones. Within 2 months, they'd had 6 armed robberies in one store. 66% of US police chiefs have found that citizens carrying concealed firearms reduce rates of violent crime.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    That's the problem with anti-gun arguments: criminals do not go through legal channels to get unregistered weapons - they use illegal ways. That's why they're called CRIMINALS.
    Also, criminals with a record can't buy weapons, so they're forced to illegally buy them.
    If you get rid of legally owning guns, you won't decrease the amount of criminals with guns - they'll just have an easier time committing it.

    And if you think concealed carry is stupid, look at the facts:
    - After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below it.
    - In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.
    - States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.

    The concealed carry permit is a deterrent because it puts doubt and worry into the criminal's mind: that's why house burglary rates are low compared to Europe.
    Jack in the Box, a fast food chain, introduced gun-free zones. Within 2 months, they'd had 6 armed robberies in one store. 66% of US police chiefs have found that citizens carrying concealed firearms reduce rates of violent crime.
    Could you please pull up stats showing that the use of firearms by criminals is no lower in countries with stricter gun laws than those with less restriction?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Could you please pull up stats showing that the use of firearms by criminals is no lower in countries with stricter gun laws than those with less restriction?
    Nowhere have I implied that I endorse low restriction of gun law - the gun laws in America are far from ideal.
    I have already stated gun laws should be restricted but to a slightly lower extent than that of the UK & Ireland.
    Icelandic gun law is decent, yet the armed crime rate is very low.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Nowhere have I implied that I endorse low restriction of gun law - the gun laws in America are far from ideal.
    I have already stated gun laws should be restricted but to a slightly lower extent than that of the UK & Ireland.
    Icelandic gun law is decent, yet the armed crime rate is very low.
    But you did imply that restricting legal gun ownership does nothing to the amount of crimes committed with firearms and, if anything, increases it, if this is the case then surely you can present evidence.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    But you did imply that restricting legal gun ownership does nothing to the amount of crimes committed with firearms and, if anything, increases it, if this is the case then surely you can present evidence.
    This is wrong:
    I am against the anti-gun fanatics who want to get rid of gun ownership - this would only increase gun crime in the USA.

    I was defending the concealed carry permit:
    - After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below it.
    - In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.
    - States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    This is wrong:
    I am against the anti-gun fanatics who want to get rid of gun ownership - this would only increase gun crime in the USA.

    I was defending the concealed carry permit:
    - After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below it.
    - In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.
    - States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.
    The rape figures in particular strike me as untrustworthy - even in Texas I highly doubt the majority of rapes are comitted at gunpoint, let alone nearly all of them. I'd say this suggests either a) Texas decided to stop recording most reported incidents or b) some unrelated factor was causing both rape and crime in general to fall independently of concealed carry laws.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    criminals do not go through legal channels to get unregistered weapons - they use illegal ways.
    If you get rid of legally owning guns, you won't decrease the amount of criminals with guns - they'll just have an easier time committing it.
    So you deny saying that even though the record is there? If what you say is true then you will have a negative correlation between gun ownership and gun crime, get us the data.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So you deny saying that even though the record is there? If what you say is true then you will have a negative correlation between gun ownership and gun crime, get us the data.
    In that I was referring to the USA in particular. I apologise if I did not make that clear.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    The rape figures in particular strike me as untrustworthy - even in Texas I highly doubt the majority of rapes are comitted at gunpoint, let alone nearly all of them. I'd say this suggests either a) Texas decided to stop recording most reported incidents or b) some unrelated factor was causing both rape and crime in general to fall independently of concealed carry laws.
    Yeah, the rapes might not be related to the CCP. I'd say it was that women just stopped reporting rape because they were embarrassed. Although I'd say CCPs were the main cause of the other falls in crime rates.
 
 
 
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